The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Maggot

Go have a look at the recently released It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World and then tell me if you think LOTR Fellowship or for that matter the other two films in the series are detailed, rich and bold. Look at The Ten Commandments and try to say the same thing about the LOTR series. It can't be done, sorry.

I have Ten Commandments. And I CAN say FOTR looks exactly as Ken described it. Sorry.

But you want to compare something shot in 70mm (It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World) to something shot in regular 35? Give me a break. Of course it'll most likely look superior, its a larger negative. Come up with something better than that, we aren't all dumb and swayed by every little opinion posted on the internet.

[Romansh]

Originally Posted by 4K display

Disc capacity was a huge selling point for BD.

Maybe over HD-DVD?

Actually, when you think about it, you can fit less content on an HD-DVD at typical 1080p bitrates than you can fit on a DVD at typical SD bitrates. Example:

1080p video (~25 Mbps) + lossless audio (~3 Mbps) on a 30 GB disc gives you about 2 hours and 23 minutes*

SD video (~6.5 Mbps) + DTS audio (~768 Kbps) on a 8.5 GB disc gives you about 2 hours and 36 minutes* (… !)

Blu-ray is actually an improvement over DVD in that regard, as you can fit high quality 1080p (~30 Mbps) with high quality lossless audio (easily ~5 Mbps if required) and still have room for a tad over 3 hours of video*. But it's just not as large as to fulfill some people's (somewhat unreasonable) expectations…

* That's very theoretical as it doesn't count menus or overhead introduced by having multiple angles, multiple cuts of the movie or things like Maximum Movie Mode

[HeavyHitter]

This may sound harsh to some of you - especially the loudest complainers of this disc - but unless you've had your display calibrated by one of the top, professional, traveling ISF calibrators, your opinion doesn't mean much at all in terms of judging color. No offense at all, but it's just the truth.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

This may sound harsh to some of you - especially the loudest complainers of this disc - but unless you've had your display calibrated by one of the top, professional, traveling ISF calibrators, your opinion doesn't mean much at all in terms of judging color. No offense at all, but it's just the truth.

I accept this.

I'd like all those who meet this criteria to tell us whether or not they see a green tint.

Ooh, the suspense is going to kill me!

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

This may sound harsh to some of you - especially the loudest complainers of this disc - but unless you've had your display calibrated by one of the top, professional, traveling ISF calibrators, your opinion doesn't mean much at all in terms of judging color. No offense at all, but it's just the truth.

Not true at all. It won't be as optimal as a professional ISF job would be (I have a set that's been ISF'ed) that'll go into depth with things like greyscale but you can do wonders with a self calibration, and it'll be a night and day difference between out-of-factory torch mode. There are many, many test patterns (as well as color filters to look through) you can run afterwards and during to ensure you're getting exactly the right color, brightness/contrast, white balance, artificial sharpening (or more specifically the lack thereof), etc. If the TV was not properly calibrated these test patters and color tests would not be displaying properly, and if you've done a decent job they will be.

Modern HDTV's are actually very customizable when it comes to these things and a self-calibration can produce superb results.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

This may sound harsh to some of you - especially the loudest complainers of this disc - but unless you've had your display calibrated by one of the top, professional, traveling ISF calibrators, your opinion doesn't mean much at all in terms of judging color. No offense at all, but it's just the truth.

Mine has been calibrated by LionAV. Really makes you aware after getting it done just how bad the image, I thought was good, really was. If you can invest in the HDTV and the Blu-ray player, Home theater receiver, speakers, etc. kicking out a few hundred for professional calibration is a must. Those that disagree with me don't know what their missing.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

I accept this.

I'd like all those who meet this criteria to tell us whether or not they see a green tint.

Ooh, the suspense is going to kill me!

Well, I've had my display calibrated by one of the top guys, and I do see a very slight, bluish-teal to the skies and the scene with the ring in the snow. However, I believe it is subtle and it looks NOTHING like the screencaps on our uncalibrated monitors. I certainly see a lot of the color changes. Some of the colors on the costumes come out a bit more; especially some of the greens. The whites have been toned down quite a bit; the scene with the four hobbits in the snow doesn't look anything like the screenshot on my monitor either. I too was fearful at those images, but the disc looks far better and really impressive, overall. Great contrast, blacks, and shadows. I like the way it looks better than the theatrical version.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Not true at all. It won't be as optimal as a professional ISF job would be (I have a set that's been ISF'ed) that'll go into depth with things like greyscale but you can do wonders with a self calibration, and it'll be a night and day difference between out-of-factory torch mode. There are many, many test patterns (as well as color filters to look through) you can run afterwards and during to ensure you're getting exactly the right color, brightness/constrast, white balance, artificial sharpening (or more specifically the lack thereof), etc. If the TV was not properly calibrated these test patters and color tests would not be displaying properly, and if you've done a decent job they will be.

