The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[GlenR]

Originally Posted by Post Prod

It bothers me simply because if those voices demanding one disc were loud enough, studios might want to shy away from putting quality first.
Granted with the LOTR EE trilogy, as long as PJ is alive, that will probably not happen. But in general terms it does advocate a trend from quality and towards convenience. Which is the exact same trend of moving away from physical media to digital distribution.
I have nothing against digital copies or having things on one disc. I just want the best quality possible.

I don't support blu-ray because I like Sony. I don't support it because I like the name, or even care about physical formats. I support it because as of right now, it is the medium that offers the highest potential for quality.

Expecting a proportional quality jump (in relation to increased capacity)from DVD to blu-ray seems like a pretty normal expectation. So seeing people get upset about this being on 2 discs, after the DVDs were on two, just confuses me.

If you like blu-ray because it offers more capacity and you're more jazzed about fitting the most stuff on one disc, then fine. I recall a lot of people being confused when TV shows first came out on blu-ray. why entire seasons weren't put on one disc. So I know these people exist. I just disagree with them about what validates blu-rays existence.

I'd have to agree with you. If the choice is between attaining the maximum image quality possible and having to change a disc then I'm lost as to why anyone other than someone with a physical disability would prefer the single disc. I think this complaint and the color shift have more to do with people being mad about not getting EXACTLY what they wanted. The bottom line is if you don't like the two discs, the slight color shift ( barely noticeable on my equipment ) or that the features are on DVDs then don't buy it. You'd think Jackson and the studio had a gun to these people's heads forcing them to accept a move while taking money from their wallets.

My other head scratcher has to do with all these image comparisons. What are they comparing the image to? The theatrical Blu of Fellowship is already universally accepted as having lots of image issues and comparing it to the DVD is just plain dumb. Had I not seen the mountain of complaining about the color I never would have noticed. So now all these people have locked their minds so tightly into looking for flaws in the image they can no longer enjoy a great film. They'll never be happy and they did it to themselves.

[Eismagier]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

That's really good to know Penton, thank you. However, I remember an article here on BD.com a couple years ago from the BDA stating that BD discs over 50GB will never be approved for video use, so are they kinda throwing that out the window at this point now realizing that one BD50 is not ideal for films such as Gettysburg, Gods and Generals, and Return of the King extended?

IMO, they'd be stupid to allow for incompatible movie discs. Blu-ray has enough compatibility problems stemming from firmware updates (or lack thereof). Can you imagine the mess if they allowed movie BDs that rendered four generations of players useless?

[HD Goofnut]

Apparently this has become the new whine, moan, and groan thread. Well, at least between this and the Star Wars thread.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by vidjunkie

I get jokes just as well as the next guy, but you Sir like to stir the pot, and it shows in almost all your posts, just look at what you type here, and in the SW thread, jeez WTF is wrong some people.

I'm making a sarcastic statement meant to illustrate that people need to settle down and stop losing their minds because someone disagrees with them. Now people are defending the special features being on DVD as if wanting them to be on a Blu-ray, in a BLU-RAY SET is a personal attack on their religion or something. I see no reason to blindly love every aspect of this presentation. I can have issues with it and still enjoy it. It's not all 100% love, 100% hate, nothing in between. The world doesn't work like that (or at least I don't work like that). There is gray area.

As far as the joke part goes, well, you don't seem to "get jokes as well as the next guy" since you took my statement seriously and asked if I was a mod. Not an attack, just a statement of fact.

I'm not stirring the pot. The pot has long since been stirred, kicked, thrown in people's faces, used as a weapon. I think several people have been killed and stuffed into the pot during this debate. It's not "stirring the pot" to have a difference of opinion. This is not some totalitarian regime, and nobody needs to react to a difference in opinion over a bloody movie like it's the Israel v. Palestine conflict.

"WTF is wrong with people"? What, now you're saying something is wrong with me?

