The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by mredman

well warner has confirmed it for him and he himself confirmed it at the theaters i really don't think there is nothing more to say on the matter.

mredman,

I've noticed that you keep on saying that PJ confirmed this was intentional in his introduction to the EE versions in the theater. Do you mean to say that PJ said in his introduction to FOTR something like this?:

"Hi everyone. I just want you to know that I've added a green tint to the whole movie and boosted the contrast, making the film appear a lot darker than you remember it."

[mredman]

Originally Posted by HeKS

mredman,

I've noticed that you keep on saying that PJ confirmed this was intentional in his introduction to the EE versions in the theater. Do you mean to say that PJ said in his introduction to FOTR something like this?:

"Hi everyone. I just want you to know that I've added a green tint to the whole movie and boosted the contrast, making the film appear a lot darker than you remember it."

Yeah he said it something like that
He confirmed the new remaster at the theaters yes.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by HeKS

mredman,

I've noticed that you keep on saying that PJ confirmed this was intentional in his introduction to the EE versions in the theater. Do you mean to say that PJ said in his introduction to FOTR something like this?:

"Hi everyone. I just want you to know that I've added a green tint to the whole movie and boosted the contrast, making the film appear a lot darker than you remember it."

Originally Posted by mredman

Yeah he said it something like that
He confirmed the new remaster at the theaters yes.

Well, did he say it like I said, or did he say there was a new master? They aren't the same thing. There is no dispute that there is a new master for FOTR and that it was intentionally regraded.

The question is whether or not the contrast boost and the green tint added after the fact to every frame of the film were intentional. Peter Jackson saying that FOTR was remastered and regraded is not at all the same as him confirming that the green tint and contrast boost were intentional.

[gettodamoofies]

Originally Posted by mredman

well warner has confirmed it for him and he himself confirmed it at the theaters i really don't think there is nothing more to say on the matter.

Warner Bros released a statement from Warner Bros, not from Peter Jackson. Any statement released by Peter Jackson would have his name attributed to it just like his statement regarding the situation with the Unions when The Hobbit was in pre-production.

As for his theatre intro: Hmm... doesn't sound like he says anything other than the fact that it's "remastered":

YouTube - ‪Peter Jackson's Pre-Movie Video from Wellington, NZ‬‏

Him saying "remastering" is hardly an endorsement that what is on the Blu-ray is approved by him. I'm not one personally out gunning for blood over the changes but claiming Peter Jackson has confirmed that the Blu-ray released is as he envisioned and error-free is misleading at best and outright wrong at worst.

Remastering is such a subjective term nowadays. You can get stunningly remastered films which have been handled with care or you can get "remastered" films like Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country where the "remastering" amounts to a severe application of DNR.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Well, did he say it like I said, or did he say there was a new master? They aren't the same thing. There is no dispute that there is a new master for FOTR and that it was intentionally regraded.

The question is whether or not the contrast boost and the green tint added after the fact to every frame of the film were intentional. Peter Jackson saying that FOTR was remastered and regraded is not at all the same as him confirming that the green tint and contrast boost were intentional.

well the tint was at the theaters as well so it is the same thing

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120737/.../184169494?p=1

The amount of fine detail visible was indeed very clear. I saw the film 7 times in the theater, and I don't remember some of that detail being so sharp. Of course, that was also 10 years ago... But certainly seeing it huge on a big screen helped, and I think the remaster has enhanced that too.

Apparently some of the color timing has been changed by PJ. This sometimes bugged me because it looked to me like some scenes were just too dark. And I wasn't sure if it was the theater to blame or PJ. Like the snows on Caradhras looked too blue to me at times. But then the bright light elements were so bright, I thought maybe it's not the projection. When Arwen comes glowing on the screen, she's GLOWING.

And yeah, maybe the CG does look better. I remember the one shot I always hated was the digital doubles going down the stairs in Moria. It always looked fake to me. It didn't look nearly so bad this time (though it also seemed darker, and maybe this covered a multitude of sins).

But pleased all in all, and looking forward to the next two!

[LordCrumb]

Originally Posted by atexp80

Warner Bros released a statement from Warner Bros, not from Peter Jackson. Any statement released by Peter Jackson would have his name attributed to it just like his statement regarding the situation with the Unions when The Hobbit was in pre-production.

As for his theatre intro: Hmm... doesn't sound like he says anything other than the fact that it's "remastered":

YouTube - ‪Peter Jackson's Pre-Movie Video from Wellington, NZ‬‏

Him saying "remastering" is hardly an endorsement that what is on the Blu-ray is approved by him. I'm not one personally out gunning for blood over the changes but claiming Peter Jackson has confirmed that the Blu-ray released is as he envisioned and error-free is misleading at best and outright wrong at worst.

