The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

I stopped replying in this thread until I watched it completely. Well, I watched Fellowship and TTT. Unfortunately it wasn't possible for me to watch either without an ultra critical eye, but that's pretty much how I watch every home video release since getting into this hobby more than a decade ago... so:

I feel the same. Why post on a site like this unless you are an obsessive fan of perfection. HD presentation of films was created to more closely mimic the theatrical experience. If we're going to ruin it with these alterations that contrast with that original experience, then what's the point? I know it's "just a movie" and that we should just "enjoy the film" and not pick it apart, but I buy these films to experience the absolute best presentation and when that doesn't happen (especially when it should on an absolute phenomenon blockbuster as Fellowship of the Ring), it is not acceptable. I won't lie to myself.

Originally Posted by Yojimbo68

I gotta say the screenshots of the EE editon of FOTR look awful. I'm a fan of THE FRENCH CONNECTION like many of you are fans of this trilogy. I feel your pain.

I know, right? I was so excited for The French Connection and Friedkin absolutely ruined it. He's well within his bounds and abilities to, but I actually think that he is outside his rights to. When films are released, they are experienced and owned by the world. To make drastic changes that take away that original experience with sweeping changes (either FX or color grading) is wrong. I know that is a controversial viewpoint, but directors need to remember that their film is a piece of history. You shouldn't get the eraser out just because you can. Realize that the choices that were made were made for a reason and leave it at that.

I feel the same way about WB changing the studio logos for their catalogue releases. It's wrong.

Originally Posted by Danielle Ni Dhighe

It looks much worse as stills than as a moving image. Doubters need to watch it in motion first, instead of letting the Screenshot Brigade try to scare them.

This is why I bought the set, so I can say that it is still noticeable in motion. I'm happy that you don't perceive it, but it is still there. That's why people used Photoshop color levels to prove that it is there when it hadn't been there before.

[grundy]

My ex came over and we watched the opening sequence of The Shire in FOTR. Blue/green push & wonky contrast. I think it looks like crap. She even said, "Ew! Jesus, that's waaay too green! Why are these colors so off?" So I explained the scuttlebutt about it. Even with no preconceptions, she noticed it.

I think it's a shame, FOTR EE is one of my fav flicks, and now I can't even enjoy it. Hoping for a replacement program<FAT CHANCE

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

I kind of want a replacement program just so I can own both the corrected version and the current one as well, even though I love the latter. I am sure I will be able to persuade Warner Bros. to let me keep the remastered discs.

[can man]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

You can't compare Harry Potter to LOTR because Harry Potter started very saturated and slowly desaturated with each film and became almost monochromatic at the end to symbolize how the threat grows in each film. Two Towers SHOULD look like Fellowship because it looks like Return of the King.



All three films have slightly different color grades PER SCENE. There's no real overall tint in any film, except for this teal grade on this release of Fellowship.




Absolutely, the image was soft due to excessive DNR that was applied during the grading process. He changed his mind on the soft focus for Two Towers. I'm happy that he didn't decide to add Martin Freeman to the opening sequence or change the look of Gollum. He could have, but didn't. I don't understand why you would have GORGEOUS photography and decide to dull the white levels ten years later. It's not something that makes sense.




Helms Deep takes place at night and the rest of the series has night scenes (except the EE FOTR BD) that take place washed in blue. I love the look of the Helms Deep battle.




Like Ken said, that's because a teal tint is complementary to orange, so the Rivendell sequences are cooled, instead of a strong orange. They won't appear teal in those instances.



Thank you. I brought up Two Towers in terms of contrast because you would think the three films would have the same exposure, but Two Towers pops while Fellowship just doesn't, which it had before.



I agree. 2+1 just doesn't equal three in this case. It doesn't feel right.


The thing is too that Paramount still says that the first Gladiator was just fine, yet they don't sell that version anymore. I honestly think the same thing could happen here. WB did exchange the Matrix Revolutions disc over a couple of frames.

Well, guess what. There is not going to be a disc exchange. There is a green tint to the EE FOTR. It was there yesterday. It's there today. And it's gonna be there as long as Peter Jackson has anything to say about it. So I suggest some of the posters here hitch up their big boy pants and learn to deal with it.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by MEB

Look at Sam's Shirt! Look at the bag between Sam's legs. Compare the MacBook image to the JVC image. The shirt and the bag are both grey on the theatrical edition not the awful teal we see in the extended edition.

