The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

No, it does not ruin the film. The green tint seems to be worse with people who have poorly calibrated displays. If you're display is properly calibrated then the green tint should be slightly noticeable at best.

Poorly calibrated displays can make the tint worse or better. It goes both ways, depending on each poorly calibrated display's individual issues

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Basic adjustments using DVE is far from a full calibration. Have you had your set calibrated, or have you just done basic adjustments using a test disc?

The slightest tweaks to my properly calibrated display, particularly in regards to RGB offsets and gains, can worsen the tint or make it disappear altogether. I'm doing it now and it's amazing how dramatic a difference -- in both directions -- you can make by delving into your display's white point balance and 10p white balance. When each setting in both is set perfectly, the tint is noticeable. Keep in mind, displays don't ship with proper white point and 10p settings. Colors are heavily skewed in some cases. Simply using a calibration suite, even Disney's WOW disc, doesn't complete the job. To clarify: that doesn't mean everyone with perfectly calibrated white point and 10p balance will suddenly see the tint everywhere, but it can make a difference.

Now, whether it's distracting, obvious or apparent in every scene comes down to each person's imperfectly calibrated eyes

Here's the thing, gents. Those analyzing the tint and trying to evaluate its presence, effects and origin have a reason to keep discussing the tint itself. There are many nuances to examining it. Those who don't see the tint, though, don't have a reason to continually berate those who do, other than outrage. State your peace and opinion, detail your experience most definitely. But please don't attack those who do detect the tint and find it distracting. Disagree, sure. Offer civil counter points and counter-analysis, yes please!

I find it interesting that those who don't see the tint are not posting screenshots, analyses or objective evidence. Just personal experience and, sometimes, an unhealthy dose of insults. If the tint truly isn't noticeable, if it truly is a non-issue, if the crush and black-level problems aren't really there, please post objective evidence to counter the objective evidence being posted by those who do notice it all. I don't issue this as a challenge, but as a genuine invitation: prove it isn't an issue. It's an invitation I'd love to see at least one person accept. So far, I don't recall anyone from the "it's a non-issue" camp posting any of their own objective evidence to support their subjective experiences.

Don't get me wrong, your subjective experience is very, very, very valuable and puts the tint into perspective for many members. But countering objective evidence with objective evidence is the only way to win an objective debate. Actually, it's the only way to enter an objective debate, but we won't get into semantics. Well, more than we already are

I think it's obvious that it's getting way too heated in here. But, honestly, a good 80% of the anger is coming from those who don't see the tint anyway. It's strange - the people who should be overjoyed are the most upset. If the tint doesn't ruin your experience, don't let people talking about the tint ruin your experience. If you don't see it, be happy! Enjoy other threads! Watch FOTR again! Do exactly what you're saying those who notice the tint should be doing: just enjoying the movie and not worrying about analyzing every shot, point and comment that graces this thread. You're one of the lucky majority, so go out and enjoy your lucky majoritiness

[Petyr_Baelish]

hey all you people, how green does this scene look in the EE?

YouTube - ‪Arwen chase‬‏

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

But only because the brightness has been pumped up too much, not for the colors. And did you read the bit about 'light source'?

Let me give you something to compare. This is the same shot of Boromir in Lothlorien, however, I've removed the filter that fixes the contrast. What this sample shows you is exactly what the EE has but with the green filter removed. Notice how much brighter it is than the TE version to begin with, even though it still is affected by the super contrast boost. The contrast level in this fix is significantly higher than what you see in the TE sample:

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

hey all you people, how green does this scene look in the EE?

YouTube - ‪Arwen chase‬‏

Tricky one. It already had (and has) a lot of green to it. The key is to watch the water, particularly when the horses surge down the river bed (especially when the horses are fully formed). The white/light gray water exhibits the tint. I'm actually surprised this scene hasn't had more play from the screenshot crowd. The tint is easily measured by color analysis. Even though the screenshots are accurate, it isn't as obvious when watching the film, and certainly isn't one that should give too many people a headache

Here's a screenshot (a larger version can be found in my FOTR review):

[Petyr_Baelish]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Tricky one. It already had (and has) a lot of green to it. The key is to watch the water, particularly when the horses surge down the river bed (especially when the horses are fully formed). The white/light gray water exhibits the tint. I'm actually surprised this scene hasn't had more play from the screenshot crowd. The tint is easily measured by color analysis. Even though the screenshots are accurate, it isn't as obvious when watching the film, and certainly isn't one that should give too many people a headache

Here's a screenshot (a larger version can be found in my FOTR review):

I was particularly wondering about the shot of the water. Someone should get on that.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Let me give you something to compare. This is the same shot of Boromir in Lothlorien, however, I've removed the filter that fixes the contrast. What this sample shows you is exactly what the EE has but with the green filter removed. Notice how much brighter it is than the TE version to begin with, even though it still is affected by the super contrast boost. The contrast level in this fix is significantly higher than what you see in the TE sample:

I think this looks better than your 'contrast fixed' version which emphasizes the highlights too much.

It'd be interesting to compare pictures with or without that fix for various lighting levels as well.

