The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[ileadfarmer]

Cheers! Went ahead and placed an order for the box set.

[Dreamliner330]

So I'm just getting up to speed on the coloring change to Fellowship. Did this affect the trilogy boxset? Also, did it only affect Fellowship?

I got the 2011 edition trilogy boxset and also got a 2012 edition boxset and some of the discs may have gotten mixed around.

What Fellowship EE versions got the color change, which did not. Are there any markings/catalog numbers on disc to reference?

[42041]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

So I'm just getting up to speed on the coloring change to Fellowship. Did this affect the trilogy boxset? Also, did it only affect Fellowship?

I got the 2011 edition trilogy boxset and also got a 2012 edition boxset and some of the discs may have gotten mixed around.

What Fellowship EE versions got the color change, which did not. Are there any markings/catalog numbers on disc to reference?

There is only one version of the extended Fellowship. It is the new transfer. The theatrical version is the old (and crappy) transfer. The other two films are essentially the same transfer in both the theatrical and extended versions.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by 42041

There is only one version of the extended Fellowship. It has the new transfer. The theatrical version does not. The other two films are essentially the same transfer in both the theatrical and extended versions.

Got it. So all Fellowship EE are green. Ahh well.

I'm in the middle of a Middle Earth marathon. I've watched Hobbit EE and just put in disc 2 of Fellowship.

I'm debating keeping Hobbit or not (the 3D is amazing) but I kept falling asleep. I bought Unexpected & Smaug Theatrical and sold it for EE. Sold those EEs and bought EEs again for Armies Theatrical. Sold them all again and forgot about the Hobbit Trilogy 3D Amazon Pre-order until it shipped .

I'm not really a sword and sandal guy but the pacing on Fellowship has been far better than anything in Hobbit.

I really found the tie-ins to Hobbit in Fellowship charming. I also think the 3D looks phenomenal.

I think I'd really like a 3 or 4-hour Hobbit Trilogy cut in 3D.

I think of selling Hobbit then I remember all those extras and how much care and detail really went into making them. Ugh. I dunno.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

So I'm just getting up to speed on the coloring change to Fellowship. Did this affect the trilogy boxset? Also, did it only affect Fellowship?

Yeah, there's only one transfer of the Fellowship EE, so they all look the same, whether the individual releases or the boxed sets.

In case it helps to clarify:
The story behind it is that the first film, Fellowship, was colour-graded photochemically, and Jackson and Lesnie (the DP) weren't happy with the result, especially when it came to the Blu-ray. (You can see the original colour grading in the regular Blu-ray of the cinema cut of Fellowship.)

But between the cinema release of Fellowship and that of Two Towers, digital technology advanced enough that Jackson and Lesnie were happy for the second film to be graded digitally, which unlike photochemical grading also creates the capability to go back and alter the grading if desired. So the grading problems don't affect the second or third films, in any release (cinema or EE).

For the EE release on Blu-ray of the first film, they went back and attempted to regrade the film, this time digitally. The transfer we got was their attempt to fix the colour problems as they saw them, but some (many?) of us feel the regraded EE also has significant problems, just in a different way from the cinema-cut Blu-ray. WB implied that this was the best that could be done, though never actually stated that. Personally, I suspect the case is what some industry people have speculated about on-line: that this was the best that could be done with the time and finances WB was willing to expend on the problem.

Will WB re-invest in the transfer? Can it even be fixed? Will we get a newly-regraded version down the line? We can hope, but only time will tell.

[Adam_WM]

I doubt it will ever be revisited now that Andrew Lesnie has passed away.

[rexcrk]

Funnily enough I've been watching Fellowship of the Ring again and I was going to comment on the green tint.

While it's certainly not enough to ruin the movie for me and make me want to watch the theatrical cut or the DVD over the Blu... it is painfully obvious in some scenes. For most of the movie it's not too bad, but when they're on the mountain (during the "Boromir, give the Ring to Frodo" scene) and other scenes it's definitely more noticeable.

I just think it's weird that it's a "blanket tint" rather than just touching up different scenes that needed it.

