Night of the Living Dead (1990) - Out of Print

[Whirlygig]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

I'll say instead that for the reasons you detailed above, using ANY caps for comparison, even when they are captured faithfully, is utterly pointless if there is such an extreme level of difference between how a graphics card, and Blu-ray software, render an image. I'm sure they can be calibrated to be the same, but I doubt many people here bother.

Yes, it can be tricky to calibrate every pathway from source to screen. I did offer one possibility earlier, that I've not tried myself yet, for those who either can't hook their PC up to their TV or have not calibrated their PC -- people could put the frame grabs on an SD card or thumb drive and view them on their Blu-ray player (if it supports photo slideshows, and shows them full-screen).

[psicon]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

I was using the first method you described. I understand your points, and reassess my comments to acknowledge that there may very well be nothing wrong with goofnuts caps.

I'll say instead that for the reasons you detailed above, using ANY caps for comparison, even when they are captured faithfully, is utterly pointless if there is such an extreme level of difference between how a graphics card, and Blu-ray software, render an image. I'm sure they can be calibrated to be the same, but I doubt many people here bother.

One thing. that may be making it look darker. At least for me, when viewed in anything by full screen on my 1080p display they look much darker than they are. Looking at them full size in, for example, Windows photo viewer and they resemble exactly what I see on the disc.

[#Darren]

I would have thought a lot of people these days can pop their BD in their PC so no probs comparing...

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by #Darren

I would have thought a lot of people these days can pop their BD in their PC so no probs comparing...

This is what I did, using my TV as the display. Quite a large difference brightness wise. It would be interesting to see what happens displaying caps through my Blu-ray player as suggested above, but I don't have the ability.

[psicon]

Here's an example of what I was talking about. Using a highly technical procedure that would take too long to explain (the print screen key ) these were captured from full screen and just opened in windows photo viewer. Only alterations is cropping.

[mayorofsmpleton]

Originally Posted by bboisvert

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^

The rest is just trivia and bickering. The fact is that this transfer is radically different than we have seen in the past -- including the theatrical presentation. (This isn't an ancient film -- I saw it in the theater and have owned it in several home video formats.)

I would argue that this presentation is also "wrong", given the pretty obvious transition dissolve from "day" to "sun about to set" that occurs at roughly the 21-minute mark. Anyone who has seen more than 5 movies knows what that means -- it's shorthand for "all this previous stuff happened during the day... now more time has passed and it's almost night." That makes the dark black/blue crap going on for a lot of stuff from 10-20 minutes in pretty obviously incorrect.



If people love this, great. If they want to rationalize their "rare" 3000 BD, great. But all this talk about screencaps not being accurate or mis-calibrated monitors is just distracting from the obvious -- someone at Sony started messing with the knobs when transfering this to BD.

I don't know why. But they did. And the results are... well, honestly, they're terrible. Regardless of the increased resolution, this film looks like garbage on this BD. (And I'm hardly a TT basher... I own every BD they've ever released and most of their DVDs too.)

Thank you. I watched last night. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was like a completely different movie. I will probably keep my copy because of the rarity, etc... but best believe I'm holding onto my DVD copy as well.

Also noticed the clicking of the camera sound cues were missing. This is overall just a huge F-Up...

[EddieLarkin]

Yes, a huge difference. Though I did make my own comparisons in full screen.

In the end, once everyone has the disc the caps won't matter. It's not like there's anyone else who needs to make a purchasing decision like with other Blu-rays. Some will send it back, some won't. Personally I don't feel the darkening makes a huge detriment to the image. It's a huge change obviously, and I don't like changes, but detail is not getting crushed out or anything like that.

[AndrewFM]

There is clearly a lot more detail there than those screencaps first suggested

[mayorofsmpleton]

Originally Posted by AndrewFM

There is clearly a lot more detail there than those screencaps first suggested

I popped my DVD version on my laptop and synced them up while I watched the BD version.

There is so much lost in the way of detail. The sets, the make-up... obviously if I had never seen the film I might not notice... but it's glaring and problematic for anyone who has seen the film and knows what it's supposed to look like.

I can envision a situation where Savini/Romero signed off on this for a special edition 4-5 years ago that never ended up happening but something tells me this will turn out to be a case of the studio screwing up and deciding to darken/bluify the image to make it more "modern." A practice I see becoming more and more of a problem down the line...

[DMRI2006]

Originally Posted by AndrewFM

Guys why do you think they're called Twilight Time???

The response to this whole affair has been embaressing. I'm guessing no one will be putting out Christine or The Blob after this.