That ugly and unnatural green/teal/cyan tint permeates far too much of the extended edition Blu-ray. I fully realize that many people just don't see it. But a good number of us DO see it and it sucks! Hopefully, these photos will help any doubters understand just how badly it sucks!

Well yeah, when you whip out a computer and compare it to what you're seeing in your home theater, things are going to look different. They're both probably not calibrated the same, so that's fairly unreliable. The pictures on the set as opposed to the laptop looks a little blown out too, due to how the pics are taken. That's another no-no for comparisons. You really have to go buy direct disc screengrabs or nothing at all. Besides, we all know about the vast differences between the EE and the Theatricals at this point. The discussion is not its existance, but if this is revisionist enough to really be upset, and if the changes really hamper the overall product.

For me, yeah, it's revisionist. I really hate that I know what the film is supposed to look like... and have it come out looking like something else, just because the Director thought, "Hey... wouldn't this be nice instead?"

That being said, I finally sat down to watch the first disc of FOTR EE tonight, and I did so without skipping to certain parts of the disc to see how the contrast and color would be affected. Most of the time, the difference in color timing actually makes many scenes look more pleasant, more natural. In direct daylight scenes, a sunny day looks kind of overcast, but fortunately for this particular movie, we don't really get that 'sunny day blue skies' treatment all that often. Those scenes really do suffer but, most of the rest of the film looks fan-friggin-tastic. I really don't have that much of a problem with the color timing on this release, except for a few instances.

And despite what many people ranted about before ever seeing the product themselves, no, it does not appear that the entire film was slathered in green. It was done selectively, as many scenes still look blue or red or orange or whatever. Another nice thing about the color timing? The bright whites in certain scenes (like when Frodo is reviving in Rivendell) no longer make me want to shield my eyes... something I wanted to do in a dark environment even with a set that's calibrated 'warm'. This wasn't some shoddy effect that was used throughout the entirety of the film, and since there was specific care given to certain scenes, or in some cases, just certain shots within certain scenes, I really don't feel like we've been given something in error.

I say anyone who doesn't like the color timing changes certainly doesn't have to... but FOTR has never looked this good. The detail is immaculate, the scenery is still beautiful and not harmed by this change 90% of the time... you really should find a way to rent this and see for yourself. And do yourself a favor, and don't do comparisons before or while watching. Just take everything in as you're watching from beginning to end (at least the first disc), and really, all the color timing changes work well with one another, and don't seem as horrid as the screenshot comparisons have made it out to be.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

I kind of want a replacement program just so I can own both the corrected version and the current one as well, even though I love the latter. I am sure I will be able to persuade Warner Bros. to let me keep the remastered discs.

I would love this as well. I really want the people who say it looks just fine to see how it could look. I think a lot of people are glad to have the added detail and extended scenes, that they are willing to overlook the other picture issues.

I work every day at this type of stuff. It is instantly noticeable to me when things are off.

Originally Posted by can man

Well, guess what. There is not going to be a disc exchange. There is a green tint to the EE FOTR. It was there yesterday. It's there today. And it's gonna be there as long as Peter Jackson has anything to say about it. So I suggest some the posters here hitch up their big boy pants and learn to deal with it.

I'm not 100% expecting an exchange. I'm saying that just because the studio says there is no problem, doesn't mean that there still won't be an exchange. Paramount did it with Gladiator. It's called studio PR.

Belittling me as not being a mature adult and needing to put on my "big boy pants" does not help your argument, sir. I have been very courteous to many of the people whose thoughts on this matter I do not agree with. I expect the same. If you don't want to read what I have to say, then ignore it, but don't come here name-calling and expect that you won an argument.

Also, Peter Jackson has yet to make a statement...

[phlyle11]

Originally Posted by Maleku

Odd way to watch a film I must say. To pause the movie every minute to observe the still picture quality and analyze what colors your eyes are picking up on the still frame. How do you talk the movie theatre into doing this for you when you venture out to see a film?

I think some of you are better off selling your gear and taking up a new hobby. I personally could not feel anymore stupid if I were to sit in my $13,000 home theatre pausing film all night to ensure I did not get ripped off on my $60 Lord of the Rings EE purchase.

I could not imagine your friends, date or significant other sitting in the room with you while you do this so I presume you are all alone getting angry over some green tint by your lonesome?

