Sorry for the mass reply. I just got back in for the evening and had to dig through a dozen pages
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemaddict
Which scenes were recently graded for the first time?
|
This isn't entirely clear. Some scenes have clearly been overhauled (The Council of Elrond in particular), other scenes have small changes, other scenes seem to feature similar base color timing to their previous incarnations. However, every scene features the green tint. Because of its consistency throughout the film, it was added to the full transfer, either before or after all other color-grade changes were made. It is separate from the region-specific color changes, as they are scene-and-shot-specific and the tint is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeKS
Hi Ken,
In light of the above post, there is just one comment you've made on several occasions that I'm not sure is entirely accurate.
In relation to this green tint, you've mentioned several times that that it is a very slight or very subtle tint that has been applied. According to my understanding and from what I can see, it is not slight or subtle at all, and I mean that from the perspective of objective measurement rather than subjective perception.
As I've pointed out elsewhere here, to achieve the degree of color adjustment from the tint that exists in the film, a solid green layer needs to be applied over the frame in "Multiply" mode and set to 60-65% opacity. THEN, the contrast needs to be boosted up to a level of around 90 out of 100.
While it might not be easy for most to visually perceive the change at all or very much without an untouched reference, the application of the green tint and contrast boost is, objectively speaking, about as subtle as a heart-attack.
I feel this is an important point to be clear on, because in order to accept that this is really PJ's new vision and an intentional change, which has officially been claimed to be the case (though with no direct mention of the issue), we do not need to just accept that PJ and Lesnie dialed up the green balance a notch or two, which would most definitely not achieve this degree of influence over the frame. Rather, we would seem to need to believe that they did something much closer to and as drastic as what I described above.
|
I agree the word "slight" is inadequate and as potentially misleading as "drastic." Unfortunately, I haven't settled on a word that, in one adjective, continues to denote that most people won't notice it. I agree, it isn't entirely "slight." But any other words seem equally inadequate when addressing such a complex issue.
I'm also not in a hurry to call it anything other than "slight" at the moment, since the studio's statement indicates it was added intentionally. If it were an error, the word "slight" would be replaced. Since the statement indicates it is intentional, the word "slight" seems fairly appropriate. I'm certainly open to suggestions though! It just needs to be a word that indicates its consistent presence
and the fact that most people will have a hard time spotting it in most scenes when the film is in motion and being viewed in a suitably dark viewing environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffy12
Ok, I just watched some of the FotR EE and I found that the coloring issue did not turn out to be that big of a problem for me. (Whew, relief)
However, there is another problem which really bothered me big time, and that was the boosted contrast. In the darker scenes, quite a bit of the detail is lost.
This really shows up badly during some of the Moria sequences, such as the very beginning of it when the camera pulls back from the company to reveal Moria in all it's awesome glory with winding passageways and bridges over chasms! Well that is now GONE! Now as the camera pulls back, it is just a big black dark blob with very little definition. This goes on for a while during their passage and escape on the stairs before they get to the bridge. 
So it appears that this film suffers the same problem that A L I E N has with crushed blacks, as in a similar scene from that film when Kane is lowered into the alien ship's hold, the boosted contrast in that scene also effectively REMOVES the 'mat painting' of the rear of the hold.
I can handle the slight color changes here, but the disappearance of scenes through crushing blacks, appears to be some sort of new trend, along with adding TEAL to films that never had it in the first place! |
I mentioned this in my review as well, and I can confirm it is at play. The problem is that Warner has indicated that it appears as Jackson intended, which means any loss of detail was also intentional. Essentially, I'm working from the standpoint that he intended to suppress that detail to make those scenes darker and more ominous. In other words, I have to assume it's an artistic choice.
Again, though, this is definitely at play and, as HeKS has suggested, a more troubling aspect of the added tint and aesthetic choices Jackson made. There is some evidence that the tint is responsible for most of this, as well as some detail loss in specific colors, but if the tint is intentional/approved, so too is whatever shadow detail has been lost in its application.
That in no way means you should suddenly be happy about the loss of detail in those circumstances. It certainly leads to more crush. But, as far as my score and review are concerned, I can mention the contrast and shadow detail issue, but I have to treat them as if Jackson intended/approved it all. I know that's not the answer you're looking for, so hopefully my confirmation of the contrast/shadow detail issue will come as some consolation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by griezzel
Given the wording of the statement from WHV, is there even a possibility that the studio added the blanket tint after Jackson and Lesnie finished their work, without their knowing or even against their wishes? They own it, afterall, and have control, right?
|
Anything's possible. But for the last two weeks, Wingnut and Warner have been evaluating the transfer and have stated it appears as Jackson intends. The statement is specifically designed to confirm that Jackson has approved the Blu-ray transfer as it appears on the disc. Whether Jackson can see the tint... well, that's another matter. It stands to reason that if so many people can't see the tint when the film is in motion, then it is possible Jackson and those evaluating the transfer can't see it either. Even in that scenario, though, he still approved it, still liked it, still didn't have an issue with the end result. Even if the tint is an error, it's impossible for an error to be approved and intentional. If the tint was mistakenly added in the process, but Jackson liked and approved the end result, a mistake suddenly becomes a part of the director's final intention. Of course, sometimes art is a matter of stumbling into things the artist likes. Not all decisions are deliberate, some are instinctive.
As to Jackson's current silence on the matter, Bill Hunt posted an excellent reply a few pages back:
"I've submitted my suggestion to the various "powers that be" that a direct Jackson or Lesnie quote on the matter would he helpful. My own suspicision - and I want to be clear that these are my thoughts only, uninformed by anything other than my own feelings - is that the lack of one stems from one or all of three things: 1) Jackson may consider this a non-issue, being happy with the look of the film and discs personally, and having already had Lesnie look into it (according to Harry's report), 2) he's just extremely busy with production on The Hobbit films, and/or 3) Jackson may be aware that - right now - it's only people on a limited number of online A/V enthusiast forums and websites who are even aware of the issue, whereas the moment he issues a personal statement on the matter, it might get picked up by the more mainstream entertainment press (understandably curious about The Hobbit production) and suddenly a limited Internet forum kerfuffle gets blown up into a much larger headache. But again, this is speculation at best."
Hope that helps!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeKS
It's possible to regain the color and detail TO A DEGREE, but you can't get all of it. The details that suffer the most are those that have any green in them (which is more than you might think at first). Those are lost at the source, by which I mean the final disc. The video on the disc has lost details that have particular shades of green or cyan because the tint interacts with them and washes them out.
|
Correct. This is also objectively verifiable and measurable. But because it is confirmed as intentional, and because Jackson approved it as is, he is happy with that loss of detail.
(To clarify: overall detail is much, much improved. Only specific detail in some shots has been reduced by way of the tint and some of the contrast changes and shadow boosting.)
All countries
Argentina
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
Bulgaria
Chile
China
Colombia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Estonia
Denmark
Finland
Greece
Hong Kong
Hungary
Iceland
Indonesia
Ireland
Israel
India
Latvia
Lithuania
Malaysia
New Zealand
Norway
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Singapore
South Africa
South Korea
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Turkey
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
...In fact, I have to press play and then press the right arrow key on the remote and finally options come up but the screen is still blank 
Linear Mode
