The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by frozenhamster

@headgeek666 "Ok folks, Peter Jackson is contacting Andrew Lesnie re: the Green tint issues allegedly with the FOTR:EE Blu... Hopefully this is fixed."

That's the word from Harry Knowles.

Best news I've heard since the bittersweet green screen caps were leaked.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by mredman

The PQ is incredible. PJ is gonna say the same thing.

Everyone is on the same page then. The PQ IS incredible. The green tint, not so much. If this is the new look for the film, so be it. But I and many others want to hear it from the horse's mouth.

[42041]

Gladiator has altered colors, it does not have a consistent and strange off-color tint. There's a difference. Gladiator looks like deliberate artistic choice, this looks more like the colorist's monitor was on the fritz.

[frozenhamster]

Originally Posted by mredman

And you believe him. Good god man you are up in arms about nothing here, there is so little green tint you hardly see it. You guys that complain makes it sound like it is in ALL the scenes while it is in so few. Why didn't you complain about Gladiator remaster for the color issue it was worse yet the remaster got glowing reviews. And this will as well. And all you nitpickers will just stand there like fools. Because there is nothing wrong with them.

The PQ is incredible. PJ is gonna say the same thing.

I'm not personally up in arms. If all we ever got was this greenified version I'd be perfectly happy. It's a huge step up from the Theatrical Blu-ray.

And the Gladiator Blu-ray is a slightly different scenario. That one was fully regraded. The colours in general look totally different. You could argue that it shouldn't have been changed or that it looks worse or whatever. That's fine. This fellowship release seems less like an intentional bit of regrading, and more like a regrading error or some laziness creeping into the process.

If PJ says to WB that they need to release a corrected disc and they do I will be happy. If he doesn't mind the green, I don't really care much either. I ain't losing sleep over it, and I can't wait to pick up this set one way or another.

[P@t_Mtl]

I enjoy green tea so I will be find with this release

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Dont get me wrong...

It is difficult not to.

You have gone on to express extreme disappointment judging the quality of the presentation only by looking at various screencaptures. There are two issues here:

1. You do not know with absolute certainty that these screencaptures are in any way representative of what is stored on the disc, especially in regard to color timing - and by default, I don't think that it is wise to form a conclusive opinion, as you apparently have, only by looking at screencaptures.

2. You do not know with absolutely certainty that the color timing of the old releases absolutely, positively, 100% reflects the director's intent.

Now, with this in mind, I believe that the wise thing to do is wait for a comprehensive review, and at least some reliable info clarifying why there are color discrepancies between the two releases.

Pro-B

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

1. You do not know with absolute certainty that these screencaptures are in any way representative of what is stored on the disc, especially in regard to color timing - and by default, I don't think that it is wise to form a conclusive opinion, as you apparently have, only by looking at screencaptures.

Many of the screen captures now have come directly from the Blu Rays and quite a few people who have them in their possession have confirmed the green tint issues. Video from the Blu Ray has also been uploaded online confirming the new greenish tint.

2. You do not know with absolutely certainty that the color timing of the old releases absolutely, positively, 100% reflects the director's intent.

We do know that the original HD master used for the DVDs was intended as an archival master of the film around the time it was released theatrically. The theatrical Blu Ray's coloring is almost the same coloring found in the DVDs. Are you also going to try and claim the fade to white in the screen cap posted numerous times throughout this thread was always supposed to look lime green? Also, The Two Towers and The Return of the King EE Blu Rays reportedly are not experiencing this green push and reflect their DVD and theatrical Blu Ray counterparts. There is more evidence supporting the old releases were the director's color intent than the other way around.

Now, with this in mind, I believe that the wise thing to do is wait for a comprehensive review, and at least some reliable info clarifying why there are color discrepancies between the two releases.

Many of us complaining are in total agreement with this. We would love to hear why there are color discrepancies between this and every other release of this film.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Do you even know what post I was referring to?????

I was not even commenting to your post in that reply! I was commenting to what Cook had to say. Maybe you should read a bit more carefully dont you think?

Long work day tom.....off to bed.......its been fun. See you tom......

Then I will reiterate what he said: Can you read? I was talking about FOTR. No where in that post did I mention or reference TTT or ROTK.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

We do know that the original HD master used for the DVDs was intended as an archival master of the film around the time it was released theatrically.

Originally Posted by greg_achen

The theatrical Blu Ray's coloring is almost the same coloring found in the DVDs.

Originally Posted by greg_achen

There is more evidence supporting the old releases were the director's color intent than the other way around.

It is admirable that you are so passionate about these films, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Pro-B

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

It is admirable that you are so passionate about these films, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Pro-B

And your evidence to the contrary definitely proves me wrong. Oh wait...

Interview with Lord of the Rings DVD Producer Michael Pellerin

Read the interview.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Oh wait...

Read the interview.

