The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Because this whole thread has become a JOKE. Its the same arguments that get repeated OVER and OVER and OVER. People go back and forth on their point of view each trying to one up the other (I was guilty of this myself), then the mods have to come in and issue a few suspensions then things cool down and then after a while someone makes a flamebait statement (not always intentionally) and the cycle repeats which is making it virtually impossible for honest people to get honest information about this bluray set.

p.s. the barbq was DAMN good and I am going back to the lake again tommorrow. I invite everyone to join me and maybe we can debate color issues over some cold ones!!!

Sounds good. I likes me a cold one, or twelve every now and then!
I just don't think the thread should be closed. Just because some people can't be civil is no reason to punish the ones who can. That's why we have mods.

Originally Posted by Scooter1836

Well now that you mom says so it must be true...........

Have either of you looks at the BD itself. Color timimgs are percieved by the brain differently when pictures are in motion. The only people that can truly comment accuratly are those that have watched the BD in 1080p like it is designed to be viewed.

When it gets to the point where people have to explain to me how my brain works, that is usually a sign of a problem with the blu-ray(or blunt head trauma). If I'm paying this much money, my brain shouldn't have to work at all.

[georgec]

Bottom line is some shots do look a little better with recoloring while most others look abysmal.

It seems FOTR called for independent scene-by-scene changes and not a universal hue shift towards green.

[beefytwinkie]

Originally Posted by Scooter1836

Well now that you mom says so it must be true...........

Have either of you looks at the BD itself. Color timimgs are percieved by the brain differently when pictures are in motion. The only people that can truly comment accuratly are those that have watched the BD in 1080p like it is designed to be viewed.

Jesus Christ, all I meant was that the differences and changes in those pictures are noticeable because she doesn't care about these things.

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by frogmort

When it gets to the point where people have to explain to me how my brain works, that is usually a sign of a problem with the blu-ray(or blunt head trauma). If I'm paying this much money, my brain shouldn't have to work at all.

LOL

No it does not say absolutely there is or is not a problem.

You can take anything out of context and citique it and make something wrong about it.

The context of a BD movie is to be experieced that way. And if the artist that does something to that which makes thigs look "different" when you take them out of context it is not necessarily wrong.

For example I could find a lot of posts here, take only one sentence out and change the meaning of it. Just as sentences are contextual to a post a screen shot is the same to a BD movie.

More amd more people that have seen the BD are reporting the issue is a non issue and we will not truly know until WB/PJ make a statement...if they do.

[nathan_393]

Originally Posted by blu2

Have to agree on this. If Warner is creating a new HD master for the EE, the digital copies should be the downrez-ed versions of those masters. They should be consistent except for the resolution. I think this is either laziness or extreme penny pinching at work.

of course it's laziness and penny pinching!
You're talking about the same set that includes 9 DVD's carried over from previous sets!
Why are people so surprised??

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

of course it's laziness and penny pinching!
You're talking about the same set that includes 9 DVD's carried over from previous sets!
Why are people so surprised??

People are still harping on about this? It's more efficient to carry them over onto DVDs than to put them on BDs. Period.

I hear less complaining at a political protest.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

People are still harping on about this? It's more efficient to carry them over onto DVDs than to put them on BDs. Period.

I hear less complaining at a political protest.

While that is true, there is not one iota of new content in this release despite it being confirmed there are special features yet to be released. Don't think for a second that the main motivating factor for WHV recycling the same exact DVDs found in the original set isn't to save costs and increase the price (thus maximizing profits). They're a business, afterall. That's what businesses do. But as consumers we can certainly call them out on it.

[nathan_393]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

People are still harping on about this? It's more efficient to carry them over onto DVDs than to put them on BDs. Period.

I hear less complaining at a political protest.

