The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree over semantics.

You've explained your definition and I can live with that, whereas I view "correct" (wrong or right), in this instance, as being what the director approved.

Wasn't talking about how the film originally looked, or how I would prefer it to look. Was merely talking about it being correct as far as the Directors choice.

I guess so.

I personally want to see the color timing of original theatrical presentation preserved in as high quality as possible. Even though this isn't the theatrical presentation the EE has always had a color timing identical to its shorter counterpart. This new color timing is hugely different compared to how it's always been.

Jackson could add more digital effects to this new release, and approve it, and I would complain even more than I would about a new color timing. It's the same reason I hate what Lucas does with Star Wars. This new color timing isn't anywhere near as egregious an alteration as what Lucas has done, but it's in the same revisionist vein. I want the original. The fact that TtT and RotK appear to have remained unchanged makes these huge changes to FotR all the more baffling.

If you haven't watched that featurette, seriously, you should watch it. It illustrates perfectly how important the original color timing was to the first film's feel.... and how much care they originally put into it.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by mredman

I don't see green

If you don't see green you need to have your eyes examined.

Anyway, Warner would be stupid to issue a recall or confirm an error before the first batch of discs has shipped. You can be sure that >90% of all buyers will never even hear if an exchange would take place, hence a lot of money would be saved.


So I guess we'll have to wait a while longer - but there's no way I'll pay full price for something this awful.

[Velmeran]

Very nice post in general Matt, provided a lot of additional details what those of us who don't post at AVS wouldn't have known about your setup (as we only got 'quote' (not even sure if it was a partial or not) and with no additional context to go on.

Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens

But for the love of God, be respectful and act like adults. There is no reason to do otherwise.

Also wanted to say I agree 100%.

I think it's pretty clear that these films are really important to a lot of people. Think we all want the best product we can get and while we're not all going to agree with each other we can be respectful.

There are a ton of ways to view this release, and it can be hard to see the other viewpoints but there isn't 1 right answer here, it's all opinions.

Originally Posted by steelers1

it did.mine is still in place to. lets hope barnes and noble dont cancel these orders. keeping my fingers crossed. thanks velmeran.

Welcome --- I assume you got yours with the 50% coupon, in store with "ship-to-home" and a 100% paid in advance? I'm thinking they'll be fairly hard to cancel, since they took the full amount when I ordered.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Even if he does clear it up, people will still not be satisfied. You will see comments like "he sold out to Warner" "He is an incompetent director" and such.

But that's just it. In this day and age rife of greed, corruption, lying, back room deals, you name it......those comments would be perfectly acceptable. ABSOLUTELY! Can you seriously trust Warner, Jackson or any other "official" person or statement to be legit. Come on, seriously, in this day and age? Give me a break! Time to wake up! Take about sleeping in the yellow/green Matrix. Trust your eyes. Snow is white, sky is blue. Sure, during moments like sunrise or sunset you can get a gold or even pinkish on things. Certainly a blue tint can arise from scenes with a lot of snow, clouds, that why there are filters like "skylight" which add a warm, pinkish tone if needed. There's all sorts of lighting conditions and times of day that can cast color tones in any scene, BUT the green color cast seen in these extended editions is just wrong. I will not be buying these on that fact alone.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Maggot

Trust your eyes. Snow is white, sky is blue. Sure, during moments like sunrise or sunset you can get a gold or even pinkish on things. Certainly a blue tint can arise from scenes with a lot of snow, clouds, that why there are filters like "skylight" which add a warm, pinkish tone if needed. There's all sorts of lighting conditions and times of day that can cast color tones in any scene, BUT the green color cast seen in these extended editions is just wrong. I will not be buying these on that fact alone.

Nobody disputes these facts IN THE REAL WORLD. But in the movie and film world, things dont always have the color that they have in the real world. Its called Directors Intent and that should be the way we are supposed to view the film.

I mentioned Minority Report as one example.

Does everyone else seem to forget that the original Matrix film also received a color change from how it was released theatrically.

Yet nobody was all up in arms over that.

[Blu-Runner]

Seriously people...



I can't wait to own this set.

[Matt_Stevens]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Buddy YOU ARE THE ONE claiming that this stuff is WRONG when we have industry sources who are claiming that this is Jackson's intended look.

The burden of proof is ON YOU.

It didn't look that way on Tuesday night, in theaters that played Jackson's newly approved version. Multiple sources confirm this.

I am reminded of Michael Bay. "HD-DVD sucks! Transformers will look awesome on Blu-Ray!"

Paramount execs: "Sorry, Michael. No Blu-Ray release. HD-DVD. Tow the line, please."

