The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Beast

Because it's not an error or mistake.

In some form or another it obviously actually is.

It's just will anybody ever admit it?

Originally Posted by frogmort

I personally think there are two different things going on in FotR.

1) Deliberate scene specific color grading changes.

2) Non-deliberate overall green tint and black crush contrast problems.

I feel that they were trying to improve the color somewhat, but screwed it up somewhere down the line as the black crush shows.

.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I personally think there are two different things going on in FotR.

1) Deliberate scene specific color grading changes.

2) Non-deliberate overall green tint and black crush contrast problems.

Not sure how the overall green tint could be "non-deliberate". It had to be very deliberately done — to address grading issues, not because it was intended the film should look that way — and in some scenes the teal is heavier according to need. The black crush is an unfortunate consequence.

I've had hopes that at some point a re-engineering of FotR would happen. After all, someone as obsessive/perfectionist as Peter Jackson would have to have kept pre-grading reference copies of all the source materials — it would only take the time, funding and willingness to do it. But now that WB has sold squillions of copies, and instead of demanding it be fixed the "fans" have been putting their energy into squabbling amongst themselves, I wonder if the incentive to fix it hasn't dissipated. Why would WB spend the money on remastering when we've all just gobbled down what it dished out in the first place?

I only hope some of the buckets of dollars we've all spent on these have helped MGM back onto its feet.

[42041]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Not sure how the overall green tint could be "non-deliberate". It had to be very deliberately done — to address grading issues, not because it was intended the film should look that way — and in some scenes the teal is heavier according to need. The black crush is an unfortunate consequence

Like frogmort said: there are two issues at play. There's a constant shift, where anything bright white is the same slightly dark greenish hue and never exceeds a certain RGB value. I don't believe that is "deliberately done" because it's a constant offset throughout the entire film. You can dial that out by mapping the disc's white point to that of your monitor. But it'll still look completely different because it has completely new color grading aside from the overall tint. That part is deliberate and is an artistic choice, whatever you think of it.
As to what would cause the constant off-white shift, I doubt anyone here has the technical insight to answer that... improper color space conversion? A screwy film print emulation LUT? who knows... either way, it's a minor issue for me, since it does not affect my viewing in a home theater environment.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by 42041

Like frogmort said: there are two issues at play.

Well, that's one explanation that's been put forward, but I don't agree, or see much factual evidence for it.

But it'll still look completely different because it has completely new color grading aside from the overall tint. That part is deliberate and is an artistic choice, whatever you think of it.

What do you base that on, though? There've been no statements to that effect.

[42041]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

What do you base that on, though? There've been no statements to that effect.

My eyes? The color grading is completely different. Transfers have different colors all the time. But they never have that oddball white point offset through the entire movie, though I've heard the 3D version of Transformers 3 has something similar.
It's also a possibility that there wasn't much intentional manipulation going on with the new colors, and the new DI hews closer to the look of the original 35mm prints, which the earlier video master failed to convey. But I certainly have no memory of how those looked.

[Alixi]

Do we reckon Amazon will price match Best Buy's price on Monday? (I hope so).

[thirteen]

Originally Posted by poke smot

target is selling ee on blu no extras for $10 each. $30 total. I got all.

Where did you see that? Target has no extended editions on their site, they have the theatrical editions for $10 each right now. Where did you find that?

[thirteen]

Originally Posted by Alixi

Do we reckon Amazon will price match Best Buy's price on Monday? (I hope so).

What price?

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by thirteen

Where did you see that? Target has no extended editions on their site, they have the theatrical editions for $10 each right now. Where did you find that?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=209054

[42041]

To illustrate what I'm talking about with the constant green tint separate from the new color grade, I'm gonna repost the comparisons I made when this controversy first started, where I remapped the transfer's white point to the normal white point of your monitor (imageshack has kindly downrezzed the images the meantime, but you get the idea)...

