The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Does it look consistent with TTT or ROTK whatsoever? Based on the look of the other two movies, do you think a blanket tint was truly an artistic decision?

I agree that the tint is not anywhere near as objectionable while watching the movie as it is in those screens, but I don't think it can even be debated anymore whether or not it's there, pro calibration or not.

Those screen caps are taking exactly what is on the disc as binary data and reproducing them, it's not imposing it's own color scheme or alterations on them.

I thought we'd all at least acknowledged that the issue is people's subjective perception of things, of the eyes ability to self-regulate for color balance, of just how much they personally feel the tint detracts, or doesn't, from their viewing experience... but what do I know?

I've only watched Fellowship so far.

Yes, I do see a very, very slight bluish-teal tint such as in shot with the ring in the snow, but, man it's so subtle. Same with some of the sky scenes. Whites are toned down - almost an eggshell coloring - such as when the four hobbits are standing together in the one snow show. It's like an off white that might hint towards green, but there is no green snow if that makes sense. And it's very, very subtle.

What stands out MORE to me is some of the colors in the costumes; these are far more apparent. Some changes have been made.

There are other color changes, as well. No question A LOT.

However, nothing stands out as an "error" or issue to me...and again...they look NOTHING like the screenshots I see on two different, newer Dell LCD PC monitors I have access to (which again, are not calibrated).

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Troy73

Exactly, Robert Harris actually being a film restoration expert speaks far louder than any of us here.

RAH doesn't deny that the green tint is there, though.

Most people aren't saying it looks exactly like the screens when it's in motion, and most, including myself, agree that it does look gorgeous. I just think it could easily look better and think that the tint is a technical error, a mistake, since it's not apparent in any of the other movies or versions of FOTR itself, and affects continuity.

This horse was beaten to death at least 300 pages ago.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Maybe so, but that's why people post the TE and DVD screens as control variables.

It may not be exactly as it was intended to look for either edition, but it certainly does a fine job at pointing out just how markedly different the two color schemes are.

Unless you're suggesting that with a professionally calibrated monitor, both sets of screens, TE and EE, look the same?

I have A/B'd both the theatrical and extended Blus. There are vast color differences and changes. No question. However, I see nothing objectionable and nothing like the screenshots at all. There is no "blanket tint" applied to the entire film. Yes, whites have been toned down throughout the entire movie, but they were way overblown and too bright on the theatrical version.

[STRYKKER]

I have NO problem with Color change in Fellowship....my problem is the LOSS of detail in Shadows/Dark scenes

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by STRYKKER

I have NO problem with Color change in Fellowship....my problem is the LOSS of detail in Shadows/Dark scenes

Where's your gamma curve at? Mine's at 2.2 and shadow detail looks wonderful.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by amoergosum

...how could anyone defend these color differences?
It's the same scene!

You can't compare flashback scenes. Because the flashbacks for FOTR on ROTK was made with the same remaster they did for ROTK even in the theaters and EE along time ago.

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Notice the post a just a few posts down (#3550) pretty much proves the *gasp* there were always color differences between FotR and TTT/RotK flashback sequences.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/59616

Discuss/argue about the green tint till were blue in the face but the fact remains that there were apparently always color differences between the flashback sequences (differences we apparently never cared about before, or never noticed because their only now being brought to attention of most forum-goers); so trying to use the differences now to prove a "mistake" is an invalid argument.

yep thats just what i said in my post. What will the poeple do that would put their head on a block that say it is a mistake in the transfer

Even warner confirmed that their is no mistake and if PJ comes out and says something about this he also will say it is intended.
What will they then do. Will they not believe him also

Just saying they better be prepared for it to be intentional. Because it is. Some people even saw it at the theater and if its there there is no mistake with the transfer and what is on the discs is the real mccoy

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I've only watched Fellowship so far.

Yes, I do see a very, very slight bluish-teal tint such as in shot with the ring in the snow, but, man it's so subtle. Same with some of the sky scenes. Whites are toned down - almost an eggshell coloring - such as when the four hobbits are standing together in the one snow show. It's like an off white that might hint towards green, but there is no green snow if that makes sense. And it's very, very subtle.

What stands out MORE to me is some of the colors in the costumes; these are far more apparent. Some changes have been made.

There are other color changes, as well. No question A LOT.

However, nothing stands out as an "error" or issue to me...and again...they look NOTHING like the screenshots I see on two different, newer Dell LCD PC monitors I have access to (which again, are not calibrated).

Sure it makes sense. I own the set and I've already watched it in it's entirety, including FOTR an extra time to make sure I was seeing such a stark difference after ROTK.

It doesn't look ghastly incredible Hulk green throughout the run time. In fact I can't even detect green with my naked eye in the Mines of Moria.

That still doesn't mean it won't bother some more than others.

For me, simply knowing it's there is at least half the problem, and I suspect it's the same for many.

I can't even count how many times I've said it in this thread, but I do like the transfer, overall. I give FOTR PQ an 8/10 and would give it a 9/10 or even a bit higher sans the tint.

Gray area! Not a hater, not a lover. Someone who thinks FOTR could, and should, look a little better than it does. I think it deserves the royal treatment. That's all.

[Petyr_Baelish]

Is there a way to fix the picture by changing the color values on tv: completely ignoring the directors intent for this remaster?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Sure it makes sense. I own the set and I've already watched it in it's entirety, including FOTR an extra time to make sure I was seeing such a stark difference after ROTK.

It doesn't look ghastly incredible Hulk green throughout the run time. In fact I can't even detect green with my naked eye in the Mines of Moria.

That still doesn't mean it won't bother some more than others.

For me, simply knowing it's there is at least half the problem, and I suspect it's the same for many.