Modern HDTV's are actually very customizable when it comes to these things.

I respectfully disagree. I've seen no set without professional calibration that can nail gray scale or even correct color. Even if you get a test disc, which is better than nothing, it doesn't come close to a pro-cal. You say you've had it done then you know what I say is true.

Edit: I see that's what you are saying, my apologies.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

This may sound harsh to some of you - especially the loudest complainers of this disc - but unless you've had your display calibrated by one of the top, professional, traveling ISF calibrators, your opinion doesn't mean much at all in terms of judging color. No offense at all, but it's just the truth.

I've had mine calibrated and I can clearly see the green tint. In a majority of the film, it doesn't bother me. I think The Shire looks horrid... most notably, the skies, and the scene with all the yellow flowers, etc. But really, I think the color changes are better for the film more often than not. I think making the assumption that those without problems are only people who no nothing about calibration or how a properly calibrated picture should look is kinda silly. Many of us here are tech, and A/V geeks are still like the color timing.

[petmic10]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

This may sound harsh to some of you - especially the loudest complainers of this disc - but unless you've had your display calibrated by one of the top, professional, traveling ISF calibrators, your opinion doesn't mean much at all in terms of judging color. No offense at all, but it's just the truth.

Not true and I don't take offense, with the proper tools an
exceptional calibration can be done by most. Now, not everyone
has the money to purchase a meter so a professional would be
the best solution.

I've calibrated my Pioneer PRO-151FD with an I1pro meter, calman
software using a Spears and Munsil calibration disc. My panel is
spot on and I touch it up every 6 months or so. I see the green
in Fellowship on my panel.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Well, I've had my display calibrated by one of the top guys, and I do see a very slight, bluish-teal to the skies and the scene with the ring in the snow. However, I believe it is subtle and it looks NOTHING like the screencaps on our uncalibrated monitors. I certainly see a lot of the color changes. Some of the colors on the costumes come out a bit more; especially some of the greens. The whites have been toned down quite a bit; the scene with the four hobbits in the snow doesn't look anything like the screenshot on my monitor either. I too was fearful at those images, but the disc looks far better and really impressive, overall. Great contrast, blacks, and shadows. I like the way it looks better than the theatrical version.

I have a professionally calibrated HD XBR960 CRT as an alternate display at home that I use sometimes to gauge black levels. It's renowned for it's color reproduction and black levels (that has yet to be topped). I also work in an engineering firm and we have professionally calibrated displays we work with.

The screen caps are 100% indicative of how it looks.

Which makes sense, considering those are actual captures of the data on the discs themselves. There's nothing at all "fishy" about those captures.

In fact, the more properly calibrated you display is the more likely you are to see these sorts of issues.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Not true at all. It won't be as optimal as a professional ISF job would be (I have a set that's been ISF'ed) that'll go into depth with things like greyscale but you can do wonders with a self calibration, and it'll be a night and day difference between out-of-factory torch mode. There are many, many test patterns (as well as color filters to look through) you can run afterwards and during to ensure you're getting exactly the right color, brightness/contrast, white balance, artificial sharpening (or more specifically the lack thereof), etc. If the TV was not properly calibrated these test patters and color tests would not be displaying properly, and if you've done a decent job they will be.

Modern HDTV's are actually very customizable when it comes to these things and a self-calibration can produce superb results.

Color filters are only semi-accurate and it is IMPOSSIBLE to calibrate your grayscale to 6500K by eyeballing. If you really have a set that's been ISF'd properly, you would know this. You would also know how crucial it is to the foundation of the image to have a 6500K grayscale. Proper color saturation means nothing if you color primaries and grayscale is off.

Sure, using DVE, Avia, etc. is better than nothing as you can at least get brightness, contrast, color saturation, tint, and sharpness under reasonable control part that's only a small part of the overall "color" picture.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Color filters are only semi-accurate and it is IMPOSSIBLE to calibrate your grayscale to 6500K by eyeballing. If you really have a set that's been ISF'd properly, you would know this. You would also know how crucial it is to the foundation of the image to have a 6500K grayscale. Proper color saturation means nothing if you color primaries and grayscale is off.

Sure, using DVE, Avia, etc. is better than nothing as you can at least get brightness, contrast, color saturation, tint, and sharpness under reasonable control part that's only a small part of the overall "color" picture.

To claim that you can't have somewhat accurate color reproduction and brightness/contrast by self-calibrating is absurd, and this is coming from someone with sets that have been self-calibrated and professionally calibrated. The difference between a torched set and a self-calibrated set is night and day. Sorry, that's just elitist.

I can see the overbearing tint more so on my professionally calibrated HD CRT precisely because it reproduces everything so accurately, and the black crush is absurdly evident on that set as well. If you can't detect these issues (heavy color biases, contrast issues,) more easily on your professionally calibrated display then it's a poor job, because that should make it MORE evident, not less.