Remastering is such a subjective term nowadays. You can get stunningly remastered films which have been handled with care or you can get "remastered" films like Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country where the "remastering" amounts to a severe application of DNR.

+1 to all of this.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by mredman

Yeah he said it something like that
He confirmed the new remaster at the theaters yes.

Peter Jackson has not confirmed or even remotely addressed the tint. His message in theaters addressed the new color grade, the new remaster and other aspects of the presentation.

No one is debating his confirmation of those two things. The tint is (potentially and, at this point in the controversy, unavoidably) a third matter. Intentional or error, he has not mentioned it, confirmed its presence, addressed it, explained it, posted a sentence about it, used the word "tint" in any of the secondhand accounts from Bill Hunt or Harry Knowles, etc.

Yes, the tint may be a part of the new color grade. But, as Hollywood Insider Penton-Man put it:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

You know, I haven’t spoken much to that ‘green’ subject directly, out of respect to P.J. because he has a good heart and is a Director to be respected. I feel he has always had his fans in best interest and in the end, for people who have already made more money than they could probably spend in their lifetime, it all comes down to your legacy, and for a filmmaker, that means how you will be remembered by your fans long after you stop making motion pictures.

This whole online green tint controversy with FOTR has left a rather bad taste in my mouth. I just wonder if PJ is being handcuffed by *the machine* in not personally offering a response, or at least, having an associate who was directly involved in the color grading, respond to this online controversy.

For some perspective as to why I feel this way, a little history lesson is in order, the significance of which should not be discounted. Back when the second film in the trilogy was being shown in cinemas, one guy and I emphasize the word ONE

had a reservation with some other digital intermediate color grading choices made for that particular motion picture. Now, granted this individual was somewhat adept at recognizing picture quality nuances given his affiliated work/profession but, he was by no means a digital colorist, cinematographer, etc. nor a member of any Guild associated with filmmaking. He was posting on a rather obscure message board on the internet and his query was presented more as a concerned cinephile and hobbyist….like most folks here. Hell, nobody on that message board even knew him from Adam…so to speak. I know him now, and I consider him a fine fellow.

Anyway, this one hobbyist’s query prompted a filmmaker directly involved in the post production process of TTT and who identified himself as speaking about the topic after consulting with both PJ and Andrew L., to extensively address the concerns of this hobbyist with an online response.

So now, here we are, nearly a decade later, and we have hundreds (if not thousands?) wondering what the heck is up with the green tint ………..and not a word from PJ….much less from one of his colleagues who was physically present in the DI suite and whom really are the only ones that folks can trust as to addressing the nuances of the process….rather than vague third-party statements.

I can sympathize with peoples’ frustrations on this matter. It really does make one wonder.

Even if he considered the tint addressed in his theatrical message, he would still -- presumably -- make an additional clarification to help ease confusion, disappointment and debate. His continued silence continues to chomp at the back of my brain. He's a very, very busy guy. But you at least have to admit it's a strange decision to remain so silent on one small matter for so long. He hasn't even authorized one of his team members to address it. The silence is deafening

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by mredman

well the tint was at the theaters as well so it is the same thing

No, it's not the same thing. It really isn't. I don't think we even know exactly when his introduction was recorded, but it wasn't like PJ had just watched an earlier screening in the day and then recorded the message for the audience who would be coming in that night. Anything could have happened between the time when the new color grading was finished, when he recorded his introduction, and when it was shown in theaters. PJ's vague reference to the film being remastered doesn't necessarily even address the new color timing, much less the green tint and contrast boost specifically.

Originally Posted by atexp80

As for his theatre intro: Hmm... doesn't sound like he says anything other than the fact that it's "remastered":

YouTube - ‪Peter Jackson's Pre-Movie Video from Wellington, NZ‬‏

Him saying "remastering" is hardly an endorsement that what is on the Blu-ray is approved by him. I'm not one personally out gunning for blood over the changes but claiming Peter Jackson has confirmed that the Blu-ray released is as he envisioned and error-free is misleading at best and outright wrong at worst.

Remastering is such a subjective term nowadays. You can get stunningly remastered films which have been handled with care or you can get "remastered" films like Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country where the "remastering" amounts to a severe application of DNR.

Man, it would be awesome if there was some video like that showing a portion of the actual film to see whether or not the green tint and contrast boost really were present.

HeKS

[Monkey]

He confirmed it on friendster as well as craigslist. Let us now move on.

[Aruman]

What is the comparison between the hi-def trailers and the blu-ray pressings? That should indicate if the green tint issue was mess-up in the blu-ray disc mastering. (Someone with access to both care to post them?)