Michael Bay: "Hey fans, my film will look great on HD-DVD. Trust me."

Even after the GLADIATOR transfer was replaced, Paramount claimed nothing was wrong with the original. Mistakes are never admitted to because it is too expensive. This is a release that is costing millions. A recall or admission of guilt will not ever happen. Ever. Our only hope is that in a year or two a quietly done replacement program is put into place.

Nothing wrong with Patton or Longest Day.

Back to the Future? It's fine.

Velmeran said: Very nice post in general Matt, provided a lot of additional details what those of us who don't post at AVS wouldn't have known about your setup (as we only got 'quote' (not even sure if it was a partial or not) and with no additional context to go on.

Velmeran, I wish that was my setup! No. My bud is a DP and he is, uh, shall we say well off. His screening room is mind blowing. 3 chip DLP that cost I think 20 grand or something.

[job1138]

Color Timing is a Director's choice. NO MOVIE represents realities colors, or a real place. There is always processing. Regardless of film or digital. I shoot and edit and color correct footage on a daily basis. If PJ wants his film to look a certain way it is his choice. The reason other versions were all the same is that they were struck from the same master. New Master = New Color grade. The one produced before this one for fellowship is ugly. We have seen that one. BR Theatrical. This grade could have been done quickly and inefficiently when they originally brought out the first DVD. HENCE all of the problems with artifacts and sharpening etc. Now he went back and tried to make it what he wants his film to look like. UNDOUBTEDLY the making of the Hobbit is creeping into his mind. He isn't going to see a film the same way even a few months after a transfer. But there is no way that this is unacceptable. If you don't like it. Don't buy it. Jackson loves his movies and his fans, He is nothing without them. If it is a technical error that is one thing. But I don't think it is. Saw FOTR in theaters last Tuesday. No problems. This is the way he sees his vision now. Maybe not exactly the same as when he first brought them out. But they are his films.

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens

I watched the actual new Blu-Rays for the extended editions this week at my friend's place. He has a screening room with a 120 inch screen. He can play Blu-Rays, HD-DVD, D-VHS, 16mm and 35mm.

We compared the FOTR Extended BD to the theatrical BD, the Theatrical HD broadcast from DISH Network HD-PPV via D-VHS and a 35mm trailer for the film.

All but the extended Blu-Ray have similar, if not exactly the same color timing. It was hard to see much difference between them.

The extended, very much so. It was clearly turned towards green throughout. Sometimes not so much, but more often than not. It looked off. It looked wrong. It's not how the film looked in theaters. And according to my host, who is a cinematographer, it is not how it looked at the Digital screening last Tuesday at the AMC Theater where he viewed it. So perhaps something happened in the mastering stage that was in error. ??? Maybe we will never know.

No doubt there is less DNR in this version, so all the blurriness and mushiness of the Theatrical Blu-Ray is gone. But with more green colors and a pushed contrast. It's a trade-off.

TWO TOWERS and KING have what appear to be new color timing, but it's not all that far off from what came before. They are, in fact, outstanding. Bye bye blurry DNR'd image and hello detail.

These were our observations. Take them as you want to. But for the love of God, be respectful and act like adults. There is no reason to do otherwise.

The possibility of an untoward occurrence during the final stages of mastering is always a possibility, but one or more people would have had to have signed off on test discs before replication. While I'm willing to accept filmmaker change, error always has its place in something as multi-layered as getting Blu-rays out to the public. As I've noted here and in other sites, the cyan-green/blue push is definitely in place, but what does seem at odds with error is that (for example) in the sequence on the snow-covered mountain, which is 25-30 shots, only a few lean more toward the colder look, with others being more toward what many would consider normal-ish.

Is it possible that someone shipped an incorrect data tape, which may not have been final? Or did Mr. Jackson want this look, but not on a shot by shot basis, as he is entitled.

RAH

[MEB]

Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens

Since I have been mentioned here, I want to make some things very clear.

Many AVSforum know me. I post over there and not over here (though I used to) because things here can get very nasty at times. thanks to Ken for cleaning this thread up though.

I watched the actual new Blu-Rays for the extended editions this week at my friend's place. He has a screening room with a 120 inch screen. He can play Blu-Rays, HD-DVD, D-VHS, 16mm and 35mm.

We compared the FOTR Extended BD to the theatrical BD, the Theatrical HD broadcast from DISH Network HD-PPV via D-VHS and a 35mm trailer for the film.

All but the extended Blu-Ray have similar, if not exactly the same color timing. It was hard to see much difference between them.