And like I said, those screens are 100% accurate. They are what's on the disc.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

In fact, the more properly calibrated you display is the more likely you are to see these sorts of issues.

I agree. It is there and it's subtle.

However, if your display is not calibrated correctly it seems you either, don't see it or it's horrendous. Neither of which is representative of what's on this disc.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Well, I've had my display calibrated by one of the top guys, and I do see a very slight, bluish-teal to the skies and the scene with the ring in the snow. However, I believe it is subtle and it looks NOTHING like the screencaps on our uncalibrated monitors. I certainly see a lot of the color changes. Some of the colors on the costumes come out a bit more; especially some of the greens. The whites have been toned down quite a bit; the scene with the four hobbits in the snow doesn't look anything like the screenshot on my monitor either. I too was fearful at those images, but the disc looks far better and really impressive, overall. Great contrast, blacks, and shadows. I like the way it looks better than the theatrical version.

Does it look consistent with TTT or ROTK whatsoever? Based on the look of the other two movies, do you think a blanket tint was truly an artistic decision?

I agree that the tint is not anywhere near as objectionable while watching the movie as it is in those screens, but I don't think it can even be debated anymore whether or not it's there, pro calibration or not.

Those screen caps are taking exactly what is on the disc as binary data and reproducing them, it's not imposing it's own color scheme or alterations on them.

I thought we'd all at least acknowledged that the issue is people's subjective perception of things, of the eyes ability to self-regulate for color balance, of just how much they personally feel the tint detracts, or doesn't, from their viewing experience... but what do I know?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

I have a professionally calibrated HD XBR960 CRT as an alternate display at home that I use sometimes to gauge black levels. It's renowned for it's color reproduction and black levels (that has yet to be topped). I also work in an engineering firm and we have professionally calibrated displays we work with.

The screen caps are 100% indicative of how it looks.

Which makes sense, considering those are actual captures of the data on the discs themselves. There's nothing at all "fishy" about those captures.

In fact, the more properly calibrated you display is the more likely you are to see these sorts of issues.

Part of the problem is, very, very few have properly calibrated PC monitors...myself included. So, who knows what the screenshots really look like; all I know is the actual disc looks FAR, FAR better than what I am seeing on my monitor. It's a goregous disc. This seems to be in agreement with what MOST people are seeing including Bill Hunt, Robert Harris, and others who have commented on this disc in motion vs what they are seeing on their monitors.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Troy73

I agree. It is there and it's subtle.

However, if your display is not calibrated correctly it seems you either, don't see it or it's horrendous. Neither of which is representative of what's on this disc.

I don't think that's even remotely close to the truth.

The guys who've gone to the greatest lengths to display just how distasteful the green tint is have often been the guys with the most home theatre 'cred' with pro calibrated systems, like Mark Booth.

The green tint really isn't that subtle at all, either, if you look for it. It becomes even more apparent when you watch the other 2 movies shortly after finishing FOTR.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Part of the problem is, very, very few have properly calibrated PC monitors...myself included. So, who knows what the screenshots really look like; all I know is the actual disc looks FAR, FAR better than what I am seeing on my monitor. It's a goregous disc. This seems to be in agreement with what MOST people are seeing including Bill Hunt, Robert Harris, and others who have commented on this disc in motion vs what they are seeing on their monitors.

Maybe so, but that's why people post the TE and DVD screens as control variables.

It may not be exactly as it was intended to look for either edition, but it certainly does a fine job at pointing out just how markedly different the two color schemes are.

Unless you're suggesting that with a professionally calibrated monitor, both sets of screens, TE and EE, look the same?

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Part of the problem is, very, very few have properly calibrated PC monitors...myself included. So, who knows what the screenshots really look like; all I know is the actual disc looks FAR, FAR better than what I am seeing on my monitor. It's a goregous disc. This seems to be in agreement with what MOST people are seeing including Bill Hunt, Robert Harris, and others who have commented on this disc in motion vs what they are seeing on their monitors.

Exactly, Robert Harris actually being a film restoration expert speaks far louder than any of us here.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Part of the problem is, very, very few have properly calibrated PC monitors...myself included. So, who knows what the screenshots really look like; all I know is the actual disc looks FAR, FAR better than what I am seeing on my monitor. It's a goregous disc. This seems to be in agreement with what MOST people are seeing including Bill Hunt, Robert Harris, and others who have commented on this disc in motion vs what they are seeing on their monitors.

I can't speak to your monitor, or what you're seeing on it, but the screens on my monitor are very green, and they're just as green on my sets. There are just as many professional reviewers (if not more) that have gone into great detail about the tint issues than haven't. See this site's official review, or High Def Digest, Or Blu Brew, etc.

Sorry, it's there. Whether or not you specfically can see it (I can, easily) is one thing, whether or not it's there is something else.