Oh, I'm not trying to complain so much as note the fact that people are surprised that WHV is skimping out where possible. I understand this. I don't mind the DVD's much either. Getting up to change a disc after watching 4 hours of special features doesn't bother me a whole lot

Plus they're using quality Blu-ray cases to store them in, so no complaints here.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

I personally couldn't care less about them not including the bonus features on a BD instead of several DVD's. Honestly, who cares what physical medium they're stored on? They're there, that's the point. I could never understand people pissing and moaning about them spreading the feature films over two BD's each (rather than cramming it onto one) either. That maximizes quality... can you really not get off your ass after a couple hours and change the friggin' disc? I wouldn't have it any other way.

Really, at this point the only thing they need to fix is the green tint bullshit. They did a killer job of remastering the thing, just fix the green - you are golden.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

While that is true, there is not one iota of new content in this release despite it being confirmed there are special features yet to be released. Don't think for a second that the main motivating factor for WHV recycling the same exact DVDs found in the original set isn't to save costs and increase the price (thus maximizing profits). They're a business, afterall. That's what businesses do. But as consumers we can certainly call them out on it.

Also, if they still have a surplus of the dvd special feature discs why not use them? I would have rather had 1 BD for it all. Will be interesting to see how the dvds differ if at all in this set. If they are different in there layout then 9 dvds is not more cost effective than 1 BD.

[LordCrumb]

I think a lot of you are forgetting that Warner/New Line PURGED the original hard drives that had all the digitized footage on it. Jackson tried to stop them, but they wouldn't have a bar of it.

Jackson said the chances of new footage etc would be very rare, as it would mean going back and re-digitizing all the footage they would need.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Because this whole thread has become a JOKE. Its the same arguments that get repeated OVER and OVER and OVER. People go back and forth on their point of view each trying to one up the other (I was guilty of this myself), then the mods have to come in and issue a few suspensions then things cool down and then after a while someone makes a flamebait statement (not always intentionally) and the cycle repeats which is making it virtually impossible for honest people to get honest information about this bluray set.

p.s. the barbq was DAMN good and I am going back to the lake again tommorrow. I invite everyone to join me and maybe we can debate color issues over some cold ones!!!

You should visit the Star Wars thread. The madness there has been going on almost 800 pages now.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

Ok, look - I'm not saying it's nonsense that there's a green tint. There's a green tint on just about every film made these days. And no, the titles on FELLOWSHIP are not pure, scientifically measured white. Me, I wish all movies made were still being chemically graded.

What is nonsense is this insane, virtually tribal over-reaction to the original, inaccurate screenshots that paint a picture of a serious, irrefutable mastering error.

This is not that, folks. There's a strong green tint in the Shire scenes, for sure - but that's the way it always was. I remember being pissed off by the unsubtle grading at the time. But when the location changes, the green tint becomes unnoticeable as it should.

I don't care what it's measuring at on the micro-Richter scale of cyan! All that matters is what the film looks like in motion and your home theatre situation. If the eyes "adjust to a white point"or whatever, then fine. These Blu-rays are the best these films have looked by a country mile. I've no axe to grind here, or shares in the company - I'm not even that much of a fan of the films. But I can see that some of you are and you're going to deny yourself a very pleasurable release without having seen it for yourselves.

I don't - I really don't - expect anyone to take my untechnical word for this, except to tell you that I have worked in film, both in the days before digital and after. Unless there are two batches, a lot of people are going to be wondering what the fuss was about come release day.

Yes, the film has a slight leaning towards green, I'd agree with that. But - for better or for worse - that's how Jackson made it. I'm almost certain that 95 percent of you will have no problem with it when/ if you watch it; though admittedly this hysteria will have you noticing the merest hint of green like never before.

I'm not trying to troll, people; and I'm not trying to impugn those who disagree. I'm just saying - most of the people who have seen these blu-rays (including Bill Hunt) see nothing wrong here. I have seen them and I'm in agreement. Trust your own eyes, not the graphs and screengrabs.

