The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Sith]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Liv Tyler, meh?

I think she is one of the most beautiful women alive.

Liv Tyler is smokin hot.

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by HeKS

"All I can say is that the burger reflects the cook's wishes."

"I see."


Do you get it, Croweyes?

HeKS

So what you're saying is that I should have a big juicy spicy burger during my first viewing of FOTR EE?

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

I never didn't "get it", HeKS...just don't agree that this qualifies. You're talking about a situation where something you love is absolutely ruined by something overpowering. And with very few exceptions, hardly anyone is claiming this "issue" is there to that degree. Quite the contrary. Would I be personally happier if it weren't there at all? Honestly, yes. Am I going to let it ruin the film for me because I know it is there? No. And I just guess I feel sorry for people who don't have any choice but to be so tied into seeing something precisely as they want to see it that they MUST answer "yes" to the second question.

Well then you DON'T seem to really get it, because most of us who continue to express our displeasure with this situation DO feel like something we love has been ruined by something overpowering. That's the whole point. What you are saying is that you fit into the category of people in the restaurant who say the new mountain of spice on the burger doesn't seem to be all that noticeable. If that's the case, I'm happy for you. Really, I am. But the bunch of us "hardly anyone's" who do feel the problem is there "to that degree" feel EXTREMELY let down by this.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

So what you're saying is that I should have a big juicy spicy burger during my first viewing of FOTR EE?

Yes, and you should keep your eyes on the burger the whole time, cause it will be a more enjoyable viewing experience

HeKS

[ckenisell]

LOL. I think I'm going to turn the saturation all the way down on my TV and watch it in black and white.

Seriously though, do I think that WB is cover their tail? Yes.
Do I think that PJ hasn't officially said anything because he knows it's not the version he approved? Yes.
Do I think WB will eventually create a trade-in program? Maybe. 50/50 chance.
Will I send back my pre-order when it arrives? No.
Will I enjoy watching it? Probably.
Will I stop asking myself questions only to answer them immediately? Not in this post.

[Sean72]

OK. If this really was PJ's intent,

I would ask of him "why?" What was his motivation to apply a linear green/teal filter and throttle back the brightness for the entirety of the Fellowship. One movie of three, the other two movies remaining untouched in a similar way.

What was the artistic intent? What motivation? Why now try to visually separate the movies and break continuity, where before continuity seemed so important in the telling one Epic story?

Why such a change from the PJ of 10 years ago, who preached the usefulness of digitally color grading each shot in a unique way, to the guy who now chooses to eliminate that dynamic from his movie? One movie.. of three..

I'm sure others have questions of their own. To me this is a bigger issue than the video quality on this release.

[karlosfunkster]

Originally Posted by omicron

Mistake? Quite probably. Whose mistake? Jackson's? The studio's? We don't know. Maybe we will never know. Will we get a correction? We don't know. If there is a correction, when? We don't know.

Saying that if we remove green tint will make things all better? Maybe, maybe not. Depends if the color grading was done with the assuming the tint would be in place or not, which we don't know.

Saying that removal of the green tint from Rivendell makes it better isn't helpful. I don't know if I will ever be able to buy such a film.

As far as the idea that we should punish the studio by not buying something with flaws in it, I don't have much hope that will work. Studios have been selling flawed product since the first VHS tapes. Their attitude is we should feel lucky to be able to buy movies at all. Galling? Yes. Can I change it? No. Most people out there buying videos have no where near the standards that the people on this site have. Would the studio would be able to measure the effect of a videophile boycott? It sounds like not buying is not going to affect the studio. Only me. That is not productive.

So all I have to do is make a decision based on the product available to me. Rent, buy do nothing.

Rent? Pay per View? I went to Netflix. Fellowship of the Ring EE Blu-Ray - Not in catalog. PPV? Who knows if it will be available that way? Not me. Besides I want to be able to watch on my schedule.

Buy? Not a problem. Click here and you have it on release day.

So the question boils down to is the quality worth it? Pristine audio (and I have a really good audio system - 3kW amp power, dual subwoofers, Revel speakers) plus very good to excellent video on 2 out of 3 films, and improved video on the other? To me that is a yes.

+1
(Million)

[karlosfunkster]

Originally Posted by Sean72

OK. If this really was PJ's intent,

I would ask of him "why?" What was his motivation to apply a linear green/teal filter and throttle back the brightness for the entirety of the Fellowship. One movie of three, the other two movies remaining untouched in a similar way.

What was the artistic intent? What motivation? Why now try to visually separate the movies and break continuity, where before continuity seemed so important in the telling one Epic story?

Why such a change from the PJ of 10 years ago, who preached the usefulness of digitally color grading each shot in a unique way, to the guy who now chooses to eliminate that dynamic from his movie? One movie.. of three..

