The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

I don't know if you people have seen this yet, but here you go:

http://blubrew.com/2011/06/21/the-tw...ended-edition/

OH MY GOD, all the blues are GREEN on the Theatrical Edition of Two Towers!!!!! Retroactive boycott!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

OH MY GOD, all the blues are GREEN on the Theatrical Edition of Two Towers!!!!! Retroactive boycott!!!!!!!!!!!

So? That's selective grading of one single scene, not a single color constant tint over the entire film.

[amoergosum]

Here's my fix of a different screenshot (Blu-ray.com review screenshot)
>>>

[Petyr_Baelish]

Originally Posted by HeKS

I think you might be making a judgment that has more to do with the composition of the shot than the coloring. The shot is so wide and all-encompassing that it does feel like a play. Does a green tint help to make you think you aren't watching a play in this particular shot? Sure. But so would a purple tint, or anything that made you think you couldn't be looking at something that was right in front of you.

I think you might need to see the scene in motion to get a better sense of what it really looks like

I'm certainly not one who prefers the green tint. I actually prefer the orange glow in the TE. Though the green in the rivendale scene isn't particularly problematic as other scenes. The color isn't the only thing I'm talking about right now though.You seem to prefer as much detail as possible and that is why you despise the contrast boost. You prefer a more natural look that accommodates plenty of detail. While detail is great, and I certainly support the blu ray format: too much detail can become problematic in certain situations.

For example, the scene in alien where the acid from the alien is burning through the floor: it is quite evident that the floor is made of styrofoam. Because of the amount of detail present in the frame, the artificiality of the sets becomes apparent: and the detail starts to diminish the credibility of the film. Detail is best when it is serving the film: which it does most of the time.

Originally Posted by amoergosum

Here's my fix of a different screenshot (Blu-ray.com review screenshot)
>>>

There, the full fix looks great.

[BleedingEdge]

HeKS,

I made a post many pages back in response to your initial recolorings. I think you were suspended at the time, and it got lost in the mix. It didn't help that I didn't have the time to post proper screenshots.

I used the screenshots on Blubrew.com, assuming they were correct. If they are not, I can try this again with some direct frame rips provided. I pulled the shots into one of my coloring programs to see exactly what was done to the image.

Image 1 - Theatrical Edition:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64762175@N07/5896696498/

Notice how the histogram shows color spread across the entire luma range. This is generally what scanned film looks like (standard exposure without color filters, with perhaps a B&W brand or similar ND filter being used which have the tendency to lean warm) or digital footage that has been prepared for grading. Also note the vectorscope (the circle with color proportions) leans halfway between BLUE and CYAN.

Image 2 - Extended Edition
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64762175@N07/5896696450/

The first thing you'll probably notice (besides the visual color change) is the 20% drop in the master gain on the histogram. Look carefully at the RED channel. The pedastal has been lowered an additional 10%, clipping the entire bottom end (notice the waveform similarities to the other two color channels and where it has been cut). Everything below 0 here is unrecoverable. Also, look at the vectorscope in comparison to the original color scheme. It definitely leans into CYAN territory.

In my view, no "green" has been added, but the overall luminance has been cut 20% and RED has been subtracted from the image, resulting in a mix of the leftover BLUE and GREEN (resulting in CYAN). I've tried normalizing the colors to appear similar to the TE, but the 10% loss in red is pretty well impossible to compensate for. Any attempts to raise the pedastal results in the shadows turning in unatural red color. I made no attempt at analysing or correcting contrast changes.

[Troy73]

Nice to see everyone's finally moved on.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

I'm certainly not one who prefers the green tint. I actually prefer the orange glow in the TE. Though the green in the rivendale scene isn't particularly problematic as other scenes. The color isn't the only thing I'm talking about right now though.You seem to prefer as much detail as possible and that is why you despise the contrast boost. You prefer a more natural look that accommodates plenty of detail. While detail is great, and I certainly support the blu ray format: too much detail can become problematic in certain situations.

