The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

You mean like we dont have with Star Wars? Like those originals that us old folks love and cherish? I knew this would happen as I always said let PJ change something in the LOTR series and all hades will break loose. What I find really funny is some of the same people that don't want LOTR touched are all good with Lucas stiffing the original fans of that trilogy....ahh well.

See, my only real problem with Lucas' approach with his updates to Star Wars is the substitution of Hayden Christiansen (sp? - ah, who really cares anyways!) as the ghost figure at the end of the one film. THAT kind of change is, quite frankly, a tremendously uncalled for manipulation. Everything else is fine.

Now, if they had completely negated one character from a scene of this LOTR release, or added someone into a scene, THEN I would have reason to complain. As it is, tweaking the colour-timing is not that big of a deal. It is meant to create an atmosphere. And now that the films can be seen more clearly with HD playback at home, Peter Jackson and/or his cinematographer can do whatever the hell they want to make that atmosphere more to the liking of their original intentions... which is, I'm pretty confident about, exactly what we will be getting.

[Blu Titan]

Please keep the discussion civil and avoid personal name calling or insults.

[ckocher]

I do not see an issue with any of the screen shots posted in the blu-ray.com review. Its looks great to me and I can't wait to get this set. I concur with the reviewer, maybe the change in color timing is due to how they are filming "The Hobbit".

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by mrpink134

You sound like a broken record.

I think if we are all honest with ourselves, pretty much all of us do.

[PGW]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I find it pretty interesting that a whole group of "purists" can have a reason to believe that there was an error of some sort, yet it is incredibly difficult to even begin to assume that the theatrical presentation - which in no way was identical for all of the "purists" posting in this thread - might have been off to begin with..
Pro-B

Thanks for the well-needed laugh.

Yeah! That's right! All those OTHER issues of FOTR should have been green! Now I get it!

Oh, wait... so why aren't "Two Towers" and "Return of the King" green... Damn! Those two blu-ray's must be defective then, right?

Or... hold on, maybe it was Peter Jackson's "vision" that the first four hours the film would feature green snow, skies and skin... but then, magically, everything would change to more realistic colors for the second movie. It is, after all, a fantasy, right?

Now... maybe the guy whose job it was to approve the test disc DID come out and say: "No, no! This is terrific! This is the way it's supposed to be!".... case settled, right? Um... sorry... NO. Those lovely people who screwed up the subs for the DVD of "Let The Right One In" said that too. It's called "cover your ass" because you don't want to recall a zillion discs and lose money.

If we're lucky, Peter Jackson himself will come out and say "I wanted the film to be green in honor of Gollum! It's really, truly, my true intention. It was only a mistake that skies were blue for the first 37 issues of the film!"... Now, that would TRULY settle it, right? Because we ALL know the director should have the LAST WORD.

Snort. I bet you like the friggin' crayon look of "The French Connection," too. After all, that disaster was Friedkin's "intention," too.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I think if we are all honest with ourselves, pretty much all of us do.

Good point and you are right. We all sound like broken records including me, but until we get some sort of official type statement from the man himself about the blu ray discs this will go on unfortunately since there cant be closure until that happens. To many of us this color change feels so drastic and out of place that it is hard to imagine this could be intended which is why we need official word one way or the other for this to end. The silence by PJ, WB, etc....on the issue is deafening at this point as well and only adds to the suspicion IMO.

[frogmort]

You know, I've been looking at Ken Brown's screenshots:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-L...9/#Screenshots

,and they really don't look that bad at all. I wonder if it would be possible for him to post a few more. Three that I would love to see are:

1) When Gandalf is about to knock on Bilbo's door, near the beginning.
2) The solid white shot right before Frodo wakes up in Rivendell.
3) The long shot of The Fellowship first trying to cross Caradhras in the snow.

I understand if you're unable to do so, that review must have been exhausting, but I think it would help ease my mind, and many others, if you could.

Either way, thanks again for the great review.