Originally Posted by duggie walker

Well, hold on - these aren't conflicting reports, are they? Everyone who's seen the discs say that they're fine. The only people citing problems are going by screenshots and youtube videos. If you accept that the proof is in the pudding, as they say, there's no cause for alarm. If it hadn't been for these screenshots, all the reports you'd be hearing now would be glowing. And if you won't accept these first-hand accounts, what's ever going to sort this out for you? A screenshot that shows no-such disastrous green tint? Haven't we already had a few of those?

Penton-Man, in response to citing Bill Hunt - let's not allow any mission creep. The fact is, the original allegations are not subtle. I mean, the controversial screen and video grabs show an image that is layered with a thick green murk. I'd imagine that'd be easily within anyone's remit to spot. Bill knows what's being alleged, he's seen the discs and he doesn't see the problem. He's got no vested interest in denying or affirming.

Nor does it affirm anything that people who went to the screening saw no murky green tint; as those who have seen the discs are saying - guess what? That there's no murky green tint!So how does this advance your case? Why should they say they're looking into something when there's nothing to look into? When Jackson and his DP have actually said this is how they want the films to look? Would Sony do anything different?

I don't have much sympathy for this argument, usually, but I can really imagine the BD departments just despairing at these kind of mass-hysterics. It devalues all the occasions when there is something seriously wrong. There is a lean to cyan in the grading but that appears to be the Director's choice. Does somebody want to go back and re-grade FIGHT CLUB or ALIEN 3 or any one of Fincher's movies?

The grading on LORD OF THE RINGS is not subtle and it never was. It's a product of the digital age and not by any means a flawless one. That grading no-doubt covered a multitude of CGI sins. Someone asked if we wouldn't rather be without it? Well, yes - I would. But that's a matter of aesthetics, of artistic choice; it's not a flaw in the transfer to BD.

Jackson and Lesnie re-graded the film. That has been confirmed. Then one of two things happened. They either intentionally added a consistent green/cyan tint to the entire image they re-graded or an error occurred in which a green/cyan tint was inadvertently added later in the process.

Much of the confusion and conflicting subjective analyses/opinions stem from people mistakenly assuming the entire image will appear green-ish. A slight green/cyan tint wouldn't and doesn't make everything look green; it simply alters every hue that appears on screen. In some FOTR shots, the tint is obvious. In others it is not. That doesn't mean it isn't there. It is always there, always affecting the colors present on the screen. The objective evidence of a prevailing tint is irrefutable.

However, whether the image looks great or not isn't the issue. It looks quite good, and boasts many improvements. (All of which trace back to Warner starting from the original 2K source, not Jackson's aesthetic re-grade.) The issue is whether the image as it appears is what Jackson intended. If it is, all he needs to do is say, "hey guys, the tint you've made me well aware of? It's all good. That's what I want." He's had two weeks to do so as the controversy has burned hotter and hotter. He has not. That says something. Jackson answers his fans all the time, addresses his filmmaking techniques constantly. Silence on this sort of topic shouldn't be taken lightly, and indicates something other than intention.

As I see it, this really isn't about whiny fans. It's just about getting the transfer Jackson wants FOTR fans to have into their hands. If the post-color-grade green/cyan tint is intentional, he only needs clarify that it was, indeed, an intentional move made or approved by himself or Lesnie. If the tint is the product of an error, though, it deserves to be corrected. All signs at the moment point toward it being an error, and those signs are mounting. No objective evidence has emerged that indicates the tint is intentional. There have been subjective reports that "it isn't there," which is inaccurate. Or subjective reports that amount to, "I just don't see it," which is completely valid. Still not objective evidence, but a valid opinion.

Again, it's been shown, time and time again by objective analysis, that a consistent green/cyan tint does exist, and that it presides over the entire film. And again, it very well could be an intentional blanket-tint. It would be unlike anything Jackson has ever done to any of his LOTR films, theatrical or extended... but it very well could be intentional. The likelihood that is, though, decreases by the day. Jackson's silence is the most telling, but a variety of other signs point toward an error.