For example, the scene in alien where the acid from the alien is burning through the floor: it is quite evident that the floor is made of styrofoam. Because of the amount of detail present in the frame, the artificiality of the sets becomes apparent: and the detail starts to diminish the credibility of the film. Detail is best when it is serving the film: which it does most of the time.



There, the full fix looks great.

I don't think so. I think it looks too warm and bright and that's always been the problem with FOTR. Like it or not it is now, thanks to the new color grading, more in line color wise with the sequels. Many people on here are finally starting to notice this. Interestingly enough, much of the credit to people seeing the improvement in this release is thanks to your and others "corrected" screen shots. So please keep them coming .

[Petyr_Baelish]

Originally Posted by Troy73

I don't think so. I think it looks too warm and bright and that's always been the problem with FOTR. Like it or not it is now, thanks to the new color grading, more in line color wise with the sequels. Many people on here are finally starting to notice this. Interestingly enough, much of the credit to people seeing the improvement in this release is thanks to your and others "corrected" screen shots. So please keep them coming .

Hobbiton needs to be warm and bright so that we can clearly identify what it is exactly that frodo is trying to preserve by going on his great quest. Remember sam's speech at the end of the two towers? Hobbiton is supposed to be the exact opposite of Mordor.

Not to mention the tone of the beginning is supposed to be warm: as darkness has not yet come into play.

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

Hobbiton needs to be warm and bright so that we can clearly identify what it is exactly that frodo is trying to preserve by going on his great quest. Remember sam's speech at the end of the two towers? Hobbiton is supposed to be the exact opposite of Mordor.

Not to mention the tone of the beginning is supposed to be warm: as darkness has not yet come into play.

That's exactly how I feel about it.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by Troy73

Nice to see everyone's finally moved on.

Why should we? I think the technical discussion of the color changes is really interesting unlike the endless regurgitating of subjective impressions. More of that, please!

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

Not to mention the tone of the beginning is supposed to be warm: as darkness has not yet come into play.

Also exemplified by the playful music in the entire Hobbiton sequence which is quite a contrast to all the rest that comes before and after.

Hobbiton is a place that's supposed to feel comfortable and the more neutral colors strongly enhance that.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by PGW

"One sided complaining"? HUH? What's THAT supposed to mean? Am I supposed to say something NICE about the pukey green tint everytime I mention how much I hate it? Yeah, sure.

I've got a better idea. Why don't you let other people express their opinions without insulting them, and offering up repeated posts that don't even address any issues with the LOTR blu-rays, but simply exist for no other reason than to whine that you're being "forced" to read opinions you don't want to hear?

Here's an idea for you, why don't you be pro-active with your complaining and petition for change at the source as in WB or Peter Jackson. Last time I read one of your posts you said you don't even own this. Yeah, that's why your tantrum b!tching doesn't hold water to me.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

Why should we? I think the technical discussion of the color changes is really interesting unlike the endless regurgitating of subjective impressions. More of that, please!

I agree. Forum members HeKS, MEB, Ken Brown and some others, even though I don't agree completely with, I actually enjoy some of their analysis and leg work with the screen shots and research of how our eyes recognize colors and tints. However, there are a few on here that post to only jump onto one of those members well thought out replies or to make uneducated, "I don't own these blu's but I saw screen shots and they suck" type of posts.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Troy73

I don't think so. I think it looks too warm and bright and that's always been the problem with FOTR. Like it or not it is now, thanks to the new color grading, more in line color wise with the sequels. Many people on here are finally starting to notice this. Interestingly enough, much of the credit to people seeing the improvement in this release is thanks to your and others "corrected" screen shots. So please keep them coming .

It's not in line with the sequels whatsoever. Please post some greenshots of TTT or ROTK.

I wanted to love this transfer. I love this movie as much as any of you. Yet I can still admit it's borked.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

If I could get one wish to come true regarding this whole issue,

It would be that all the deniers, people scoffing, people stubbornly insisting this green tint is perfect.