[mrpink134]

IMO no, Bill Hunt got the information and disclosed it! Why would WB or PJ say anything when Bill Hunt already got the INFO maybe in there eyes thats enough? If I'm wrong and there is a problem I will be the first to say so and send in for a replacement disk but I just think after what Bill said it was intentional

[AutomaticDriver]

I have been reading some of the post. But I want to make sure.

Is the new color tint(?) in FOTR what PJ wanted or what? If PJ said," I dont like this new tint." But was forced to do it. Then I could understand people complaining.

But If it was PJ who wanted it. Then why is everybody outraged? I always hear people saying," I want what the director's intent,etc." But in this sense, it seems that people dont want what the director's intent was.

[mrpink134]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I think if we are all honest with ourselves, pretty much all of us do.

Best post in the thread!

[OmegaRED]

I watched the FOTR EE BD today and had seen all the screenshots with the green tint in them yet during the movie there was only one scene I felt it was noticeable and the snowy scenes looked white, the sky was blue too must be my tv white balance settings. I have to say if anything took me out of the movie it was the quality the image is incredible for a movie that's 11 years old.

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by frogmort

You know, I've been looking at Ken Brown's screenshots:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-L...9/#Screenshots

,and they really don't look that bad at all. I wonder if it would be possible for him to post a few more. Three that I would love to see are:

1) When Gandalf is about to knock on Bilbo's door, near the beginning.
2) The solid white shot right before Frodo wakes up in Rivendell.
3) The long shot of The Fellowship first trying to cross Caradhras in the snow.

I understand if you're unable to do so, that review must have been exhausting, but I think it would help ease my mind, and many others, if you could.

Either way, thanks again for the great review.

Or even better: when the hobbits return to the Shire in Return of the King.

I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of this color shift throughout the movie, but the main thing I try to remember is that a good amount of Fellowship is dark, and those scenes don't seem to be as affected, so I don't think it will ruin my enjoyment of the movie.

[shamus]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

See, my only real problem with Lucas' approach with his updates to Star Wars is the substitution of Hayden Christiansen (sp? - ah, who really cares anyways!) as the ghost figure at the end of the one film. THAT kind of change is, quite frankly, a tremendously uncalled for manipulation. Everything else is fine.

Now, if they had completely negated one character from a scene of this LOTR release, or added someone into a scene, THEN I would have reason to complain. As it is, tweaking the colour-timing is not that big of a deal. It is meant to create an atmosphere. And now that the films can be seen more clearly with HD playback at home, Peter Jackson and/or his cinematographer can do whatever the hell they want to make that atmosphere more to the liking of their original intentions... which is, I'm pretty confident about, exactly what we will be getting.

In the future, I wont be suprised if they insert the new actor playing Bilbo into the young Bilbo flashbacks....

[Inspector Toschi]

Originally Posted by 3DForLife

But If it was PJ who wanted it. Then why is everybody outraged? I always hear people saying," I want what the director's intent,etc." But in this sense, it seems that people dont want what the director's intent was.

It's quite simple. If they agree with it, it's A-okay and F the studio for not letting the director do it the first time. If they disagree with it... see this thread. That's why there's never a universal agreement. It's all personal taste. Heck, there's still people who prefer the narration in Blade Runner...

[retablo]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

You are wrong. This is how he intends the movie to look now, Oscar or not. It's funny how I haven't heard a single reviewer who actually knows what he or she is talking about try to argue that this is the way the film looked in its original theatrical run and Jackson and his cinematographer merely "restored" the color timing lost on the DVDs and TE Blu Rays. This is an alteration of their original color timing, which I never said wasn't in their right to do, even if I don't like it.