I'm honestly not interested in how slight any transfer error is. No one should care whether a production error is minor or major. It's much simpler than that: if there is an error, I would hope fans try to get the discs Peter Jackson wanted to put in their hands. Civilly, of course. Replacement programs have been instituted by Disney, Paramount, Sony and, yes, Warner for far, far, far less. (And no, I'm not saying every production problem has been addressed in the past, or that every issue that's been uncovered has earned a replacement program.)

To recap:

1) A slight consistent green/cyan tint is there, and it does preside over the whole film. No, everything doesn't look green. A slight green tint wouldn't make everything look green. Blues are still quite blue, reds are still reasonably red. They just wouldn't be as blue or as red as Jackson intended them to be. (If it were an error.)

2) The tint has been objectively verified again and again, and not one piece of objective evidence has surfaced that suggests the green/cyan tint isn't there, and isn't at play in the entire film. Subjective opinions have cropped up. But no objective evidence.

3) The debate is whether the tint is bothersome, not whether it exists. Whether Jackson intended it to exist will only be verified by a confirmation from Jackson himself or a Warner replacement program. I strongly suspect we'll see one or the other in the next two to three weeks.

Until Jackson or Warner speaks to the tint, these dismissals and personal attacks only decrease the value of this thread. Besides, typing the same fact rundown every ten or fifteen pages is making my fingers hurt. I'll have to start copy-pasting

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

I personally couldn't care less about them not including the bonus features on a BD instead of several DVD's. Honestly, who cares what physical medium they're stored on? They're there, that's the point. I could never understand people pissing and moaning about them spreading the feature films over two BD's each (rather than cramming it onto one) either. That maximizes quality... can you really not get off your ass after a couple hours and change the friggin' disc? I wouldn't have it any other way.

Really, at this point the only thing they need to fix is the green tint bullshit. They did a killer job of remastering the thing, just fix the green - you are golden.

My thoughts exactly. I don't mind the extras on dvd. I'm very happy that the movies will be on two blu-rays each. From what I've seen, the transfer looks glorious, except for the dull green tint.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by KaiGusto

I think a lot of you are forgetting that Warner/New Line PURGED the original hard drives that had all the digitized footage on it. Jackson tried to stop them, but they wouldn't have a bar of it.

Jackson said the chances of new footage etc would be very rare, as it would mean going back and re-digitizing all the footage they would need.

I never heard that. Wow. I think that gives people good reason to be concerned about quality control and the practices of WHV if they pulled a stunt like that.

[Tony208]

replacement program is cheaper than a recall

probably in a few weeks

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

I personally couldn't care less about them not including the bonus features on a BD instead of several DVD's. Honestly, who cares what physical medium they're stored on? They're there, that's the point. I could never understand people pissing and moaning about them spreading the feature films over two BD's each (rather than cramming it onto one) either. That maximizes quality... can you really not get off your ass after a couple hours and change the friggin' disc? I wouldn't have it any other way.

Really, at this point the only thing they need to fix is the green tint bullshit. They did a killer job of remastering the thing, just fix the green - you are golden.

I am in this camp as well. Very happy with the set except we are getting FOTG instead of FOTR.....if they fix that then I dont have any issues with this release.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by tony208

replacement program is cheaper than a recall

probably in a few weeks

+ 1

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by merrick97

I am really surprised this thread hasn't been locked. This whole thing is just out of hand. I went out to the lake and had some barbq. Why not lock this thread until release day? Give people some time to cool off.

The thread is not going to be locked as the release of LOTR EE is big news. If members can't discuss it here, they'll find another place to do so. If people cross the line, they'll be suspended for a longer period of time.

[aiman04]

Thanks again Ken. That post should be on top of each page of this thread.

There's a forum I used to visit that each new post will be under the first post while older posts will be pushed behind. That way the first post will always be visible.