The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[ApolloOne]

Originally Posted by Sean72

Do you then dispute that the constant green tint may be an error? What's your qualified professional opinion?

I dispute nothing. My set hasn't arrived yet, and I don't intend to opine on its color grading when it does. I somewhat sarcastically refer to usage of Photoshop auto corrections as a basis for color grading judgments. If my acerbic sense of humor has offended you, then I apologize.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

No problem, and no offense was taken at all. Please continue to question me whenever my points or conclusions don't add up, or when I'm being potentially misunderstood. I can't rightly criticize the studio and filmmakers for a lack of transparency and then not be willing to be transparent myself.

You guys keep me on my toes, and I truly appreciate it. If nothing else, I hope it helps contribute to a more informed, more civil discussion. Even those of you who have disagreed with some of my positions or opinions along the way have been, by and large, very respectful to me. That doesn't go unnoticed, and I've tried my best to return the favor

Thanks as always for posting!

Hi Ken,

In light of the above post, there is just one comment you've made on several occasions that I'm not sure is entirely accurate.

In relation to this green tint, you've mentioned several times that that it is a very slight or very subtle tint that has been applied. According to my understanding and from what I can see, it is not slight or subtle at all, and I mean that from the perspective of objective measurement rather than subjective perception.

As I've pointed out elsewhere here, to achieve the degree of color adjustment from the tint that exists in the film, a solid green layer needs to be applied over the frame in "Multiply" mode and set to 60-65% opacity. THEN, the contrast needs to be boosted up to a level of around 90 out of 100.

While it might not be easy for most to visually perceive the change at all or very much without an untouched reference, the application of the green tint and contrast boost is, objectively speaking, about as subtle as a heart-attack.

I feel this is an important point to be clear on, because in order to accept that this is really PJ's new vision and an intentional change, which has officially been claimed to be the case (though with no direct mention of the issue), we do not need to just accept that PJ and Lesnie dialed up the green balance a notch or two, which would most definitely not achieve this degree of influence over the frame. Rather, we would seem to need to believe that they did something much closer to and as drastic as what I described above.

Take care,
HeKS

[can man]

To all those who can't seem to let this go, two words: get a life!

[Tony208]

can we move on and debate the eventual ultimate edition instead

[Pirate King]

I watched "Fellowship of the Ring" today.... in a totally dark room with a calibrated tv. The experience was fantastic. The pq is outstanding. I had NO problem with the green tint issue. The snow looked white, the sky looked blue. I paused where they are walking up the mountain, single file, in the snow. It did NOT look green to me.. it looked amazing!! All I can say,, if you view it on a calibrated screen, in a theater-like enviroment.. it should look practically perfect. I am having a hard time not giving the PQ a 5/5. The audio is flawless. I am very happy with my purchase.

[OB1KNBE]

Tried to download the digital copies to itune, but itues says that the codes have already been used. Is thereanything i can do.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

I was going to mention this last night when I read your post about the audio, but got sidetracked and forgot to comment. I assumed there was simply an overall volume difference between the TE and EE and after you turned up the EE a bit then it would come back up to par (or slightly better) with your previous impressions of other versions. Glad to hear this did the trick.

I bought the set today as well

Congrats! Hope you enjoy it.

Yeah, if you turn it up just a bit, it sounds amazing. It's the cleanest, most detailed, and most effortless I've ever heard it sound. I have a 7.2 setup with supposedly about 1500w rms, with two 12" subs.
IT SOUNDS AWESOME!

Have you watched FOTR yet? I'd love to hear your opinions on it. I think the improvements to the PQ far outweigh the problems, but if they fixed the contrast and cyan hue, and did a disc replacement, I sure as hell wouldn't complain!

[HonestJohn]

Well, I was going to try and find time to watch these, so I made the time. 43 min down, only 640 min. to go ...

Took a short intermission to post this. Someone earlier in the thread made the statement "ignorance is bliss" in a positive comment. I'd have to agree. I made a point of not trying to obsess over the screen shot comparisons as my initial impression was oh shiz like a lot of you. Ken also made the comment as to once you see something it's hard to un-see it, or words to that effect.

Anyway, all I can say is WOW. Tint or no tint, color timing shift or digital re-grade... WOW. FOTR looks amazing to me with all the detail and PQ I could have asked for. The packaging? Outstanding, from the black cases to the heavy duty magnetic flapped outer case.

As far as the subtle or not so subtle layer of green tint goes, it hasn't bothered me in the least. My frame of reference may be a little different than some of you however as I've never owned any of the TE's on Blu, only DVD. So going from that to this?? It was like going from VHS to DVD. If anyone is on the fence about getting this boxset don't be as you'll be more than satisfied. (IMO). And no I won't refund your money if you're not....

Now on the other side of the coin, would I have preferred the FOTR Blu without the tint? Honestly I don't know, as I've never seen any version on Blu before. I guess it would have been nice to have that option however, but then again that would have made this a 21 disc set and I never would have been able to afford it .....