Not necessarily. Until official comments are made, you have no idea if this is how the movie was SUPPOSED to look, but they couldn't do it for some reason in 2001 because FOTR was mostly sourced differently than the other 2 films. So its very possible this was the intended look all along, given that it iS the correct color timing, and they were just now able to make that happen with this new master made from the DI. Not saying it's not different, but everyone is so adamant that the theatrical was exactly how they wanted it, which may not have been the case.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by frogmort

You know, I've been looking at Ken Brown's screenshots:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-L...9/#Screenshots

,and they really don't look that bad at all.

No, they look great, and not at all like what's been circulating around the internet. They do have a slight greenish tint, but nothing to the degree that everyone is crying about.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Inspector Toschi

It's quite simple. If they agree with it, it's A-okay and F the studio for not letting the director do it the first time. If they disagree with it... see this thread. That's why there's never a universal agreement. It's all personal taste. Heck, there's still people who prefer the narration in Blade Runner...

I hugely prefer the Final Cut (and Director's before that) of Blade Runner. That's my personal preference. The reason that set is so lauded though is because it includes every option. It includes the original Theatrical Presentation (with color timing intact), Director's Cut, New Final Cut (complete with new, altered color timing)... everything. Even though I prefer the Final Cut I'd be pissed if they didn't make any effort to preserve the original as it was presented theatrically.

The analogy doesn't really hold water either, Ridley Scott never wanted those drastic alterations in his theatrical release. He wanted the "true" ending, unicorn scene, and lack of narration in the original film. He was forced to change the film because the studio felt the audience wouldn't enjoy it the way he originally intended to present it. Be that as it may, the original is preserved none the less (in fantastic quality,) and that's exactly the way it should be.

That's not the case with Lord of the Rings. The original color biases were extremely carefully done specifically to impart a certain mood depending on the scene. Watch the featurette linked earlier, it explains it better than I can. This is the version people fell in love with, that's the version that earned its place in film history. That version isn't available on BD, that's why people are pissed. If this set had included two EE options (a la the Blade Runner set) - one with the new color timing and one faithful to the original, no one would care about the changes.

It's the same deal with all the Star Wars crap. No one would care at all about the new ludicrous changes if Lucas would just also release the original, unaltered versions alongside them.

Anway, I have a feeling PJ will eventually say "Yep, that's how I want it now" and everyone will just move on. It's a shame, I'd love to be able to buy the EE with the original color grading with this level of quality. Whatever, it's not like I'm cancelling my preorder or anything.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

I think the Blade Runner comparison only holds water if the Theatrical Cut was released with new color timing. Since it was released last year with the original color timing intact, the comparison doesn't work imo.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

I think the Blade Runner comparison only holds water if the Theatrical Cut was released with new color timing. Since it was released last year with the original color timing intact, the comparison doesn't work imo.

Good point. I feel that BD needs to replicate the theatrical experience as much as possible. Unfortunately, the relative ease of "fixing" becomes too much of a draw and directors feel the need to tinker, when they should just leave it alone (unless they also release the original theatrical version, Blade Runner went above and beyond in this respect).

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by retablo

Not necessarily. Until official comments are made, you have no idea if this is how the movie was SUPPOSED to look, but they couldn't do it for some reason in 2001 because FOTR was mostly sourced differently than the other 2 films. So its very possible this was the intended look all along, given that it iS the correct color timing, and they were just now able to make that happen with this new master made from the DI. Not saying it's not different, but everyone is so adamant that the theatrical was exactly how they wanted it, which may not have been the case.

How it was supposed to look in 2001 is a different argument than how it did look in 2001. I suppose it is possible that they always intended for the color timing we now see. However, one of the special features found in the Appendices of FotR deals with the color grading of the film and it specifically uses shots of The Shire sequence, for example, comparing before and after it was color graded. They had the ability to make that sequence more "green heavy" back then but chose not to. Jackson and his cinematographer also had the opportunity to "up the green" in that scene again for the TE Blu Rays and chose not to, despite it being confirmed he requested other color timing changes for that edition. The TE Blu Rays are also approved by Jackson. Which approval should we give more credence to is up for debate and so I do agree with you that more facts are in order.