Some of you are spending a ton of money to frustrate yourselves. Kind of funny yet sad at the same time... mostly funny though.

Pretty much sums up what I was thinking. All this analysis, then posting, then analysis, then posting. Geez, where do you find the time? It must suck to not enjoy something you are truly passionate about. If its that bad to your eyes, why not just stick to something you enjoy watching, and I think for a lot of people posting on this thread that would mean something with pristine picture quality that far outweighs the film content. In fact, "The Knowing" received 5 stars for PQ; why not just pop that in and marvel at those screenshots.

[can man]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

I would love this as well. I really want the people who say it looks just fine to see how it could look. I think a lot of people are glad to have the added detail and extended scenes, that they are willing to overlook the other picture issues.

I work every day at this type of stuff. It is instantly noticeable to me when things are off.



I'm not 100% expecting an exchange. I'm saying that just because the studio says there is no problem, doesn't mean that there still won't be an exchange. Paramount did it with Gladiator. It's called studio PR.

Belittling me as not being a mature adult and needing to put on my "big boy pants" does not help your argument, sir. I have been very courteous to many of the people whose thoughts on this matter I do not agree with. I expect the same. If you don't want to read what I have to say, then ignore it, but don't come here name-calling and expect that you won an argument.

Also, Peter Jackson has yet to make a statement...

I make no argument. I deal in reality. And the reality is this version of the EE FOTR is the version Jackson approved. End of story. If you want to make an argument, call Mr. Jackson and tell him you don't like his tint.

[jebhdb]

Originally Posted by can man

Well, guess what. There is not going to be a disc exchange. There is a green tint to the EE FOTR. It was there yesterday. It's there today. And it's gonna be there as long as Peter Jackson has anything to say about it. So I suggest some the posters here hitch up their big boy pants and learn to deal with it.

Never say never. I have frequented these boards for a couple of years now and have seen almost this exact situation take place multiple times. The studios always deny there is a problem until they feel their sales are adversely affected and then low and behold a corrected/alternate version shows up. I understand that the company line is that Peter Jackson approved the transfer and the color timing is correct, but I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future Fellowship is available minus the enhanced green tint.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by phlyle11

Pretty much sums up what I was thinking. All this analysis, then posting, then analysis, then posting. Geez, where do you find the time? It must suck to not enjoy something you are truly passionate about. If its that bad to your eyes, why not just stick to something you enjoy watching, and I think for a lot of people posting on this thread that would mean something with pristine picture quality that far outweighs the film content. In fact, "The Knowing" received 5 stars for PQ; why not just pop that in and marvel at those screenshots.

Because we're fan of films. If we love a particular film, we want it presented accurately. Fellowship is not. I don't take the word of a PR person at Warner as The Bible. If Jackson comes out with a through analysis of why he made these changes, then I would be disappointed in his choices but I would have gotten the definitive answer from the artist himself. I don't accept these "sources say" statements.

I just don't.

[Berek]

Did anyone else not get their Digital Copy codes? I bought mine at Best Buy and can't find them anywhere. There is no insert at all for them.

I guess it's not that big of a deal. I don't see how or why anyone would want to watch the EE's on a portable device. But at least it's good to have them.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

I kind of want a replacement program just so I can own both the corrected version and the current one as well, even though I love the latter. I am sure I will be able to persuade Warner Bros. to let me keep the remastered discs.

Imagine if these became some kind of highly sought after collectibles, hahaha.

Originally Posted by phlyle11

Pretty much sums up what I was thinking. All this analysis, then posting, then analysis, then posting. Geez, where do you find the time? It must suck to not enjoy something you are truly passionate about. If its that bad to your eyes, why not just stick to something you enjoy watching, and I think for a lot of people posting on this thread that would mean something with pristine picture quality that far outweighs the film content. In fact, "The Knowing" received 5 stars for PQ; why not just pop that in and marvel at those screenshots.

Because many people here are fans of A/V and film. They are not mutually exclusive. Someone railing on about how someone else can't just sit back and watch a film, well, I suppose I could rail on about how someone could not appreciate what this medium has to offer (this being a Blu Ray forum, after all.) If you're not a fan of A/V in any capacity I have no idea why you'd ever get the BD over the DVD, for example. If it's all about film content and not A/V quality why bother? People in this hobby actually enjoy analyzing video and audio quality, we don't see it as a chore - we see it as a hobby. I love film, but when they get the PQ and AQ spot on it greatly enhances the experience for me. When it's off, even slightly so, it has a negative impact (and this is the forum designed specifically to talk about that effect.)

