The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

IThe scenes that were created with the original color timing in mind now have a completely different feel to them. Many scenes that were specificaly created to look and feel "warm" are no longer warm... the list goes on and on. If you prefer this I'm happy for you, unfortunately it doesn't work the same for me.

But if the director wants them this new way, then you are just assuming he wanted them warm... You are not the director, therefore you don't really have the authority to presume what he wanted. So maybe they were specifically created to feel THIS way, and they are just now able to do this through the new DI.

It's so weird when people talk about what the director wanted when only the director knows that. Armchair critics are the best.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by MEB

If it's all the same to you, and considering the source you are relying on, I'll wait until I hear that directly from Peter Jackson.

Mark

No, I am not relying on Mr. Hunt's information - you need to do your research.

I am also not emotionally involved in this debate as I am not the greatest fan of these films. However, as I mentioned earlier, some balance is needed. I also believe that accuracy is a lot more important than preference(s).

Pro-B

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Had this EE Blu Ray had no green tint, no one would care now. Fellowship is an Academy Award winning film for its cinematography.

Agreed. At least give us this first EE blu release with the color the way we have all been watching it for nearly 10 years now, and then when the films get released in the Ultimate Edition, do the the change then. To force us to view this new coloring sucks since this is not the same film (color wise) that all of us have been watching for all these years now! If this truly was intentional, what a crazy decision IMO.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Agreed. At least give us this first EE blu release with the color the way we have all been watching it for nearly 10 years now, and then when the films get released in the Ultimate Edition, do the the change then. To force us to view this new coloring sucks since this is not the same film (color wise) that all of us have been watching for all these years now! If this truly was intentional, what a crazy decision IMO.

Ill be honest with you if this new set does indeed represent PJ's true intent for how the FotR is supposed to look then I do not think WB should make a new master just to satisfy the small (albeit VERY vocal) minority who are unhappy with his change.

The reality is this:
Most of the people buying this set will have NO CLUE that the color has been changed. Nor will they care either. Most people have not watched these films 100s of times over to know the exact looks of each of these films and I suspect that all of them will be MORE than happy with what they see.

Having said ALL OF THAT I will say this:

If, in the VERY UNLIKELY event that it does turn out that there was INDEED an error, I will be right there with YOU in DEMANDING that we get a proper release of the film.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by 42041

Because I think it looks ugly? I'm all for filmmaker intent; I'm also free to make my own subjective judgements about how films are shot and color graded.

I think its ugly as well and the latest Bill Hunt "confirmation" means nothing to me. We need to hear from PJ himself before people will be satisfied IMO. It wont change my mind either way, but at least we can put this part of the debate to rest at that point.

[frogmort]

Dr. Svet, I very much value your opinion, and have bought many blu-rays based on your reviews, but I do have trouble excepting that FOTR never looked anything like this on the TE DVD, EE DVD, or TE blu-ray, but now, the EE blu-ray has a consistent teal/cyan coloring to the entire film. Apparently, TTT and ROTK don't have this coloring. It just seems odd to me.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Fellowship is an Academy Award winning film for its cinematography.

And since the new reports that the cinematographer approves and signed off on the discs themselves, there shouldn't be any debate. This is how he intended the movie to look, Oscar or not. I think he probably knows what he was trying to achieve visually more than anyone here.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by uther

You are a funny guy, no BD has ever had a 'error of some sort'.

Botched is the word that you are looking for and many home videos BD, HD-DVD, DVD, VHS, Beta home video have been botched. In fact fixing the previous botch job is a sub-industry in of itself.

But of course since the TE FOTR is on BD so that means, of course, that was not an 'error' either even though it is not green and a blurred mess.

And of since the other two EE are not green but are on BD that means the non-green is not an 'error' either.

Wither the new color is an 'error' or not, unless it is meant to be the fourth installment of the Matrix it has been botched whatever the excuse, be it Jackson was on quaaludes at the time or somebody fell asleep at the switch.

But continue on with the apologising.

Please forgive us if we are more likely to believe that the current disc does INDEED represent Jackson's true wish instead of knocking us for not believing that there was a mastering/disc authoring error.

[Grand Bob]

At the beginning of Ken's review of The Two Towers, he mentions Tolkien's reaction to the attempted 1957 Zimmerman attempt to film the story. Tolkien reacted to this in his letters:

'If Z[Zimmerman] and/or others do so, they may be irritated or aggreived by the tone of many of my criticisms. If so, I am sorry (though not surprised). But I would ask them to make an effort of imagination sufficient to understand the irritation (and on occasion the resentment) of an author, who finds, increasingly as he proceeds, his work treated as it would seem carelessly in general, in places recklessly, and with no evident signs of any appreciation of what it is all about.....
The cannons of narrative art in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies.'

With regard to that passage, I would agree with Ken's assessment that Jackson was careful to heed that advice, and for the most part did a great job when faced with the difficult task of simultaneously filming three story threads in time. Where I disagree is when Ken mentions:

"the sharp-penned threesome evoke the author's language, imagery and intentions at every turn, even when making departures from his text."

For the most part - yes, but not at every turn. The oft-mentioned sequence where Frodo and Sam are captured by Faramir's men (although cinematically well-done) is certainly a substantial departure from the intention of the book, and I for one, wonder why the screenplay involved the trip to Osgiliath when it was not only expensive from an already overburdened time standpoint, but added nothing to the story. I believe that Tolkien, were he alive, would have applied similar comments quoted above to this section of the film. But aside from that, another great review by Ken.

[uther]

Originally Posted by merrick97

The reality is this:
Most of the people buying this set will have NO CLUE that the color has been changed. Nor will they care either. Most people have not watched these films 100s of times over to know the exact looks of each of these films and I suspect that all of them will be MORE than happy with what they see.