I am well aware of the interview

The problem is that the interview actually rebuts every single claim you made earlier - which leads me to believe that you either did not read it in its entirety or are misinterpreting the info that is shared in it.

My advise remains the same.

Pro-B

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I am actually well aware of the interview

The problem is that the interview actually rebuts every single claim you made earlier - which leads me to believe that you either did not read it in its entirety or are misinterpreting the info that is shared in it.

My advise remains the same.

Pro-B

Oh really? Care to point out which parts discredit my claims?

Let me highlight some of the interview for you.

"Back when The Lord of the Rings films were made in 2001, 2002 and 2003, as part of the archiving process, HD masters were created for each of the three films when they originally debuted in cinemas. Evan Edelist, in charge of HD mastering for New Line Post Production, had helped institute this policy of mastering all new NL releases to HD for archival purposes back in the 90's and it was pretty much industry standard procedure by the time of LOTR. These are the HD masters that would have been used for mastering the DVDs, and broadcast masters for HD channels, etc. This was well before HD-DVD and the ultimate industry standard, Blu-ray, even came into being."

"Peter concurred that new HD masters were in order - and also wanted to do some tweaks to the color correction of the films as well. Andrew Lesnie, the films' director of photography, was brought in to help make these corrections, and help approve the new HD masters for BD. Once Andrew approved the masters, WHV moved into production on the discs."

The above quote is in reference to the theatrical editions Blu Ray release. Why then are the colors in this new EE Blu Ray so different from the theatrical Blu Rays? Shouldn't we have seen evidence of the originally intended green push in that release?

"I let Peter know I would try to lend a hand keeping an eye on the creation of the Theatrical BDs, because as no one from the original New Line DVD team was left, the team at Warner Home Video understandably couldn't be expected to know where all the elements are, or their history - and a certain amount of information naturally had the potential of getting lost in translation between New Line and WHV."

This seems to have been the case with the EE Blu Ray release. A green tint to Fellowship and recycled DVDs as extras. Way to go Warner Home Video.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Oh really? Care to point out which parts discredit my claims?

Yes I do.

1. According to the article, the master that was created was:

...for mastering the DVDs, and broadcast masters for HD channels, etc. This was well before HD-DVD and the ultimate industry standard, Blu-ray, even came into being.

.

And...

When Warner Home Video took over the New Line catalogue of titles, they were very eager to put LOTR out on Blu-ray. However, the original HD masters of LOTR were nearly a decade old at this point, and HD mastering technology had improved over the past 10 years - so the question was whether to release the old HD masters on BD as is - or create new ones.

And...

So, one of Mike Mulvihill's last goals while still in his position at New Line Home Entertainment was to create a test for Peter Jackson - comparing the old HD masters to new HD transfers for a clip from each of the three films - as a back-to-back comparison.

Peter concurred that new HD masters were in order - and also wanted to do some tweaks to the color correction of the films as well.

So, unlike your claims, clearly director Jackson intended some color corrections on the films, which may or may not be reflected by the new releases. Therefore, there are two issues here:

a) It does not appear that a master created with SDVD in mind reflected the director's intent in regard to how the films should appear in HD/Blu-ray, which the initial releases proved.
b) Clearly, there was a well documented desire to perform at least some color corrections.

2.

There were some discussions about a Box Set at that point, but as it is an ambitious project and as The Hobbit scripts were yet to be written and green-lit, which was the primary goal, it was decided, to table discussions regarding the Extended Editions and the Box Set for the time being. In the interim, the plan was to release the Theatrical Editions on HD with their existing supplemental materials as is.

That doesn't mean this was simply going to be a direct port over - nor that there wasn't a lot of work put into this release to make sure viewers were getting the best elements possible. This release also gave us the chance to correct several long-standing issues which had gone unaddressed since the original release of the DVDs.

The bolded part effectively disproves your claim that the SDVD master, which you are using to produce various flawed observations about the accuracy of the color timing, might have been definitive (so, the "archiving" claim goes right out the window). As does this statement:

In addition to creating the new HD masters and correcting the color issues, this new release allowed the opportunity to make a few other fixes and improvements as well.

[horizonline]

Must be hard to concentrate on this case after 3 days without sleep...!

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

So, unlike your claims, clearly director Jackson intended some color corrections on the films, which may or may not be reflected by the new releases.

I never said that he never intended some color corrections. I said the green tint found throughout this new release was never originally intended. Big difference. You are also ignoring a key part of the interview my friend, which is ironic because we used some of the same exact quotes.

"Peter concurred that new HD masters were in order - and also wanted to do some tweaks to the color correction of the films as well. Andrew Lesnie, the films' director of photography, was brought in to help make these corrections, and help approve the new HD masters for BD. Once Andrew approved the masters, WHV moved into production on the discs."

That quote, in its context, is referring to the THEATRICAL Blu Ray editions. Why then doesn't the Theatrical Blu Ray have ANY hint of the green push found in the new Extended Editions? Did Andrew Lesnie and Peter Jackson just now realize the green they always intended for the film has been missing this whole time? Right.