[KrugerIndustrial]

It's gone up to $89.99 .

[NYorker]

Originally Posted by retablo

It's an official statement from a studio that DID offer replacements for Matrix Revolutions. I guarantee that if it DID read like what you wrote, half the people on here would STILL claim it's not real and they they didn't REALLY consult the film's producers, because they just can't accept that the film was changed. Even if PJ came flat out and said it, people still wouldn't believe it. So, really, who cares what the wording is when it'll be bashed into the ground no matter what?

It certainly does, because there is not one word in that statement that makes me believe (and I'm sure I'm not the only one), that they have really looked into the matter. As one who is about to spend around $60-70 on the set, which includes DVDs which I already have, who waited a long time for this release, I think I deserve a proper explanation. Bashing would probably continue, as you suggest, but that is because people will believe the release came out faulty, even in a minuscule way, and even if not everyone would notice it.

I won't get into the intentional vs. error argument again, but let's suppose you bought this release. Somewhere down the line WB releases an "ultimate" edition with The Hobbit + LOTR, and in THAT release, the "intentional tint" has been magically erased. How would that make you feel...?

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Gremal

No one said it's the same thing. Discussing the green/lack of yellow tint is relevant to the subject and trying to browbeat people into submission so they feel like they can't discuss the tint issue is irrelevant and negatively impacting the discussion because it leads to posts like this.

You missed the point of other posters then. Discussing the green tint WAS relevant, but now it's annoying. Really, what's the point of discussing it over and over? I demostrated absurdity by being absurd. The ironic thing was, people who were the most guilty were doing it AGAIN!!! They didn't get it at all. What do you personally get out of saying the same thing over and over? Really?

If anyone was annoyed by my series of posts, then now you know how some of us feel when we come here to see if there is anything new happening and all we see is: green tint, green tint, green tint.

Now if PJ finally said something about it, that would be worth posting. Or if WB did an about face and announced a disc swap. Or if there were other tech problems that showed up. It would be hard to find REAL NEWS here because of the need to wade through all the tiresome bickering about the green tint and the same thing being said over and over.

Of course everyone has the right to post what they want. How about a little restraint? How about a little self-censorship? How about getting a hobby and thinking about other things for a while?

[radagast]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I don't know if you noticed my request a few posts up, and I know that you are tired of the contrast/tint talk, but I would really like to know your opinion on the actual contrast/tint.

No, I didn't notice your request. It's easy to miss amongst the rest of the repetitive stuff.

There were parts of FOTR that looked really good, while other parts were too dark. I noticed the snow, but it might have been because I was looking for it. I'll never know because GREEN TINT GREEN TINT GREEN TINT is forever burned into my brain.

Bottom line: I'm happy with it, but I would be very interested if there ever is a better version. If not, I can definitely live with it.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by radagast

You missed the point of other posters then. Discussing the green tint WAS relevant, but now it's annoying. Really, what's the point of discussing it over and over? I demostrated absurdity by being absurd. The ironic thing was, people who were the most guilty were doing it AGAIN!!! They didn't get it at all. What do you personally get out of saying the same thing over and over? Really?

If anyone was annoyed by my series of posts, then now you know how some of us feel when we come here to see if there is anything new happening and all we see is: green tint, green tint, green tint.

Now if PJ finally said something about it, that would be worth posting. Or if WB did an about face and announced a disc swap. Or if there were other tech problems that showed up. It would be hard to find REAL NEWS here because of the need to wade through all the tiresome bickering about the green tint and the same thing being said over and over.

Of course everyone has the right to post what they want. How about a little restraint? How about a little self-censorship? How about getting a hobby and thinking about other things for a while?

You missed his point. The green tint is relevant to the discussion, annoying to you or not, it has to do with the BD. It's hands down the biggest "issue" with the release. Complaining about the complaining has nothing to do with the BD and is off topic.

Like I said, if you don't like it ignore it. If you want something else talked about you or someone else is going to have to start talking about something else because the people that would rather talk about the problems with this release obviously aren't going to do it for you (otherwise, the thread would either be green tint talk as it is now or dead completely.) You might find it annoying, but you don't control what other people get to post so long as it deals with the topic at hand.

If the complaint is you only come here to see if there's something "new" going on but can't because of the green tint debate, please, if there was a new development it would be being talked about on every new page of the thread and you wouldn't be able to miss it.