I'm sure others have questions of their own. To me this is a bigger issue than the video quality on this release.

Now this statement has been made by the studio, I expect PJ to discuss it soon. How can he not!? We will hear more about it soon enough. The studio may well be covering their arses. We'll see.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by Sean72

OK. If this really was PJ's intent,

I would ask of him "why?" What was his motivation to apply a linear green/teal filter and throttle back the brightness for the entirety of the Fellowship. One movie of three, the other two movies remaining untouched in a similar way.

What was the artistic intent? What motivation? Why now try to visually separate the movies and break continuity, where before continuity seemed so important in the telling one Epic story?

Why such a change from the PJ of 10 years ago, who preached the usefulness of digitally color grading each shot in a unique way, to the guy who now chooses to eliminate that dynamic from his movie? One movie.. of three..

I'm sure others have questions of their own. To me this is a bigger issue than the video quality on this release.

Check out the shire in ROTK TE blu rays at 182 min in. You will see why he changed it. It looks exactly the same as the new transfer for FOTR EE. infact the whole movie has the same colors incl Rivendell

It is getting more and more clear why he did this change now.

[karlosfunkster]

Originally Posted by HeKS

I laughed too, but apparently for a different reason.

In determining whether or not there is a green tint and extreme contrast boost to the film, we ARE much better forming our opinion on facts than on someone's subjective opinion. We already know for a fact that both the green tint and contrast boost are there, and we also know for a fact that some people who have disks that definitely contain these issues have said they don't notice them.

The screen prints that have been posted are accurate. The fact that some people don't notice the issue or notice it less in the context of the moving image doesn't make the issue go away or even OBJECTIVELY reduce the issue. It just means some people don't notice it when they don't have anything better to compare it to.

As for those of us who want a release of FOTR that doesn't only stand up when there's nothing better to compare it to but that is objectively good and consistent with the other films and not unnecessarily worse than previous versions in any way, well, I don't know why that makes us complainers.

Some of you apparently have a lower standard of expectation for what you should be given with what is probably the biggest release of the year. Others of us have a higher standard of expectation ... a standard that we know for a fact could easily be met by simply removing the blanket of green and returning the contrast level to a reasonable setting. If that were done, every single thing that any of you think is better about the coloring in this version over previous ones would remain better, it would just be improved that much more by not being muted by the green and losing shadow detail from the contrast boost. Meanwhile, all the stuff that looked just great in terms of color in previous versions, like "second breakfast", would still look as great as always.

HeKS

I too was concerned...BEFORE watching it. But this "Lower Standard Of Expection", or in Roy Battys case "Less Well Trained Eyes" argument is a nonsense (and conceited too - even if not intentional, you are placing your opinions as superior). It looks surprisingly wonderful, and dare I say it, lacking of a strong green tint. (perhaps a mild blueish tint to my eyes).

[karlosfunkster]

Originally Posted by mredman

Check out the shire in ROTK TE blu rays at 182 min in. You will see why he changed it. It looks exactly the same as the new transfer for FOTR EE. infact the whole movie has the same colors incl Rivendell

It is getting more and more clear why he did this change now.

I'll check that out. Still not had a chance to watch the other 2 yet! Thanks!

[karlosfunkster]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

No I'm just interested in getting a definitive answer on the issue. Once an answer exists, I'll leave it to all of you to debate the answers that are revealed. My only concern (at least as far as this thread and my review go) lies with gathering the facts and reporting them to all of you

And you have done a sterling job, thank you.

[Aerodude73]

I Highly doubt this order will take 7-9 days (est. delivery: 7/6/11, NEXT Weds.), as it left Nevada later Mon. night.
It should be here by Friday/Saturday, at the latest.

UPS Tracking Info:

Sparks, NV, United States
06/27/2011 9:48 P.M. Departure Scan
06/27/2011 3:57 P.M. Origin Scan

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Yes, and you should keep your eyes on the burger the whole time, cause it will be a more enjoyable viewing experience

HeKS

Staying with the burger analogy: The original juicy burger that HeKS and others liked so much, wasn’t what the cook and owner of the burger joint wanted to begin with. Since they had a tight budget (you know how it is with startups), Wingnut’s burgers had to cut corners on the quality of the meat and were unable to include the very costly and exotic spices that they truly wanted in their burger. The original burger was high in saturated fat, trans-fat and had an unhealthy amount of salt.

They were able to grow their business over the years and reached the point where they were able to use a higher quality of meat and the desired spices in a healthier burger. When the new healthy Wingnut burger was introduced, they lost a handful of old customers who really liked the original unhealthy burgers. The lost customers weren’t missed, because they were replaced tenfold by new health conscious patrons. The cook and owner were very pleased that they could finally offer the burger the way they wanted to when they first started the business.