"That doesn't mean this was simply going to be a direct port over - nor that there wasn't a lot of work put into this release to make sure viewers were getting the best elements possible. This release also gave us the chance to correct several long-standing issues which had gone unaddressed since the original release of the DVDs."

The bolded part effectively disproves your claim that the SDVD master, which you are using to produce various flawed observations about the accuracy of the color timing, was indeed definitive. As does this statement:

"In addition to creating the new HD masters and correcting the color issues, this new release allowed the opportunity to make a few other fixes and improvements as well."

Once again he was referring to the THEATRICAL Blu Ray release of the films. If all these color issues were fixed, once again why is there no indication of a green tint in the THEATRICAL Blu Ray of which the interview is in reference to? Why is the theatrical edition of the Blu Ray also closer in color timing to the DVDs? Please explain that one to me.

[mixxed_up]

Here are some other comparisons. Looks very good with much more detail then the TEs, and without red tint. The green tint isn't so bad.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...he_rings_1_bd1

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

I never said that he never intended some color corrections. I said the green tint found throughout this new release was never originally intended.

Which, at this point, is absolutely incorrect - because you, or anyone else, clearly do not know what was approved and what came out of Warner Brothers; which is exactly why you have the following concern expressed below:

This release also gave us the chance to correct several long-standing issues which had gone unaddressed since the original release of the DVDs.

I let Peter know I would try to lend a hand keeping an eye on the creation of the Theatrical BDs, because as no one from the original New Line DVD team was left, the team at Warner Home Video understandably couldn't be expected to know where all the elements are, or their history - and a certain amount of information naturally had the potential of getting lost in translation between New Line and WHV.

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Big difference. You are also ignoring a key part of the interview my friend, which is ironic because we used some of the same exact quotes.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I pointed out the information that you are obviously misinterpreting, and advised that you and other members who might feel disappointed at the moment wait for some sort of clarification, because clearly corrections were made, and clearly the look of the original theatrical DVD releases, which does not have the green tint, was something the director wasn't happy with. Period.

Originally Posted by greg_achen

That quote, in its context, is referring to the THEATRICAL Blu Ray editions. Why then doesn't the Theatrical Blu Ray have ANY hint of the green push found in the new Extended Editions? Did Andrew Lesnie and Peter Jackson just now realize the green they always intended for the film has been missing this whole time? Right.

Actually, it is. Because from all of your posts thus far it is fairly obvious to me that you assume that once a master is approved the resulting high-definition transfer that is struck from it replicates it flawlessly.

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Once again he was referring to the THEATRICAL Blu Ray release of the films. If all these color issue were fixed, once again why is there no indication of a green tint in the THEATRICAL Blu Ray of which the interview is in reference to? Please explain that one to me.

See above.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

The bolded part effectively disproves your claim that the SDVD master, which you are using to produce various flawed observations about the accuracy of the color timing, might have been definitive (so, the "archiving" claim goes right out the window).

One more thing. The archiving claim is what Michael Pellerin claims they were originally intended to be, amongst serving other purposes. Obviously things can and did change and will continue to change as technology improves. I wasn't aware, however, that mastering techniques back then would elimate almost all the green that was originally intended for the film. You would think some semblance of that intent would have remained through all the various home releases.

"Back when The Lord of the Rings films were made in 2001, 2002 and 2003, as part of the archiving process, HD masters were created for each of the three films when they originally debuted in cinemas. Evan Edelist, in charge of HD mastering for New Line Post Production, had helped institute this policy of mastering all new NL releases to HD for archival purposes back in the 90's and it was pretty much industry standard procedure by the time of LOTR. These are the HD masters that would have been used for mastering the DVDs, and broadcast masters for HD channels, etc. This was well before HD-DVD and the ultimate industry standard, Blu-ray, even came into being."

[PRO-630HD]

I Love caps-a-holic.com Let's hope they get TTT and ROTK up in a few days. Far better detail in the EE than in the TE in all of the shots.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Which, at this point, is absolutely incorrect - because you, or anyone else, clearly do not know what was approved and what came out of Warner Brothers; which is exactly why you have the following concern expressed below:






Nothing could be further from the truth. I pointed out the information that you are obviously misinterpreting, and advised that you and other members who might feel disappointed at the moment wait for some sort of clarification, because clearly corrections were made, and clearly the look of the original theatrical DVD releases, which does not have the green tint, was something the director wasn't happy with. Period.



Actually, it is. Because from all of your posts thus far it is fairly obvious to me that you assume that once a master is approved the resulting high-definition transfer that is struck from it replicates it flawlessly.




See above.

At this point it is becoming obvious by your dodging some of my questions that you do not have an answer as to why no other home release, especially the theatrical Blu Ray release approved and corrected by the films original DP, doesn't have any hint of the "originally" intended green tint.