I can't even count how many times I've said it in this thread, but I do like the transfer, overall. I give FOTR PQ an 8/10 and would give it a 9/10 or even a bit higher sans the tint.

Gray area! Not a hater, not a lover. Someone who thinks FOTR could, and should, look a little better than it does. I think it deserves the royal treatment. That's all.

It has been given the royal treatment; high bit rate, spread over two discs, new scan, no DNR or EE (that's noticeable anyway). Color changes were made that some will like and others will dislike. However, watching this movie - I see nothing that stands out as a glitch or issue. It's evident they were deliberated BASED on how they were applied to specific scenes.

What I don't rule out is that all of the whites in the entire movie (including title) were given a blanket tone down as I believe they were blown out in the theatrical. I can buy this was done, but see no issue with it.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I have A/B'd both the theatrical and extended Blus. There are vast color differences and changes. No question. However, I see nothing objectionable and nothing like the screenshots at all. There is no "blanket tint" applied to the entire film. Yes, whites have been toned down throughout the entire movie, but they were way overblown and too bright on the theatrical version.

The green tint is there, even when it's not perceptible. It's been proven so many times with screencaps, which as I said are representative of exactly the data on the disc, not occluded in any way by our subjective perception of things. I know you can't see it in the Mines of Moria, because there is almost no white in that whole scene to compare it with.

As for the whites being better because they're overblown and too bright on the original, well, that's how they are on the TTT and ROTK EE's, so I guess you might have a problem with them and consider them a problem. Either way, there is no continuity for something filmed, written (even as a book! Tolkien himself says that it is not a trilogy, it is not three books, it is one book broken down into three parts) and released as one continuous story.

Anyway, I was once in the same boat as you, exactly the same boat. I said the same thing "there is no blanket tint, it's just applied in certain scenes, it often looks better, the snow isn't GREEN green, it's just a sort of green "tone" the way the beginning of Gladiator has a blueish hue"... then I popped in TTT. I watched for about 20 minutes until I got this nagging feeling in my stomach that perhaps FOTR wasn't as peachy keen as I'd thought.

I suggest tossing in TTT before you fully make up your mind. That's what did it for me.

Nobody is trying to stop you from enjoying the set, everyone just wishes they could enjoy it as much as the people truly emphatically loving it.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by retablo

The French Connection changes present en entirely different problem though. Colors came out smeary, especially with the reds bleeding into other colors. So in addition to changing the look, the actual QUALITY has been diminished. That's not the case in FOTR.

So, yes, I'm for director's intent as long as its still done with quality.

Its definitely directors intent. Warner would not lie about that. If they did PJ would have been out and corrected them along time ago

[Troy73]

For all my b!tching I'll say this, this thread is diverse. One day we're talking about the films, next day the books, next day film restorations and HDTV calibration. Wow, a real one stop thread.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

It has been given the royal treatment; high bit rate, spread over two discs, new scan, no DNR or EE (that's noticeable anyway). Color changes were made that some will like and others will dislike. However, watching this movie - I see nothing that stands out as a glitch or issue. It's evident they were deliberated BASED on how they were applied to specific scenes.

What I don't rule out is that all of the whites in the entire movie (including title) were given a blanket tone down as I believe they were blown out in the theatrical. I can buy this was done, but see no issue with it.

I disagree. The Royal Treatment would be what Criterion did with The Thin Red Line. It's simply impossible to disagree with and nearly impossible to find even the most minute fault with.

I would have liked to see that love and attention to detail go into the FOTR. It's evident that it didn't, hence this 600 page clusterfart of a debate. These people are all fans of the movie and wanted the Thin Red Line treatment badly. It's not a conspiracy of people that don't like the movie or hate Peter Jackson or something.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

Is there a way to fix the picture by changing the color values on tv: completely ignoring the directors intent for this remaster?

DarkDune covered it a few pages back. I think he said you have to go 4 or 6 clicks in to the green tint side on the red50 green50.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by mredman

Its definitely directors intent. Warner would not lie about that. If they did PJ would have been out and corrected them along time ago

Well, I'll continue to wait for Peter Jackson himself to speak out on it, but thanks for reiterating.

[Petyr_Baelish]

Can anyone watch this movie w/ the scenes of Liv Tyler and not think of aerosmith?

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

What I don't rule out is that all of the whites in the entire movie (including title) were given a blanket tone down as I believe they were blown out in the theatrical. I can buy this was done, but see no issue with it.

Doesn't make sense, otherwise every single white would not be green (and that's how it is now.) In the original the whites varied, and they when they were supposed to be white they were often so close to neutral they actually appeared to be white or off-white (even in screens) despite at times having slight biases towards red, blue, green, etc. That's not how you "tone down" whites. Why in the world would they go back and give all white a blanket green tint? That makes absolutely no sense.

It's not just white, the green clearly interacts with every color.

And the blacks are certainly crushed, there are serious contrast issues.

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

Can anyone watch this movie w/ the scenes of Liv Tyler and not think of aerosmith?

I can't watch anything and not think of Aerosmith. It's my curse.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by boone_carlyle

can anyone watch this movie w/ the scenes of liv tyler and not think of aerosmith?

lol!

[42041]

I don't think it was given a "new scan", you're now seeing the quality of the original scans. Both Two Towers and Fellowship were scanned in mostly 2k and rarely 4k resolution on the same two Imagica scanners Weta had at the time, according to various articles; can't find anything about ROTK.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

Can anyone watch this movie w/ the scenes of Liv Tyler and not think of aerosmith?

I can honestly say that when I watch scenes with hot-ass Liv Tyler, a lot of things are on my mind, but none of them are Aerosmith.

Occasionally I think of "Armageddon", but then I bash myself in the head until I can suppress it again.