The point of discussing it "over and over" is maybe to persuade the studio that it's a big enough issue to fix. If they saw that there wasn't any concern for it, or that the concern had dissipated completely, then why would they bother? Do you think Paramount would've fixed Gladiator had no one complained (for eight friggin' months straight)? Probably not.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

You missed his point. The green tint is relevant to the discussion, annoying to you or not, it has to do with the BD. It's hands down the biggest "issue" with the release. Complaining about the complaining has nothing to do with the BD and is off topic.

Like I said, if you don't like it ignore it. If you want something else talked about you or someone else is going to have to start talking about something else because the people that would rather talk about the problems with this release obviously aren't going to do it for you (otherwise, the thread would either be green tint talk as it is now or dead completely.) You might find it annoying, but you don't control what other people get to post so long as it deals with the topic at hand. If the complaint is you only come here to see if there's something "new" going on but can't because of the green tint debate, please, if there was a new development it would be being talked about on every new page of the thread and you couldn't miss it.

The point of discussing it "over and over" is maybe to persuade the studio that it's a big enough issue to fix. If they saw that there wasn't any concern for it at all then why would they care? Do you think Paramount would've fixed Gladiator had no one complained (for eight friggin' months straight)? Probably not.

Go for it. I guess that is your hobby and/or mission in life.

Who said I am trying to control anything? You are missing the point. And you are making stuff up.

Do you really think any new developments would be talked about? You would say that anything else is minor compared to the green tint issue. And any attempt to talk about anything else would get drowned out.

You did the same thing about the DNR issues with the TE release. Did that get fixed like Gladiator? If they didn't fix the TE, do you think they'll fix the EE?

By all means keep it up. Perhaps we need a separate thread for "other than green tint" discussions.

[Agent Bond]

I do hope Warner will offer an exchange program for those not happy with the added green. The paying customers should have the option!

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by radagast

Do you really think any new developments would be talked about? You would say that anything else is minor compared to the green tint issue. And any attempt to talk about anything else would get drowned out.

You did the same thing about the DNR issues with the TE release. Did that get fixed like Gladiator? If they didn't fix the TE, do you think they'll fix the EE?

By all means keep it up. Perhaps we need a separate thread for "other than green tint" discussions.

Yes, new developments absolutely would be talked about. Any interesting ones would probably on the main page of this site, too (as they usually are.)

They did fix the DNR in the TE. It's called the EE. People complained enough about FotR specifically and they went back and remastered it alone for this release and didn't apply insane amounts of DNR as they did in the TE. Maybe if we complain enough we'll eventually get the super duper EE Ultimate edition without the obnoxious tint of the new EE and without the DNR of the TE.

You still don't seem to be getting the point. It's not anyone else's fault but your own that you're not talking about anything else but the tint issue. If you want to talk about something else you're going to have to do it, no one else is going to talk about what you want for you. They're going to talk about what they want to talk about, a shocking concept. This is the thread for "other than green tint" discussion; the discussion doesn't exist because apparently no one wants to participate in it (otherwise, it would.) How is that the fault of the people talking about this release's problems? Feel free to talk about whatever the Hell you want to talk about if you're tired of reading what's being debated now by other people, no one is stopping you.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by Aruman

What is the comparison between the hi-def trailers and the blu-ray pressings? That should indicate if the green tint issue was mess-up in the blu-ray disc mastering. (Someone with access to both care to post them?)

The HD trailer for the new EE release contain the green tint as well.

YouTube - ‪The Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy Trailer [HD]‬‏

Another indication in my book that this is intentional. That makes 3 now. Warners statement,PJ at the theater and now this HD trailer.

[Velmeran]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

The point of discussing it "over and over" is maybe to persuade the studio that it's a big enough issue to fix. If they saw that there wasn't any concern for it, or that the concern had dissipated completely, then why would they bother? Do you think Paramount would've fixed Gladiator had no one complained (for eight friggin' months straight)? Probably not.

And just how many reps from WB or WingNut frequent this board and in particular this thread?

If you want to try and persuade WB to correct what may or may not be an issue; then you would think people would direct their attention and efforts to a space in which it may actually reach the eyes of those who could make a change.

Frogmort posted several links (PJ's facebook page, WB's review page) and others have posted a few email addresses for various WB persons or departments.

There isn't a discussion when the same 5-10 people post the same. exact. thing. over and over with tiny changes to the wording or structure.

The general comment yesterday was this thread was quiet because nobody was posting -- nobody was posting because a lot of posters have gotten so fed up with the same green tint arguments (nothing new has been added to the 'green tint discussion' over the past 2 weeks) that they don't even visit the thread anymore. As I mentioned, I've had a few people send me PM's basically asking me if I'd let them know if anything new gets posted in this thread as typically any non-green tint discussion is buried and lost because once the tint discussion picks back up we have 2-3 pages of the same old, same old.