Originally Posted by Berek

Did anyone else not get their Digital Copy codes? I bought mine at Best Buy and can't find them anywhere. There is no insert at all for them.

I guess it's not that big of a deal. I don't see how or why anyone would want to watch the EE's on a portable device. But at least it's good to have them.

Mine came slid in between the cases, along with ads for Harry Potter merchandise and Lord of the Rings collectibles.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by jebhdb

Never say never. I have frequented these boards for a couple of years now and have seen almost this exact situation take place multiple times. The studios always deny there is a problem until they feel their sales are adversely affected and then low and behold a corrected/alternate version shows up. I understand that the company line is that Peter Jackson approved the transfer and the color timing is correct, but I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future Fellowship is available minus the enhanced green tint.

This just happens to be the prettiest looking ugly mistake...

Originally Posted by can man

I make no argument. I deal in reality. And the reality is this version of the EE FOTR is the version Jackson approved. End of story. If you want to make an argument, call Mr. Jackson and tell him you don't like his tint.

When Jackson makes a statement about why he added an overall teal tint and underexposed the entire film, then it is definitive. I deal in reality as well, and the reality is that PR people will always make their product sound like it is perfect.

I'm active in the discussion on Mr. Jackson's Facebook page. He has stopped taking my calls.

[can man]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

When Jackson makes a statement about why he added an overall teal tint and underexposed the entire film, then it is definitive. I deal in reality as well, and the reality is that PR people will always make their product sound like it is perfect.

I'm active in the discussion on Mr. Jackson's Facebook page. He has stopped taking my calls.

No kidding........

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

This is why I bought the set, so I can say that it is still noticeable in motion. I'm happy that you don't perceive it, but it is still there. That's why people used Photoshop color levels to prove that it is there when it hadn't been there before.

I do perceive it for the most part. I'm just saying it's less noticeable in a moving image (the Gandalf vs. Saruman scene and the one long shot of the Fellowship on the mountain aside) than as a still. Motion pictures aren't intended to be viewed as still images.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by Danielle Ni Dhighe

I do perceive it for the most part. I'm just saying it's less noticeable in a moving image (the Gandalf vs. Saruman scene and the one long shot of the Fellowship on the mountain aside) than as a still. Motion pictures aren't intended to be viewed as still images.

I understand what you are saying, but it doesn't quite work for color and contrast issues. It's similar to the argument that your eyes will adjust. If my eyes need to adjust for me to enjoy it, then something is wrong. Usually the motion argument is best used for something like the detail of the image.

People got all up in arms over Back to the Future because of screenshots. I found that to be a little ridiculous because you have to look at the film stock used on the film and compare it to previous presentations (this works better with more recent releases than older, since it was brought to my attention that Taxi Driver on home video was struck numerous times from an incorrect master). When in motion, BTTF looked just fine. But there was never really an issue with the color or contrast.

The detail on Fellowship is gorgeous. No one will doubt that. However, the contrast issues and color issues don't really go away when it is in motion. Your mind focuses more on the story and less on the image. Just because you lost focus on the contrast and tint doesn't mean that it isn't there and is no longer a problem.

[ReverendSlim]

Originally Posted by bearscubsfan87

This has been the best post in this thread. That alone made it worth reading through all of the squabling.

Remember how I said that my bulb was getting ready to blow during The Two Towers? Well, tonight I figured, "Hey, I'm sure it will last another 4 hours at least... Let's watch Return Of The King!"

So the picture got more and more dim as the movie went on, and to compensate, I changed the Epson 8500UB to Living Room mode. So right as Gollum hits the damn lava, right as the ring touches the surface... POP! Like a freakin' gunshot! Scared the hell out of us! Great timing though!

New bulb is on the way... Guess I'll finish the last bit of ROTK when it comes in.

[Croweyes1121]

I think Jackson's official response to all this should be as follows: "It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing". lol

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

I think Jackson's official response to all this should be as follows: "It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing". lol

Good one! If he says that, here's my reply.

"Good Speech. Nice and short."
"Leaves more time for drinking!"

[Croweyes1121]

Originally Posted by workshed

good one! If he says that, here's my reply.

"good speech. Nice and short."
"leaves more time for drinking!"

haha!