I have to admit that I don't have that much of a problem with the contrast - which to me still looks fine. Please don't use the TE as reference here because I have seen several scenes there where the contrast was off, too, just in the opposite direction (not enough as opposed to too much)

[motorheadache95]

HeKS' fixes are far from "dreadful." They are quite interesting, actually. It almost seems as if Peter Jackson changed the color-timing to get a more natural looks from those Rivendel scenes. And they DO look more natural, once the green-tinting is removed. Makes me think more and more that the tinting is some kind of error on somebody's part.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

I think this looks better than your 'contrast fixed' version which emphasizes the highlights too much.

It'd be interesting to compare pictures with or without that fix for various lighting levels as well.

I have to admit that I don't have that much of a problem with the contrast - which to me still looks fine. Please don't use the TE as reference here because I have seen several scenes there where the contrast was off, too, just in the opposite direction (not enough as opposed to too much)

Hey Karl,

The problem is that FOTR has a consistent super contrast boost across the film. You might think that the heightened contrast here fits the mood better, and you might be right, but like I said, I'm not trying to do my own color grade. There are numerous scenes in FOTR, particularly in Moria, but also in Bree I think, that show the consistent contrast is FAR too high.

So, if I want to get back to what I think was the intent of the color changes before the green tint and contrast boost, both of which are consistent, I can't leave off the contrast fix just because I think it might work in some particular scene. That's what I'd do if I was doing my own color grade, but that's not what I'm trying to accomplish. Generally speaking, the new color grade on FOTR is brighter all-around than previous versions. This is noticeable if you look in the highlights of the images. It's just that the green tint and contrast boost make a lot of things so drab that you don't notice the image is often brighter in the light areas than it used to be.

Remember, the heightened contrast lends itself to extremes, so the areas of the image that it is most affected in the two versions of that sample are the midtones between the darkest and lightest parts. The contrast of my second sample without the contrast fix loses detail that is visible in the TE version.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by HeKS

So, if I want to get back to what I think was the intent of the color changes before the green tint and contrast boost, both of which are consistent,

Understood, but to make this clear it would probably be better to post 2 new images - one without and one with the contrast change to get a better idea how it works.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

HeKS' fixes are far from "dreadful." They are quite interesting, actually. It almost seems as if Peter Jackson changed the color-timing to get a more natural looks from those Rivendel scenes. And they DO look more natural, once the green-tinting is removed. Makes me think more and more that the tinting is some kind of error on somebody's part.

Thanks motorheadache95,

The fact of the matter is that everything indicates to me that the intended color changes to FOTR pretty consistently veered toward making the picture look more natural and bright and the same was done for the other films, which are definitely not identical to the theatrical versions.

Almost across the board, as soon as the green tint is removed you notice that the bright areas of the picture are brighter than previous releases. That's even when the contrast issue remains. As soon as you account for the consistent contrast boost, the detail in the midtones comes back (provided it wasn't fully lost in the crush) and the resulting image is brighter than the old releases when using contrast levels that are comparable to the previous releases.

[Jimmy Bro]

So are they going to re-release the Theatrical versions with this green tint transfer?

Cos I'm thinking of buying both the Theatrical and the EE's (cos I like having the option to watch both) and it might be weird if one looks different due to not having tint :P

Also, why not include the theatrical version on the same disc? Like they did with Avatar.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

Understood, but to make this clear it would probably be better to post 2 new images - one without and one with the contrast change to get a better idea how it works.

Ok, I'll try it for the Boromir at the council image

Gimme a minute.

HeKS

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

Understood, but to make this clear it would probably be better to post 2 new images - one without and one with the contrast change to get a better idea how it works.

Here's the Boromir at the council pic:

[Petyr_Baelish]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Here's the Boromir at the council pic:

The full fix is no good. It looks too natural and the sets start to look fake.

Which they are, but we aren't supposed to see that.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

The full fix is no good. It looks too natural and the sets start to look fake.

Which they are, but we aren't supposed to see that.

What do you think about this full fix? It has the contrast fix but no brightness boost.

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by HeKS

What do you think about this full fix? It has the contrast fix but no brightness boost.

...looks pretty good.

[Petyr_Baelish]

Originally Posted by HeKS

What do you think about this full fix? I has the contrast fix but no brightness boost.

Its slightly improved, but still soulless. The scene needs an unnatural look to be more credible. If you watched that full fixed version on your television: you'd think you were watching a stage performance if it weren't for the musical score.

[Karl Murks]

I still prefer the middle image with only the tint fix - but none of the 2 look offensive to me like the green one.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

Its slightly improved, but still soulless. The scene needs an unnatural look to be more credible. If you watched that full fixed version on your television: you'd think you were watching a stage performance if it weren't for the musical score.

I think you might be making a judgment that has more to do with the composition of the shot than the coloring. The shot is so wide and all-encompassing that it does feel like a play. Does a green tint help to make you think you aren't watching a play in this particular shot? Sure. But so would a purple tint, or anything that made you think you couldn't be looking at something that was right in front of you.

I think you might need to see the scene in motion to get a better sense of what it really looks like

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

I still prefer the middle image with only the tint fix - but none of the 2 look offensive to me like the green one.

I get your preference, but I'm about 99% sure that the one with just the tint-fix is not accurate to PJ's intent under the theory that he would not intentionally apply a consistent green tint and contrast boost as a blanket across the film.