Oh yes, lol, clearly it is all over for them now. Surely they're dead because a group of message board posters, half of whom completely overstated how bad the transfer is, said so!

[sheldo]

Originally Posted by mayorofsmpleton

but something tells me this will turn out to be a case of the studio screwing up and deciding to darken/bluify the image to make it more "modern." A practice I see becoming more and more of a problem down the line...

But Sony are not trying to sell this movie; Twilight Time agreed a contract with Sony to sell 3000 copies of their movie (which Sony didn't care to release), in turn Sony hands over the print and it goes into production. It's not like they need to fiddle with the print to make it appeal more to a bigger audience, because it's a case of tough luck, the audience is 3000!

[charliemaess]

this reminds me of Halloween when the color timing was changed on that.. anyone got official word on this as yet? i checked it at lunch and it didnt seem awful to me but obviously was color timed darker..

[DetroitSquirreL]

My thinking is Twilight Time is in meetings day & night trying to get some PR things in order to not destroy their reputation for future releases

[mayorofsmpleton]

Originally Posted by sheldo

But Sony are not trying to sell this movie; Twilight Time agreed a contract with Sony to sell 3000 copies of their movie (which Sony didn't care to release), in turn Sony hands over the print and it goes into production. It's not like they need to fiddle with the print to make it appeal more to a bigger audience, because it's a case of tough luck, the audience is 3000!

Sony didn't make the deal with TT, THEN create a new transfer for them.

This transfer was sitting on the shelf for a few years before Sony handed this title to TT. That's how the deal works... Sony basically gets to unload HD masters they've worked on but have yet to release. They're not going to create a new one for TT, that costs money. They WILL however give them one they've created but have not used. That master was one they made INTENDING to release themselves but for whatever reason (studio politics, etc) have not.

Also, Sony isn't trying to sell it NOW, but in 3 years the license agreement is up and they can release it themselves. I'm fairly certain someone made the decision to change the look of the film hoping to sell it to "modern" film-goers. It's a short-sighted mindset that happens once in a while.

[balthazar_bee]

Originally Posted by DetroitSquirreL

My thinking is Twilight Time is in meetings day & night trying to get some PR things in order to not destroy their reputation for future releases

More likely they're just waiting for Sony to get back to them.

"Look, uh, I know we left a message yesterday, but some of these...these fans...they're, uh, they sound really pissed. On our end we'd just like some kind of confirmation that these changes were the result of...well...the director or producer or somebody...anyway, give us a ring and let us know."

[mayorofsmpleton]

Originally Posted by DetroitSquirreL

My thinking is Twilight Time is in meetings day & night trying to get some PR things in order to not destroy their reputation for future releases

Won't make much of a difference. Most of the people buying these discs will remain unaware of the alterations (first time viewers who are now into Zombies!) or people who saw the movie years ago and don't remember how it looks... and people who "like it better this way" or "don't really care."

There are a handful of us who think it looks bad by comparison or are bothered but not enough to really hurt sales of a title like Christine or The Blob '88. Those will continue to sell out... though I wouldn't be surprised if the smaller non-genre releases have trouble selling until reviews are up...

[antmumford]

Edit

[mayorofsmpleton]

Originally Posted by balthazar_bee

More likely they're just waiting for Sony to get back to them.

"Look, uh, I know we left a message yesterday, but some of these...these fans...they're, uh, they sound really pissed. On our end we'd just like some kind of confirmation that these changes were the result of...well...the director or producer or somebody...anyway, give us a ring and let us know."

And the person who sent the transfer from Sony probably didn't work there when it was done -- and the person who approved the change probably doesn't work there - or in that department... it's so frustrating how these things go down. Most of the time they are NOT film-fans. They're corporate entities looking to elevate themselves by making business decisions that sometimes end up being very unwise.

My guess is Sony is going to say "I think that's correct. We're confident in the quality of the image." and TT is going to say "That's all we can report. We apologize if you're pissed. Feel free to send back for a refund if you don't want it..."

[#Darren]

Has anybody been following ebay? How is this controversy effecting the prices?

[mayorofsmpleton]

Originally Posted by antmumford

How does that explain that there are 2 different HD versions out there then?

One was created in the 2000-2005 era for HD broadcast. The new "Blue" one was likely created in 2006-2010 for an intended Blu-ray release through Sony (20th Anniversary Edition that got scrapped?)

SONY started realizing how poorly their catalogue titles were moving and decided to hold off on it. They start this deal with Twilight Time and voila!