Hope you all get the pleasure, whether it be through a rent, friend, or purchase ........

The popcorn is ready, gotta run ....

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Ah, but therein lies the rub. If it weren't for hyper-critical viewing, edge enhancement halos, DNR smearing and compression artifacts would be standard issue with many more HD transfers. While I can understand why the thought of someone hyper-critically viewing a film might bother a few people, and while I can understand why some are so angry about some of the misleading expectations that were inadvertantly set in regards to FOTR's green tint, keep in mind that hyper-critical viewing is a vital process in keeping quality standards in check. Hyper-critical viewing has led to numerous audio and video fixes, as well as an increase in the quality of AV presentations across the board.

Again, I understand why it might be such an annoyance. Believe me, I'd love to go back to those innocent days before I became the reviewer I am today; before I could spot DNR, ringing, crush, compression issues, tints, audio hiccups, banding and the like. My first review of Patton at HDD in 2008 was glowing. A trial by fire and an introduction to the evils of DNR. Now, I can spot DNR from a mile away.

However, casual consumers... yes, I realize this next statement is going to be a wee bit self-serving... casual consumers should be grateful that there are those who put so much time and effort into verifying the studios releases are up to snuff. These people do so even while being chastised at every turn as radicals, malcontents and unpleasable filmfans. But Blu-ray quality is where it is because of those who have refused to overlook small issues in an otherwise high-quality presentation.

If it weren't for hyper-critical viewing, I suspect LOTR EE would feature the similar DNR as the TE release. Only hyper-critical viewers raised concerns about the DNR in FOTR; and it was these thankless hyper-criticals who should probably be thanked for the complete 2K remaster and noticeably increased detail in the current EE you are enjoying

Again, self-serving, I know. But a lot of people tarred and feathered me when I insisted FOTR TE had DNR, and not one of them have sent me a PM to say, "Hm. After seeing the increased detail in FOTR EE, I can see how you really hit the nail on the head when it came to the DNR in the TE." That DNR is suddenly, and unequivocally, accepted as indisputable fact. To be 100% clear: I am not suggesting we will experience similar events to unfold in this case. Please don't misunderstand. I'm just suggesting that the hyper-criticals are often dismissed, yet continue to keep a vigilant watch while others are content to simply enjoy the films they have the luxury of watching without those accursed hyper-critical eyes

Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong. In this case, they identified a measurable but slight green tint and influenced a major motion picture studio and a filmmaker to spend two weeks ensuring it was indeed intentional. It's intentional and confirmed. But that confirmation has only been afforded to us because concerns were raised in the first place. Be happy we have an official statement. Be happy you have a great looking transfer. Be happy you don't notice the tint. Above all, though, be happy there are people -- annoying as they may seem to some of you at times -- who are willing to invest their all in ensuring everyone has the highest quality product possible!

Ahem. Sorry for the soapbox



Nah, there's room for everyone at Blu-ray.com!

Come on, gents. Play nice!

Awesome, awesome post! I could not agree more.

I have been on both sides of these debates over the years, but more times then not these days I am on the critical side I guess which has evolved with experience (still have much to learn though, lol). Either way though I have come to understand and have a certain respect for the those of us who find and bring up these issues since quite often they are good findings and there have been good results that have come of these instances in the form of software and hardware improvements in the hobby. Of course sometimes we are wrong, but I will take that chance everytime to find out for sure since sometimes we are right and commonly improvements get made because of these efforts from all involved. I have seen it happen with everything from projectors and blu ray players (I caught SO MUCH crap for an issue I found with the Panasonic BD30 blu ray player when that player hit years ago with the LFE channel being down 5db that was eventually confirmed and got a FW fix for) to blu ray discs and it is always interesting to watch it all go down and everyone reaps the benefits during these instances when a problem does happen to be confirmed and then fixed.

So I say cheers to those who are not afraid to speak up, right or wrong since errors commonly get discovered from it and also corrected. I will take the chance every time and I hope more people can start to appreciate the picky SOBs like myself since the intentions are for the best even if it does not always look that way to some.

Anyway, thanks for making this post Ken and a big +1!

[jbat31]

Originally Posted by Toasterlad

#3 is only an issue for Jackson if the studio is lying or being disingenuous about the tint being intentional. If it's truly how he wanted it to look, why would he care WHO finds out about the tint? However, if it's NOT intentional, then he'd have to admit that he let people believe it WAS in order to save Warner Brothers some dough in replacement disc costs.

I also don't buy the "extremely busy" line. It's been a few weeks since this ballyhoo started, and he couldn't find time to make ONE Facebook post saying "Yes, the green tint is intentional"? He hasn't even heard MENTION of it, even though it been discussed on every Hobbitt fansite on the net? Unlikely.

And if he considers it a non-issue, why not say so? Why not say, "You people are getting yourselves all worked up over nothing! The green tint was my idea, and I think it makes everything SUPER GREAT!"