The extended, very much so. It was clearly turned towards green throughout. Sometimes not so much, but more often than not. It looked off. It looked wrong. It's not how the film looked in theaters. And according to my host, who is a cinematographer, it is not how it looked at the Digital screening last Tuesday at the AMC Theater where he viewed it. So perhaps something happened in the mastering stage that was in error. ??? Maybe we will never know.

No doubt there is less DNR in this version, so all the blurriness and mushiness of the Theatrical Blu-Ray is gone. But with more green colors and a pushed contrast. It's a trade-off.

TWO TOWERS and KING have what appear to be new color timing, but it's not all that far off from what came before. They are, in fact, outstanding. Bye bye blurry DNR'd image and hello detail.

These were our observations. Take them as you want to. But for the love of God, be respectful and act like adults. There is no reason to do otherwise.

Matt,

Thank you for taking the time to come over here and post the clarification. It is nice to have additional feedback from someone that has watched the actual Blu-ray and viewed it in an advanced setting where color can be properly evaluated.

Regards,

Mark

[Matt_Stevens]

Mark, you're welcome. The films will be available by themselves eventually, so my advice, wait for that and buy TTT and RotK at that time. Hey, maybe the single releases will see a quiet "correction." ????


RAH, I wish I knew those answer. I found the Matrix like green color in some scenes to be terribly distracting. It was like the tint on the screen was off, but not, because it's calibrated.

I would say about 15 minutes in total is really really awful. The rest, it's different, but fine.

EDIT: And to clarify, when I say awful, I mean it looks just so so not correct. It can't be intentional. it's not even close to what it was before and nowhere near as NOT green as the other two films or even sections of FOTR. This is a real head scratcher.

[MerrickG]

I am off to go and see Green Lantern.

I'll be sure to let anyone know if I see too much green in that film.

[MEB]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Is it possible that someone shipped an incorrect data tape, which may not have been final? Or did Mr. Jackson want this look, but not on a shot by shot basis, as he is entitled.

RAH

Robert, Your comments suddenly gave me an image in my head of Peter Jackson sitting at the controls of the digital color grading equipment, with a bottle of half-empty Jack Daniels on the side table, and him saying to the technician... "Let's screw with their heads!"

Seriously, though... If this teal/green/cyan look is what Jackson wants, then why weren't Two Towers and Return of the King given the same treatment? It appears obvious that those movie DID receive some new color timing, why not the same treatment as FOTR?

It just doesn't make any sense.

Mark

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by PGW

Um... No.

Snow isn't green.
The sky isn't green.
Whites aren't green.

You're missing the point. Hobbits, wizards, spells, and fantasy don't exist either.

It's all in the eye of the filmmakers.

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by merrick97

I am off to go and see Green Lantern.

I'll be sure to let anyone know if I see too much green in that film.

There is less green in it than this.

[gstriftos]

Wow PJ's facebook page starts to be on fire.

[frogmort]

I just wanted to say thank you to Kenneth Brown for an amazingly in-depth review. One of the best I've ever read.

[vivancoman]

Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens

It didn't look that way on Tuesday night, in theaters that played Jackson's newly approved version. Multiple sources confirm this.

I am reminded of Michael Bay. "HD-DVD sucks! Transformers will look awesome on Blu-Ray!"

Paramount execs: "Sorry, Michael. No Blu-Ray release. HD-DVD. Tow the line, please."

Michael Bay: "Hey fans, my film will look great on HD-DVD. Trust me."

Even after the GLADIATOR transfer was replaced, Paramount claimed nothing was wrong with the original. Mistakes are never admitted to because it is too expensive. This is a release that is costing millions. A recall or admission of guilt will not ever happen. Ever. Our only hope is that in a year or two a quietly done replacement program is put into place.

Nothing wrong with Patton or Longest Day.

Back to the Future? It's fine.



Velmeran, I wish that was my setup! No. My bud is a DP and he is, uh, shall we say well off. His screening room is mind blowing. 3 chip DLP that cost I think 20 grand or something.

Gotta chime in just registered today and saw this
But that is not true at all. There has been some people here that mention the change in color at the cinema also.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by vivancoman

Gotta chime in just registered today and saw this
But that is not true at all. There has been some people here that mention the change in color at the cinema also.

There seems to be conflicting reports. But there are people who don't see the green tint in screenshots and those who do, so it's only natural that the same would occur with the theatrical presentation. If, that is, the tint appears in the theatrical presentation. I wasn't able to make it to a screening so I can't throw my two cents in one way or the other.

[Brodo Faggins]

What's going on? Its been a dozen or so posts since I read "... this is how PJ intended it to look... "