The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Maybe it's just me, but your "fixed" version looks entirely too bright. They are in a room with low light and yet his face looks like someone has a spotlight on it.

Hi Goofnut,

It looks brighter than it did in the theatrical version, but I still believe it's correct. If you look at the scenes in Orthanc in TT, Saruman never looks as dark as he does here in the TE version except when he's walking through direct shadow. The levels I have in my "fixed" version are highly consistent with what's in TT even when he's in a dark room with no apparent light source, like when he's using the Palantir, or showing Wormtongue his explosive powder, etc.

Take care,
HeKS

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by 42041

I think this thread officially could not get any more tedious.

I really think the site programmers need to add an "ignore thread" feature

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Hi Goofnut,

It looks brighter than it did in the theatrical version, but I still believe it's correct. If you look at the scenes in Orthanc in TT, Saruman never looks as dark as he does here in the TE version except when he's walking through direct shadow. The levels I have in my "fixed" version are highly consistent with what's in TT even when he's in a dark room with no apparent light source, like when he's using the Palantir, or showing Wormtongue his explosive powder, etc.

Take care,
HeKS

If you say so. I still think it's too bright. It looks too artificial as if someone has turned up the contrast, which is exactly what you did. Look at the container of liquid to the left of the screen. It ends up looking like radioactive slime with your overdone contrast.

[Petyr_Baelish]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Right, and they would be light red or dark red and so forth. The EE DVD box is closer to dark red because it has some brown in it. Have you never mixed paints?

STOP. The boxset is not brown and we both know it. This is not up for further conversation. Cease and desist.

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Hi Goofnut,

It looks brighter than it did in the theatrical version, but I still believe it's correct. If you look at the scenes in Orthanc in TT, Saruman never looks as dark as he does here in the TE version except when he's walking through direct shadow. The levels I have in my "fixed" version are highly consistent with what's in TT even when he's in a dark room with no apparent light source, like when he's using the Palantir, or showing Wormtongue his explosive powder, etc.

Take care,
HeKS

To me, the TE images look perfect. Lots of rich color in them, and good flesh tones. The green tinted, and fixed ones look unnatural. Mind you, I have watched the EE DVDs for years now, so I am pretty familiar with their overall appearance.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

STOP. The boxset is not brown and we both know it. This is not up for further conversation. Cease and desist.

You must have had trouble with that class. I'm done with you.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

Could this mean that people who do not "notice" the green tint have an issue with their eyesight?

The thing is, you don't perceive the green tint as actual green. For me the result is a dull and drab image with off colors. This thing is highly subjective. Some people are virtually immune against color bias and others can't get over it.

For me it's so bad I can't even wear colored sunglasses because they disrupt my color perception. Gray is fine but green and brown are absolutely out of the question. I can't see properly with them.

[LordCrumb]

FFS, everytime I think im getting near the end of a page on this thread, another freaking one pops up!

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

If you say so. I still think it's too bright. It looks too artificial as if someone has turned up the contrast, which is exactly what you did. Look at the container of liquid to the left of the screen. It ends up looking like radioactive slime with your overdone contrast.

It's funny you should say that. I did not turn up the contrast. I reduced the contrast down to normal levels consistent with previous releases. The result is an image that looks brighter than the Theatrical version but consistent with every Orthanc scene in The Two Towers.

That said, if you think the liquid looks like radioactive sludge, I have to wonder if your monitor is calibrated ... unless we have a different idea of what radioactive looks like. Still, every indication is that this is an accurate representation of the new color grading prior to the green tint and contrast boost.

Originally Posted by DarkDune

To me, the TE images look perfect. Lots of rich color in them, and good flesh tones. The green tinted, and fixed ones look unnatural. Mind you, I have watched the EE DVDs for years now, so I am pretty familiar with their overall appearance.

I understand your immediate reaction to judge the fixed version against the Theatrical and DVD versions. I did that at first too and it got very confusing, but the fact of the matter is that FOTR was completely regraded from scratch. And so was TT, it seems. Certainly large parts of TT were. The result is that the image and coloring of FOTR, prior to the application of the green tint and contrast boost, is highly consistent with the other films now in a way that it never was before.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Hi Goofnut,

It looks brighter than it did in the theatrical version, but I still believe it's correct.

I'm not so sure about the contrast. The color fix is certainly ok but you should consider doing less changes to the rest. I find the overall colors of your fixed shots a tad too strong.

However, since your 'fix' filter gives almost similar results to both scenes which have very different lighting it's still a strong sign that the color and contrast filter really is uniform across the entire film. How about posting a larger set of images from different scenes using different lighting?

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

I'm not so sure about the contrast. The color fix is certainly ok but you should consider doing less changes to the rest. I find the overall colors of your fixed shots a tad too strong.

However, since your 'fix' filter gives almost similar results to both scenes which have very different lighting it's still a strong sign that the color and contrast filter really is uniform across the entire film. How about posting a larger set of images from different scenes using different lighting?

That's what I'm about to do

Gimme a few minutes.

HeKS

[Petyr_Baelish]

I don't know if you people have seen this yet, but here you go:

http://blubrew.com/2011/06/21/the-tw...ended-edition/

[HeKS]

In a previous post I said the following:

Originally Posted by HeKS

This issue needs to be broken down into 4 stages, starting with the EE DVD release.

Stage 1: The color timing as it exists on the DVD EE release of FOTR.

Stage 2: Color timing changes made to specific scenes (eg. Council of Elrond, Lothlorien) for the Blu EE release of FOTR.