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Return Of The King FOTR flashback comparison pics for those interested in post 3543 (thanks 42041). Also check out post 3548 for an interesting split screen.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...07189&page=119

It is interesting just how much the green impacts not only the obvious parts of the picture such as shirts and skies, but also various colors

Since it has been pointed out that there is a difference in the vest color between the TE FotR and the TE RotK flashback scene it may not be the "smoking gun", but a quick sniff reveals that the gun has indeed been fired recently.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post20668197

[kurtlingle]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Larger capacity Blu-ray software for movies in the future is not to be absolutely ruled out, as it has been discussed by BDA members even prior to the LOTR EEs streeting….

https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post4859584

That is interesting that it's being considered. For a long time, the "official stance "was blu-ray movies would max at 50g (sounded like it was not worth the effort). Which, for most movies, is plenty - though TV shows could sure use the space.

How much effort is it and would the PS3, and other BD players be able to play larger disks?

[Velmeran]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

Orrrrrrrr.... you could ignore the complaining and stop complaining about it yourself... you're doing exactly what you are telling others to not do...

Originally Posted by vidjunkie

Who are you? are you a MOD here or something?

Just report it as trolling/flamebait and move on to let the mods deal with it.

Pretty sure that's what several BD.com powers-that-be have requested us to do in an effort to prevent this thread for derailing and spiraling out of control again.

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

That's really good to know Penton, thank you. However, I remember an article here on BD.com a couple years ago from the BDA stating that BD discs over 50GB will never be approved for video use, so are they kinda throwing that out the window at this point now realizing that one BD50 is not ideal for films such as Gettysburg, Gods and Generals, and Return of the King extended?

Pretty sure I recall that article, or a similar one in nature. Didn't the BDA say they wouldn't approve 100GB BD's because the early players wouldn't be capable of playing them?

[retablo]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

I just want to get an idea of whether people are really this adamant about accepting "directors intent" as the be-all and end-all. I think Friedkin's revisionism to The French Connection is a cautionary tale of accepting "directors intent" as the gospel, but I want to hear what others have to say about it.
[/SPOILER]

The French Connection changes present en entirely different problem though. Colors came out smeary, especially with the reds bleeding into other colors. So in addition to changing the look, the actual QUALITY has been diminished. That's not the case in FOTR.

So, yes, I'm for director's intent as long as its still done with quality.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by retablo

The French Connection changes present en entirely different problem though. Colors came out smeary, especially with the reds bleeding into other colors. So in addition to changing the look, the actual QUALITY has been diminished. That's not the case in FOTR.

So, yes, I'm for director's intent as long as its still done with quality.

Quality has also been needlessly diminished with this release as well (apart from the blanket green tint which affects every color it interacts with) - Blacks are horribly crushed, shadow detail is noticeably lost and at times it becomes much more than just a minor distraction (like in Moria, for example.) Also, it could very well be tied to the green tint issue.

[DarkDune]

Personally, 2 discs is MUCH better for PQ and AQ. Don't see why that trade-off isn't worth it!

[hijeff1]

I haven't really noticed any green tint issue, but if New Line admits to a issue will they offer a trade program to get "fixed" blu ray discs?

[Post Prod]

Originally Posted by retablo

The French Connection changes present en entirely different problem though. Colors came out smeary, especially with the reds bleeding into other colors. So in addition to changing the look, the actual QUALITY has been diminished. That's not the case in FOTR.

So, yes, I'm for director's intent as long as its still done with quality.

I take it on a case by case basis. Some revisionism I like, some not.

Blade Runner Final Cut is an example (for me) where it worked wonderfully.

Adding Jar Jar to Jedi would be an example of where it doesn't work as well. (for me).

Personally I put this FOTR revisionism on the "not that big of a deal" side of the scale. I'm not terribly fond of it, but it certainly doesn't ruin the film for me.

I respect the creators right to be able to go back and make changes. But I'm still me, so I might not like them. and if they're severe enough to impact how I feel about the movie (Star Wars) I'd like the option of a quality copy of the original version.

This is all kinds of weird territory though, because the EE of LOTR themselves are revisionist. It's the altering of alternate cuts of a film. So if you're really dogmatic about the issue one way or the other, it's a bit of pickle to wrap your head around.

[dcowboy7]

I like that its on 2 discs but i thought that 1 of the selling points of bluray was they touted that it was big enough to hold a movie.

They shouldnt have made that 1 of the points then in the first place.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Quality has also been needlessly diminished with this release as well (apart from the blanket green tint which affects every color it interacts with) - Blacks are horribly crushed, shadow detail is noticeably lost and at times it becomes much more than just a minor distraction (like in Moria, for example.) Also, it could very well be tied to the green tint issue.