[Tech-UK]

Just because the snow isn't white, doesn't mean that it is wrong.

The green tint is Jackson's vision of FOTR.

I personally really like the grading of the EE, it gives it a unique look.

An issue that will exaggerate the tint is if your display is not calibrated.

The original theatrical poster includes a green tint, perhaps they had no money left to grade the film or ran out of time before they could (as MacEachaidh pointed out in his post above), and only when the EE was released, was Jackson able to grade Fellowship to his satisfaction.

http://www.impawards.com/2001/lord_o..._ver4_xlg.html

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

The green tint is Jackson's vision of FOTR.

Can you point to anywhere he has ever said such a thing?

An issue that will exaggerate the tint is if your display is not calibrated.

That's such a furphy. Yes of course a display will serve your films best if it's calibrated, but if non-calibration were even partly the source of this specific issue, it would make other films look the same way. It doesn't. On any display, Fellowship looks off compared to the other two films in the trilogy.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Yeah, there's only one transfer of the Fellowship EE, so they all look the same, whether the individual releases or the boxed sets.

In case it helps to clarify:
The story behind it is that the first film, Fellowship, was colour-graded photochemically, and Jackson and Lesnie (the DP) weren't happy with the result, especially when it came to the Blu-ray. (You can see the original colour grading in the regular Blu-ray of the cinema cut of Fellowship.)

But between the cinema release of Fellowship and that of Two Towers, digital technology advanced enough that Jackson and Lesnie were happy for the second film to be graded digitally, which unlike photochemical grading also creates the capability to go back and alter the grading if desired. So the grading problems don't affect the second or third films, in any release (cinema or EE).

For the EE release on Blu-ray of the first film, they went back and attempted to regrade the film, this time digitally. The transfer we got was their attempt to fix the colour problems as they saw them, but some (many?) of us feel the regraded EE also has significant problems, just in a different way from the cinema-cut Blu-ray. WB implied that this was the best that could be done, though never actually stated that. Personally, I suspect the case is what some industry people have speculated about on-line: that this was the best that could be done with the time and finances WB was willing to expend on the problem.

Will WB re-invest in the transfer? Can it even be fixed? Will we get a newly-regraded version down the line? We can hope, but only time will tell.

Not quite. The majority of the first film was actually graded digitally, 70-something percent, but they weren't happy with the quality of the DI finish at that time, so that stuff was filmed out and cut into a regular negative with the remaining footage instead of it being a full DI, which they did on the remaining films (though even then it wasn't without its problems, there's some very smeary noise reduction at play in several scenes in Two Towers). During post on ROTK they found the time to digitally grade the remaining footage of FOTR and to complete the DI of that film. The theatrical cut Blu-ray [edit: and also the EE DVD one would assume, given the time frame of when the DI was finished] was derived from a film element, the EE Blu-ray was derived from the completed DI.

http://archiv.arri.de/news/newslette...erl_lesnie.htm

[Tech-UK]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Can you point to anywhere he has ever said such a thing?

The evidence supports it. If Jackson supervised the EE, then how can one say otherwise, along with the theatrical poster having the green tint, and this was used to advertise it's theatrical release even though the grading was different due to what has been said regarding the source of the elements and the restraints.

How it looked theatrically and the Director's intended look are two separate entities here, and this has been played out with other films, so I am careful as to which term I use.

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

That's such a furphy. Yes of course a display will serve your films best if it's calibrated, but if non-calibration were even partly the source of this specific issue, it would make other films look the same way. It doesn't. On any display, Fellowship looks off compared to the other two films in the trilogy.

It doesn't 'look off', it has a different look from the other two, that doesn't mean to say that it is wrong.

[rexcrk]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

Just because the snow isn't white, doesn't mean that it is wrong.

...


Anyway, has anyone noticed if the opening to Two Towers (with the Balrog) matches the color grading to FotR? I've never actually checked lol.

[Adam_WM]

Originally Posted by rexcrk

...





Anyway, has anyone noticed if the opening to Two Towers (with the Balrog) matches the color grading to FotR? I've never actually checked lol.