Original: http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5...iginallotr.jpg
White point adjusted: http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7932/balanced1.png

Original: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7521/originallotr2.jpg
White point adjusted: http://imageshack.us/a/img713/5140/balanced2.png

The adjusted images are pretty much what I actually see when I watch the disc in my HT. There's no constant green tint, but the overall color scheme is quite different from the TE.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by 42041

My eyes? The color grading is completely different.

No, I think it was pretty clear I was talking about the claim that it is a deliberate and artistic choice. The only official comment that has been made is that it was an attempt to address grading mistakes that were made in the original cinema release. Nothing official's been said to indicate Jackson wanted it to look this way, green tint and black crush and all, as an artistic choice.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I personally think there are two different things going on in FotR.

1) Deliberate scene specific color grading changes.

2) Non-deliberate overall green tint and black crush contrast problems.

[42041]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

No, I think it was pretty clear I was talking about the claim that it is a deliberate and artistic choice.

How else does digital color grading happen
If you believe Bill Hunt's source, both PJ and the DP were involved in and approved the remastered film.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Absolutely. It happens.... And, according to Sony, the DP was involved in and approved the recent Blu Ray release of the Savini NotLD remake. Studio PR people would never release vague statements with ambiguous descriptors to purposely mislead the public.

Although that particular DP himself has since said he was only briefly consulted over the phone and had no actual hands-on involvement. Food for thought given the fact that neither PJ nor Lesnie have ever commented on it personally.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by 42041

How else does digital color grading happen

You're being a bit disingenuous, 42041. It wasn't an attempt to regrade the colour of the picture as an artistic choice — it was an attempt to fix mistakes. Even what little official statement there has been has specified that.

If you believe Bill Hunt's source, both PJ and the DP were involved in and approved the remastered film.

Never said they weren't. That does not mean, however, that given free options, this is how they would have chosen for the film to look, as has been alleged. It just means this is what they were willing to sign off on, under the circumstances, given the time and financial budget.

We don't know what their ideal for this film was; it may be what we got (though I find that hard to believe), or it may have been something else entirely.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by 42041

To illustrate what I'm talking about with the constant green tint separate from the new color grade, I'm gonna repost the comparisons I made when this controversy first started, where I remapped the transfer's white point to the normal white point of your monitor (imageshack has kindly downrezzed the images the meantime, but you get the idea)...

Original: http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5...iginallotr.jpg
White point adjusted: http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7932/balanced1.png

Original: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7521/originallotr2.jpg
White point adjusted: http://imageshack.us/a/img713/5140/balanced2.png

The adjusted images are pretty much what I actually see when I watch the disc in my HT. There's no constant green tint, but the overall color scheme is quite different from the TE.

Thanks for that post. The green tint and darkened scenes have bothered me to the point that I cannot watch the Fellowship EE. I would love to have an unmuddled version with the remapped color.

[beware]

did they ever fix the tint issue in this set or was it just on the first run of the set? I got it but have yet to pop them in.

[beware]

kinda upset I couldn't wait and pulled the trigger on it for 39.99 from bby.com a few weeks back. not because of the price but bc of the bag they mailed it in for a bit of crease damage and a slightly loose disc in the set. Nothing to worry about but still...ocd finding its way back...if got on amazon, it might have come in near perfect condition like my Indy set came like.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by beware

did they ever fix the tint issue in this set or was it just on the first run of the set? I got it but have yet to pop them in.

One of my coworkers got the set recently and it is still there. It would be very expensive for WB to fix it (or admit that they screwed up), so I think we're stuck with it. The Two Towers and Return of the King EE's are OK, but I watch the Fellowship theatrical edition.

[beware]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

One of my coworkers got the set recently and it is still there. It would be very expensive for WB to fix it (or admit that they screwed up), so I think we're stuck with it. The Two Towers and Return of the King EE's are OK, but I watch the Fellowship theatrical edition.

now is it to the point where its not hd 1080p quality, is it just a slight green tint or is it just horrible?