Ah the excuse for every messed up BD: the unwashed masses will not notice.

We should just accept the slop they give us.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Whether you think the new color grading is ugly or not is absolutely irrelevant.

And yes, you are free to make your subjective judgments - and when you share them people are free to point out that your judgments are off. In other words, the only authority on the subject is the director, and if, his intention is respected by the release, which the information that is circulated at the moment indicates that it has been, there really isn't an issue - regardless of how much you and a few other people have been insinuating that there might have been/has been.

Pro-B

Except we dont get to view the "other" director intent version which we have been watching for nearly 10 years now and is JUST as valid IMO as the "new" version, but all of a sudden we just have to "accept" this new version and go along with it? BS! Give me the damn film that I have been watching all these years now with the colors as I know and love them........

All this reminds me of a South Park episode that covers this very topic and the kids are pissed about all these changes that they must go along with, lol.

[Thunderhead]

can't we all just get along?
ignore screenshots from the land of oz & just enjoy the movies on blu-ray.

[blu2]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Apparently you havent read any other quote of his because he has only said it


1000 times!!!!!!!!!!

So why did Hunt use the term "now" as of today's quote, and only mentioned the cinematographer?

It's great that the cinematographer approved, but going from Hunt's statement "I now know that cinematographer reviewed and approved check discs for the set" to "Bill Hunt Confirms that the BD picture (not just the original DI master) are approved by Jackson and reflect his intentions:" is not accurate.

[retablo]

Forget the color change... It should make people more angry that they've been watching FOTR wrong all these years.

[uther]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Please forgive us if we are more likely to believe that the current disc does INDEED represent Jackson's true wish instead of knocking us for not believing that there was a mastering/disc authoring error.

Until the next one that is. lol.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by uther

Ah the excuse for every messed up BD: the unwashed masses will not notice.

We should just accept the slop they give us.

I agree we shouldn't accept SLOP.

I define SLOP as Patton, Predator UE, Spartacus, original Gladiator and many others.

I don't feel that we should define SLOP as something that represents the directors true vision. As far as we know.

[frogmort]

If there was a mistake, I really don't think anyone would mention it, and I don't think there would be a recall. It would be a devastating financial blow to WHV. If there is a problem, they will probably quietly issue replacement discs for just FOTR a few months after it has been released. To me, that just seems to make the best financial sense, unfortunately.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Ill be honest with you if this new set does indeed represent PJ's true intent for how the FotR is supposed to look then I do not think WB should make a new master just to satisfy the small (albeit VERY vocal) minority who are unhappy with his change.

The reality is this:
Most of the people buying this set will have NO CLUE that the color has been changed. Nor will they care either. Most people have not watched these films 100s of times over to know the exact looks of each of these films and I suspect that all of them will be MORE than happy with what they see.

Having said ALL OF THAT I will say this:

If, in the VERY UNLIKELY event that it does turn out that there was INDEED an error, I will be right there with YOU in DEMANDING that we get a proper release of the film.

Agreed. And even if there will be an exchange program, it might be something similar to the Gladiator case. They will not recall the current release.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by retablo

And since the new reports that the cinematographer approves and signed off on the discs themselves, there shouldn't be any debate.

I imagine the current debate will continue until Jackson or Lesnie make a direct statement on the matter. Third-party reports will always kindle doubt, helpful as they may be in narrowing down the most likely answer

If someone involved in the process of approving a transfer has the time to answer a direct question asked by a journalist or reviewer, they have time to give that journalist or reviewer a quote that can be posted for all to see.

I certainly appreciate any report that surfaces, like Mr. Hunt's latest, and I hope he continues to provide whatever news he can. However, it would be nice to have a direct quote from Lesnie rather than a general account of a conversation. A direct quote would settle the error-vs-intention debate altogether and we could all start getting along again

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by frogmort

If there was a mistake, I really don't think anyone would mention it, and I don't think there would be a recall. It would be a devastating financial blow to WHV. If there is a problem, they will probably quietly issue replacement discs for just FOTR a few months after it has been released. To me, that just seems to make the best financial sense, unfortunately.

That makes the most sense and would be great! I SO hope this happens!

Originally Posted by frogmort

Dr. Svet, I very much value your opinion, and have bought many blu-rays based on your reviews, but I do have trouble excepting that FOTR never looked anything like this on the TE DVD, EE DVD, or TE blu-ray, but now, the EE blu-ray has a consistent teal/cyan coloring to the entire film. Apparently, TTT and ROTK don't have this coloring. It just seems odd to me.

Seems VERY odd........

Originally Posted by MEB

If Jackson did NOT approve the puke-teal color shift, it greatly improves the odds that the Blu-rays will be redone. That is why it is important to know for certain whether it is a screw up or not.

And, based on some of the reports from folks that saw it in the theater on Tuesday night, there is some basis for the belief that the puke-teal color shift on the Blu-rays IS a screw up.

Mark

Agreed. This is EXACTLY why we need confirmation one way or the other and not from "Bill Hunt" and his "sources", but from PJ himself.

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

I imagine the current debate will continue until Jackson or Lesnie make a direct statement on the matter. Third-party reports will always kindle doubt, helpful as they may be in narrowing down the most likely answer

If someone involved in the process of approving a transfer has the time to answer a direct question asked by a journalist or reviewer, they have time to give that journalist or reviewer a quote that can be posted for all to see.

I certainly appreciate any report that surfaces, like Mr. Hunt's latest, and I hope he continues to provide whatever news he can. However, it would be nice to have a direct quote from Lesnie rather than a general account of a conversation. A direct quote would settle the error-vs-intention debate altogether and we could all start getting along again

Right. I dont want to hear from Bill Hunt about this (no offense to him), I want to hear it right from the source