Stage 3: The addition of a green tint applied over the entire Blu EE release of FOTR, including OVER the changes already made in Stage 2.

Stage 4: The addition of a massive contrast boost applied over the entire Blu EE release of FOTR, including OVER the changes already made in Stage 2.

Most of us think that the changes made at Stage 2 are actually improvements. I haven't actually noticed anyone saying otherwise.

Now I would like to show some examples of what I was talking about here ... what I believe to be representative of the changes at Stage 2 that improve the picture and coloring over the previous releases of FOTR, but which improvements have been attributed to the green tint at Stage 3.

Here is a sample of the Council of Elrong, where Frodo goes to put the ring on the pedestal. The TE version had an incredibly strong red/orange push to it. The EE version no longer had that at all, but now had a green push to it. The green push was given credit by some for the improvement over the TE look, but consider the "fixed" version with the green tint removed and the contrast reduced to normal levels.

Once again, no settings tweaks have been applied.



Here's another shot only present in the EE of Boromir standing up and talking while the others look on. Keep in mind that this council was held outside in fairly bright light and there should be nothing blocking the light being cast on the attendees or the meeting area. The EE version, because of the massive contrast boost, looks like it's being held inside of a room with light coming in the window, or at least under a roof of some sort. Notice these council pics now have a bit of the red hue back, but nowhere near as extreme as the previous release:



Here is Boromir in Lothlorien. I'm sure the same people might comment that it looks brighter, but notice that the contrast levels are actually very similar to the TE version while the EE contrast is higher (a good place to compare this is near Boromir's jawline and his neck. The EE version is brighter than the TE version at its base, even though the green tint and contrast boost tend to wash it out.

EDIT: Also, if you check the wide shot this comes from, there is a light source right where Boromir and Aragorn are located and the wide shot shows it to be shining directly on Boromir's face.



Even if ultimately people think that the contrast should be raised a bit again to make the image darker, the opinion would seem to be that this needs to be done across the board, which still means that the green tint and contrast boost are uniform across the film, which is still suggestive.

My next post will feature the dreaded "black crush".

HeKS

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

I don't know if you people have seen this yet, but here you go:

http://blubrew.com/2011/06/21/the-tw...ended-edition/

Thanks! The comparisons are great.

Originally Posted by HeKS

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6030/5895643595_731e9aa700_b.jpg

Your fix is dreadful, sorry. I still think the EE looks better than your fixes. A huge LOL at the first image of the TE with Frodo. How can anyone like that?

[Petyr_Baelish]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

Thanks! The comparisons are great.

Your fix is dreadful, sorry. I still think the EE looks better than your fixes. A huge LOL at the first image of the TE with Frodo. How can anyone like that?

42041's fixes were much better.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Yeah, I seriously doubt these transfers were messed with accidentally. PJ has been sitting on these for quite some time so I would it rather odd if he was not right there reviewing these transfers as they were being done. Unless Jackson comes out and says "Hey folks, I am sorry about this slight green tint. I was on vacation when they did the transfers." then I will continue to believe that the people watching Slimer TV simply have poorly calibrated displays.

Basic adjustments using DVE is far from a full calibration. Have you had your set calibrated, or have you just done basic adjustments using a test disc?

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

42071's fixes were much better.

Can you point me to these?

I think what you need to keep in mind is what I said in my first post this evening. I'm not aiming to do my own color grading here to get a "better" image. I'm showing what the underlying image is under the green tint and contrast boost. If anyone would like to question my methodology for arriving at the result, please feel free.

Still, how these fixes could be called dreadful, I'm not sure. I'm guessing it's by the same people who either claim the green tint isn't there or isn't a big issue and we should all stop talking about it.

By the way, please check my EDIT comment relating to Boromir in Lothlorien.

[Petyr_Baelish]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Can you point me to these?

I think what you need to keep in mind is what I said in my first post this evening. I'm not aiming to do my own color grading here to get a "better" image. I'm showing what the underlying image is under the green tint and contrast boost. If anyone would like to question my methodology for arriving at the result, please feel free.

Still, how these fixes could be called dreadful, I'm not sure. I'm guessing it's by the same people who either claim the green tint isn't there or isn't a big issue and we should all stop talking about it.

By the way, please check my EDIT comment relating to Boromir in Lothlorien.

There is no way I could find them. This was a couple of weeks ago, so they are god knows how many pages back.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

Thanks! The comparisons are great.

Your fix is dreadful, sorry. I still think the EE looks better than your fixes. A huge LOL at the first image of the TE with Frodo. How can anyone like that?

Let me guess ... too bright, right?

Did you see my EDIT comment relating to that pic?

Here it is:

EDIT: Also, if you check the wide shot this comes from, there is a light source right where Boromir and Aragorn are located and the wide shot shows it to be shining directly on Boromir's face.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

Your fix is dreadful, sorry. I still think the EE looks better than your fixes.

But only because the brightness has been pumped up too much, not for the colors. And did you read the bit about 'light source'?


Concerning the Rivendell scenes I think now they look like they should - bathed in red sunlight as if taking place during sunset which as I understand it was the intention for that location. The unaltered EE shot has nothing suggesting that.

Regarding the TE, yes, it's just dreadful (and to be honest, using that as a base for comparison is probably one of the reasons why the EE doesn't get bashed as much as it deserves.) I'd be much more interested in comparison shots from the EE DVD than that because those should demonstrate the changes much better.