I honestly don't care if it was intentional or not, I don't like it, and I'm not buying it (at least not til it's under $40). But I find it kind of annoying that people are taking a vague studio memo as word from Jackson On High. Jackson hasn't commented directly on the color tint. And the only reason I'm interested in that fact at all is because it leaves the door open to the possibility that the studio is lying, and that eventually a replacement disc or set will be released without the green tint nonsense. If that never happens, that's okay too. I've lived this long with the DVDs, and I can go on enjoying them.

such a shame, these are so much better. Even if you dont like the green tint issue, the super increase in detail should be worth it.

[Jr7936]

i got mine for a dollar out of pocket, yesterday morning, after trading in 5 video games to best buy as well as using the 5 dollar best buy coupon. I was able to preorder the ring as well a few days before.

When i went back to best buy today to get sucker punch with the 15 gift card from customer care I was talking to a supervisor about the lord of the rings set and she told me she doesn't think its going to get much cheaper due to all the discs and content inside. she agreed with me that the most it could go down is 45 or 50, since she though the price now is a really steller price and I have to agree with her

[HonestJohn]

Originally Posted by Jr7936

i got mine for a dollar out of pocket, yesterday morning, after trading in 5 video games to best buy as well as using the 5 dollar best buy coupon. I was able to preorder the ring as well a few days before.

Damn, I wish I thought of that. I'm sure my son wouldn't have missed 5 of his PS3 games from the drawer ...

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Congrats! Hope you enjoy it.

Yeah, if you turn it up just a bit, it sounds amazing. It's the cleanest, most detailed, and most effortless I've ever heard it sound. I have a 7.2 setup with supposedly about 1500w rms, with two 12" subs.
IT SOUNDS AWESOME!

Have you watched FOTR yet? I'd love to hear your opinions on it. I think the improvements to the PQ far outweigh the problems, but if they fixed the contrast and cyan hue, and did a disc replacement, I sure as hell wouldn't complain!

Awesome! Looking forward to checking it out which probably wont be until the weekend as I am tied up ton and tom night (and work during the days). I will give you my humble and honest assessment after I do so though.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

I was going to mention this last night when I read your post about the audio, but got sidetracked and forgot to comment. I assumed there was simply an overall volume difference between the TE and EE and after you turned up the EE a bit then it would come back up to par (or slightly better) with your previous impressions of other versions. Glad to hear this did the trick.

I bought the set today as well

Looking forward to your impressions of the set Todd .

[Yojimbo68]

Originally Posted by karlosfunkster

Yojimbo's just green with envy.

Seriously, have you not kept up with the thread - even the reviewers are seeming happy with the discs (mostly).

I actually have kept up with this thread and it sounds like after a lot of talk and debate everyone just "excepted" the green tint. I know this was a highly desired title and I think the idea of not buying it for some was too much. Like it or not IT IS REVISIONIST, just like THE FRENCH CONNECTION Blu-Ray.

[AVfile]

Originally Posted by fishtaco

Does anyone know what the bolded part of the above statement from Harry Knowles means? It seems to indicate the new PJ-approved version has been shown on HDTV without any tint. Since the discs do have the tint, isn't that a contradiction? Which is the approved version, the HDTV or the Blu-ray?

Good question... I would like to know this too.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Looking forward to your impressions of the set Todd .

Thanks and sounds good I will post my feelings here when I get the time to watch it.

[Riches]

Originally Posted by Pirate King

I watched "Fellowship of the Ring" today.... in a totally dark room with a calibrated tv. The experience was fantastic. The pq is outstanding. I had NO problem with the green tint issue. The snow looked white, the sky looked blue. I paused where they are walking up the mountain, single file, in the snow. It did NOT look green to me.. it looked amazing!! All I can say,, if you view it on a calibrated screen, in a theater-like enviroment.. it should look practically perfect. I am having a hard time not giving the PQ a 5/5. The audio is flawless. I am very happy with my purchase.

This has been my experience as well. Now, i'm not wanting to get involved in the whole 'green tint' war. All I can say is, in my opinion, while obviously there has been colour adjustment made, FOTR looks fantastic. The picture is very rich and much more film-like than the previous releases. My snows are WHITE, my skies are BLUE... Maybe it's just my personal copy of the BRD :-) but no one has painted my movie green.

I can't help but wonder if people have their colours set far too high? I turned mine up to an unreasonable level, and, lo and behold... a green hue! But if I do this with my Harry Potter BRDs I get too much blue, etc...

I've always kept my colour settings at a moderate level so they remain realistic and not overly bright, but I can't say how other people may have their set-ups calibrated.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I was satisfied by the PQ of FOTR, cyan tint and all, so tonight I can watch TTT and forget all about this controversy.

[frogmort]

I did some critical viewing last night on my friends copy of FOTR. I think I'm going to go watch my copy and try to forget all of this stuff, and just enjoy the movie.