[amoergosum]

Let's say the tint is intentional:

Think about it >>>
because the transfer of FOTR (Theatrical) had issues they decided to spend money
on a new transfer and new color grading...only for FOTR. So WB basically didn't want to spend more money.
Right now they're selling an unfinished product which is not acceptable.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by mredman

Check out the shire in ROTK TE blu rays at 182 min in. You will see why he changed it. It looks exactly the same as the new transfer for FOTR EE. infact the whole movie has the same colors incl Rivendell

It is getting more and more clear why he did this change now.

Seriously? You think these two images look exactly the same?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3438608...in/photostream

In order to get those to look even remotely similar you need to lay a sickly green tint (something like 150, 215, 168) over the entire ROTK image in "Multiply" mode, boost the contrast to around 90 (in a range that goes from -100 to 100), and then desaturate the image by about 20%.

That doesn't really strike me as the ROTK image looking exactly like the FOTR image. It also doesn't strike me as making it remotely more clear why PJ would have intentionally made this change.

HeKS

[lkmg]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Seriously? You think these two images look exactly the same?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3438608...in/photostream

In order to get those to look even remotely similar you need to lay a sickly green tint (something like 150, 215, 168) over the entire ROTK image in "Multiply" mode, boost the contrast to around 90 (in a range that goes from -100 to 100), and then desaturate the image by about 20%.

That doesn't really strike me as the ROTK image looking exactly like the FOTR image. It also doesn't strike me as making it remotely more clear why PJ would have intentionally made this change.

HeKS

exactly, those 2 pics look different. would be very disappointed if one movie has 2 different kind of green colors in it...

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Staying with the burger analogy: The original juicy burger that HeKS and others liked so much, wasn’t what the cook and owner of the burger joint wanted to begin with. Since they had a tight budget (you know how it is with startups), Wingnut’s burgers had to cut corners on the quality of the meat and were unable to include the very costly and exotic spices that they truly wanted in their burger. The original burger was high in saturated fat, trans-fat and had an unhealthy amount of salt.

They were able to grow their business over the years and reached the point where they were able to use a higher quality of meat and the desired spices in a healthier burger. When the new healthy Wingnut burger was introduced, they lost a handful of old customers who really liked the original unhealthy burgers. The lost customers weren’t missed, because they were replaced tenfold by new health conscious patrons. The cook and owner were very pleased that they could finally offer the burger the way they wanted to when they first started the business.

Your change to the analogy kinda loses the trail (why would better quality meat be super dry? Why would droves of new patrons flock to consume a burger with an overwhelming and unbalanced application of strong spices?), but it doesn't really matter cause we can switch back to the real state affairs here.

Pretty much everyone here who is complaining about the Green Tint is not insisting that FOTR needs to look precisely like it did upon the initial theatrical showings. The movies have been regraded since then, and the EE's even more so. More regrading was done with the TE blu-rays last year. With this in mind, it makes no sense whatsoever to claim that the current EE release is how PJ really wanted it and he's just been stuck with the original result from 2001 for the past decade. That's simply not true.

The thing is, with each of the previous regrading efforts, the work was always carried out judiciously, scene-by-scene, with each change being made for a reason. Just look at the Digital Regrading documentary that has been posted in this thread several times.

And here's another thing. Pretty much all of us are aware of and happy with the specific regrading of this sort that has been done to FOTR EE. Most of us don't seem to mind these specific changes that have been made yet again.

What all of us object to is the blanket green tint and contrast boost that has been applied to the entire film indiscriminately AFTER the specific regrading choices of this release had already been applied, which is UNQUESTIONABLY a complete departure from the entire METHODOLOGY of color grading that has been used on these releases for the past 10 years ... and for some strange reason this entirely different methodological approach has only been applied to the first of the three films, isolating it from the rest of the series.

If you're going to tell me that PJ has clearly been itching to do a lazy about-face regarding his entire digital grading methodology for the past 10 years, but ONLY when it comes to FOTR, then I'm going to tell you that he's clearly been smoking some crack for that same amount of time.

HeKS

[CrescentMoon]

Well maybe everybody who doesn't like the green tint should buy this set now anyway, because who knows, maybe PJ decides to apply a red tint for TTT and a blue tint for ROTK for the Ultimate Edition...

[lkmg]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoon

Well maybe everybody who doesn't like the green tint should buy this set now anyway, because who knows, maybe PJ decides to apply a red tint for TTT and a blue tint for ROTK for the Ultimate Edition...

quite true. it would match perfectly with the DVD extended boxed set.