I don't see colors bleeding though. So I dont see the same issues.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

I like that its on 2 discs but i thought that 1 of the selling points of bluray was they touted that it was big enough to hold a movie.

They shouldnt have made that 1 of the points then in the first place.

That was never one of the selling points. There would have been no need for it, that was already virtually standard practice on the preceding format. DVD's also had entire movies on a single disc, how many films needed multiple discs on DVD? Very, very few. That was one of the main selling points of DVD, though (because of Laserdisc flipping, etc.) It's not like chater skipping was a selling point of BD either, because that was already standard practice on DVD (but it was definitely one for DVD's because of VHS, etc.)

The selling points were the ability to provide films in unbelievable quality (full 1080p24 on the video side and lossless on the audio side) that simply wasn't possible on the DVD format.... and to a lesser extent the interactive capabilities (BD Live, streamlined pop-up menus, etc.) That's exactly that this is delivering, the maximum amount of quality. If given a choice between each film on a single disc with a lesser quality and each spread across two in order to maximize quality, there's no doubt I'd go for the latter. Superior quality is what BD is all about.

Originally Posted by retablo

I don't see colors bleeding though. So I dont see the same issues.

I said nothing about colors bleeding through. You said there weren't "quality" issues affecting the PQ, there are. There are serious contrast issues and detail lost in dark portions of the picture (and it might be tied to the green tint.)

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

I said nothing about colors bleeding through. You said there weren't "quality" issues affecting the PQ, there are. There are serious contrast issues and detail lost in dark portions of the picture (and it might be tied to the green tint.)

I don't think there ARE PQ or "quality" issues. Therefore, I'm all for it.

As Ken wrote "The image is rich and bold, primaries are tenacious, black levels are deeper than ever, the overall palette remains lush and lively, and detail is excellent." And I agree. I see no massivly horrendous crush, although its fun to use such harsh descriptions in exaggeration when in reality it's minor at best.

[4K display]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

That was never one of the selling points.

Disc capacity was a huge selling point for BD.

[MEB]

Here's a fun one boys and girls!!! The two links below are screen shot images of the same scene, one from FOTR EE Blu-ray and the other from ROTK EE Blu-ray. The ROTK image is a flashback scene.

FOTR EE Blu-ray: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/fotr6.jpg/

ROTK EE Blu-ray: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/rotk6.jpg/

Take a look at Merry's vest in each image. Hmmm....

One fellow combined the two halves of the shot of Merry into a split-screen comparison. ROTK EE flashback image on the left, FOTR EE image on the right:



Here is a publicity still of Merry:



Ignoring the fact that the cloaks shifted from grey to green (and got much darker) between the ROTK flashback image and the FOTR image, why the hell did Merry's vest shift from yellow to orange?

As an experiment, I loaded the ROTK image into Photoshop and opened up the Hue/Saturation tool. I then slid the Master Hue control to the left (negative side). At about -30, Merry's vest was no longer yellow and it was now orange. But guess what else happened? At -30 on the Master Hue slider both Merry and Pippin's cloaks had shifted from grey to green!! Surprise!

Now, I'm not suggesting that it was just a simple hue change that screwed up the color timing on FOTR EE. Moving the slider to -30 also made the hobbit's faces a bit too magenta. But there is absolutely a link between shifting that vest from yellow to orange and a resulting shift toward green in other parts of the image.

Mark

[Post Prod]

Do people read this thread or just post in it?

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by 4K display

Disc capacity was a huge selling point for BD.

Yeah, because it was a means to an end. The "end" being the maximization of quality, not to "Fit a movie on a single disc." DVD's already did just that, there would be no need for that to be advertised. It was standard practice for films to come on a single DVD, just as it is standard practice for films to come on a single BD (there are only a tiny amount of exceptions on both due to some presentations having unusually long running times.) The purpose of the space was to fit the films onto a BD with an HD resolution and an audio track that was entirely lossless, something not possible on DVD. Thus, it was advertised as being a vast improvement over the DVD medium, if they said it was to fit 1 film on 1 disc it would've made no sense whatsoever as a selling point as that was already standard practice with the prior format. Anyway, this is personally something I have no interest in arguing about, so whatever anyone likes to believe is fine by me.