I'm pretty sure the flashback to Boromir's death in ROTK matches now.

As for the green Fellowship, Fellowship is my favorite movie of all time and I really loved the old color timing. I get it's not Jackson's intention, I just miss it.

[imsounoriginal]

FOTR's 15th anniversary is next year, hoping against hope that we'll get remastered theatrical cuts that preserve the originally intended look of all three movies. If the studio decides to make LOTR an early UHD title, all the better, in which case they'd probably roll out the TCs first anyway. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by rexcrk

...


Anyway, has anyone noticed if the opening to Two Towers (with the Balrog) matches the color grading to FotR? I've never actually checked lol.

I remember seeing some caps somewhere, I don't think it does. As for Boromir's death ^ that's one of the more heavily graded scenes from the original (Jackson mentions in the commentary how he drained the colour from Sean Bean's face and also used some digital trickery to stop him from blinking) so I'm not surprised it looks similar in ROTK.

The EE grading has always been very contentious but I've never minded it at all, the only scene where it looks overtly green to my eyes is the bit when Pip complains about not getting a second breakfast and Aragorn lobs an apple at him. The shots in the mountains that people often mention actually look blue to me, especially the establishing aerial shot, where it's more of a warmer white in the theatrical cut.

And the heck of it is, if you delve straight into LOTR after watching the Hobbit movies then the strong green/blue/gold timing of FOTR follows on perfectly from the similar timing of the Hobbitses. The next two movies adopt more of an earthier colour grade which fits them perfectly given the increasing darkness of the story.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by rexcrk

Anyway, has anyone noticed if the opening to Two Towers (with the Balrog) matches the color grading to FotR? I've never actually checked lol.

No, it's distinctly different. The footage in TTT doesn't have a green cast to it.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

Just because the snow isn't white, doesn't mean that it is wrong.

The green tint is Jackson's vision of FOTR.

I personally really like the grading of the EE, it gives it a unique look.

An issue that will exaggerate the tint is if your display is not calibrated.

The original theatrical poster includes a green tint, perhaps they had no money left to grade the film or ran out of time before they could (as MacEachaidh pointed out in his post above), and only when the EE was released, was Jackson able to grade Fellowship to his satisfaction.

Agreed. Greyscale not at 6500K can play a huge factor here too as well as color gamut to a lesser degree. I've experimented with this actually to see the effect.

[Adam_WM]

I think I only mentioned it in the Hobbit thread, but I am going to be interviewing Michael Pellerin (who directed all the Appendices) on my podcast this Tuesday. Does anyone have any questions that you'd like me to ask him?

[gettodamoofies]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

Just because the snow isn't white, doesn't mean that it is wrong.

The green tint is Jackson's vision of FOTR.

I personally really like the grading of the EE, it gives it a unique look.

An issue that will exaggerate the tint is if your display is not calibrated.

The original theatrical poster includes a green tint, perhaps they had no money left to grade the film or ran out of time before they could (as MacEachaidh pointed out in his post above), and only when the EE was released, was Jackson able to grade Fellowship to his satisfaction.

http://www.impawards.com/2001/lord_o..._ver4_xlg.html

It's funny, because these special features were on the DVD releases way back when and they were entirely devoted to the digital grading of FOTR and the specific choices they made:

LOTR Digital Color Grading Part 1 of 2 - YouTube

LOTR Digital Color Grading Part 2 of 2 - YouTube

What they make very clear is how much time was spent on specific decisions and choices (let's only alter a face, Hobbiton should be warm, let's spotlight certain action to draw attention to it) and how at odds it is with what was put on disc. It may have been a conscious decision, but it still doesn't change the fact that unlike the previous colour grading which was specific and targeted what was done with the new grading included a near blanket application and/or push towards the tint we see on disc. 4:10 onwards in the second video is particularly revealing considering it makes it very clear the DoP was in the room and involved in those decisions when the original grading occurred and so any changes are at odds with what the DoP original wanted which, by the comments Jackson makes directly after, he agreed with.

[Tech-UK]

Thanks for the vids. I will check them out when I get time.