But see, that's just it man. Even though some of us feel strongly that this release is good. I have no idea what's happening to these screen grabs people are putting up. Yes, they look aweful, but, I've seen in this very thread that forum members are very capable of manipulating the images to show what they want to show. I have to question any screen shot good or bad. Then you have people like me who own and have watched it and it's no where near what's ranted about and displayed in this thread. When we post counter arguments to the extreme posters who want to only complain about the green tint we're met with the same hostility that we're accused of.

[Troy73]

@El_Jay
I'm glad you love this movie, so do I. I just don't agree that this is a flaw or defect.

[Lope de Aguirre]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

Part of the issue about the "green" tint is that adding an overall green tint to any film or video presentation has the effect of dulling colors and the dynamic range of the moving images. For those who have watched the Extended Editions of the Lord of the Rings films for years now, I think we can all agree that even on DVD it was clear that the color pallet of all the films was very richly detailed. You could pick out the different colors of each of the Hobbit's coats, and they were truly in no way the same color. I think the won Oscars for the costuming on these films -- I'll have to check.

So, anyone who feels it is a pointless exercise to voice concern about what appears to be an authoring mistake, I would ask that you take the time to understand and appreciate where we are coming from. The "tint" has the effect of changing our reactions to the film from "drooling" at the color, to almost feeling sick at the image. It isn't something to turn your nose up at

Exactly.
Not only are some scenes ugly or at least less good than before.
FOTR was a visual journey with blue night lightning, blue Isengard, white snow, redish Hobbiton and Rivendell and so on.
Now everything looks green or greenish.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by Troy73

But see, that's just it man. You just contradicted yourself. Even though some of us feel strongly that this release is good. I have no idea what's happening to these screen grabs people are putting up. Yes, they look aweful, but, I've seen in this very thread that forum members are very capable of manipulating the images to show what they want to show.

Believe it or not, all the screengrabs people post are directly off the actual BluRays. Any manipulation would be utterly self-defeating.

Do you really think this is a conspiracy by some delusional nutjobs? If that was the case, where are the pictures showing something else? I have yet to see even one single image off the FotR EE BluRay that's not greenified.

Hell, even the photo by Bill Hunt, one of the quickest apologists of all, clearly shows the green, albeit not as strong due to overexposure when photographing the monitor.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Here's the Boromir at the council pic:

The tint fix and the full fix both look like something shot on video. The actual screen shot leans toward green but looks like film.

[Troy73]

Believe it or not, all the screengrabs people post are directly off the actual BluRays. Any manipulation would be utterly self-defeating.

Would it? Not if they are trying to justify some of the extreme posts I've read.

Do you really think this is a conspiracy by some delusional nutjobs?

Actually, no I don't. However, I can't be 100% sure now can I? I have never denied there is a green tint. In fact, I know there is. What I'm seeing as a result of it is in no way a detriment IMO.

If that was the case, where are the pictures showing something else? I have yet to see even one single image off the FotR EE BluRay that's not greenified.

That's a fair point.

Hell, even the photo by Bill Hunt, one of the quickest apologists of all, clearly shows the green, albeit not as strong due to overexposure when photographing the monitor.

I like Bill and have a lot of respect for him and all he's done.
What I want to be clear about is, I have no issue with people discussing the green tint. I do have an issue with some of the people who are commenting that are simply aligning themselves with others so they can pointlessly complain. I know that a lot of you guys see that but, you may be turning a blind eye to it because they agree with your sentiments. That's not good for this thread if your intention is truly to educate the masses on this issue. You know what I'm saying?

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Troy73

Wow, for all your talk you sure do come off quite different here, now don't you.
Real quick, where's the official statement that said this is a flawed release? Oh, that's right, there isn't one. Stop confusing your opinion with any actual facts.
I'm glad you love this movie, so do I. I just don't agree that this is a flaw or defect.

I was only replying to your quote with the first bit of my post, the rest of it was directed at that general "side" of the argument.