4K Blu-ray content on the horizon?

[funkydamo]

i think blu ray is safe, at least until something of a higher quality becomes cheaper.
look at dvd, inferior to blu ray, but still selling by the bus load.

piracy has hit dvd sales no doubt, as you can download a dvd quality film pretty quicky, but you can also buy a dvd film for £2-£3 (or if you are happy with a used disc, £1 or less). im sure dvd will carry on until blu ray players and discs are a similar price to dvd players and discs (and of course the majority of homes have hdtvs)

it will be the same for blu ray. these internet tvs will be fine for say, xfactor or the like. but its a disposable media. it has a place for sure and will live alongside hd, there will be those who love it and those who dont.

ultimatley we all want 'better' and 'faster'. but you cant have both. yes mp3s have become very popular, and in terms of storage its great. but it isnt as good as cd sound. the drive for mp3 is portability. you cant go jogging or sit on the bus with 50 cds, but 1 small pendrive sized thing you can.

visual isnt quite the same. a movie lasts longer than most bus rides, and you cant watch one whilst jogging. the digi copies do the trick for movies on the go, on a small screen.
but if you want a big tv (and most of us do, be honest) you need better quality source otherwise its pointless.

there are plenty of people who wont care for better quality, but thet are the same people who buy the cheapest stuff regardless of whether thats tvs, food, car, furniture etc.
if a man has enough money to buy what he wants, he will buy the better stuff. if its the same price, you get the better one.

im sure any tvs without hdmi input will be left on the shelves. no hdmi means no xbox/playstation, no linking you camcorder, as well as no blu rays.
look at todays hd tvs, still have all the old inputs (so you even plug your snes into it) people will always want to be backward compatible.

[Steedeel]

Thanks for your views. I just think for 4k is more important than this streaming crap!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Anthony, it only takes the masses to 'put up with' streaming quality from the likes of Facebook and Google.

not at all, the masses can make something a success but not kill something off. Very few people have Lamborginies and Ferraries and Jaguars....... but those companies still exist because there are enough people that care for them and can afford them to keep them going. Like I pointed out several times LD went head to head with VHS for 20 years and even though (I hope you agree) the masses whgere OK with VHS the small Niche that wanted better and were willing to pay LD prices kept it going. Many talk about how the masses use MP3 and iTunes but CD sales are still king.

If HD enthusiasts are limited to just major releases on a high quality format that would be pretty crappy.

actually the opposite is true, I fully expect physical media to always have netter content. The issue is this, it costs virtually nothing for a store (on-line or B&M) to have a handful of copies of a ultra minor indie film but it costs a streaming DL company a lot. Look at the news recently Netflix said Starz wants too much for their content, not enough people are streaming it to make it worth it so we will not renew the contract.

I am not convinced the studios will offer a high quality streaming option once Bluray dies.

well BD has a long life ahead of it, and to be honest I have no idea what will replace BD. But there is one thing that is certain. All the people buying/renting BD because they want quality wont just disappear or change their mind in caring about quality. So in order to move them from BD there will need to be something of equal or better quality. You are also missing that back in LD days there was a reason that LD got some fancy stuff (like extended editions and special editions that did not get released on VHS and that is because many influential people in the biz care about movies and did not get into the movie industry just for the $$$ (obviously some are just for the $$$ and the $$$ does not hurt), so it is not only for Joe public but also for themselves.

If they are making enough from the masses (clueless people who rent without worrying about quality) they are not going to care about the true home cinema enthusiasts are they?

obviously they will, what kind of dumb question is it. If I said "if someone is making enough from their salary they would not want to get a raise if their boss was giving them one" you would call me nuts and rightfully so. Everyone wants more money. On the other hand, don’t you think it contradicts your statement when most studios did not even look at UMD until a couple of titles sold in relatively decent numbers and then all of them jumped on the UMD bandwagon until a year later when they noticed no one was actually buying them. Or how about the simple fact that there are collector editions, special editions, extended edition and director cuts of movies if all they cared about was the masses? wouldn't a single cheap edition do the trick and be easier on studios? but the studios think why not have a premium edition at a higher cost for the enthusiast and that way we make more money instead of selling him the masses edition.

So, to sum up my concerns and add a few worrying possibilities, here is a list

1. Google tv, Apple tv becomes the norm.
2. People use Facebook and Google tv as their rental means (low quality, not matching dvd)
3. future tv's will not even have HDMI inputs screwing HD lovers even more. rumours (only rumours mind) suggest Apple tv may go this route with integrated all in one.
4. Convenience means watching a sad, sorry picture quality on our tvs.
Home cinema, like true HQ music is virtually killed off.

All possible, but i hope none come true. Opinions please?

I know your concern but it is 100% unfounded and completely delusional. Even if the masses go to crappy streaming it is immaterial since the question is not if they will exist but if people that care will be forced to watch that because they won't have an other option. As TVs without input, that just does not make any sense. I don't know if Apple Tv will make an AppleTV TV without input but only a select few imbeciles would buy it, just like only some people buy TVs with integrated BD or DVD player. Why would anyone that thinks it through want a TV without inputs? what if, down the road, someone wants to switch from Apple TV to Google TV (to use your imaginary future where those are the only two choices) what happens to your Google TV/Aplle TV if the TV brakes what happens to the TV if the Google TV/Aplle TV brakes, what happens if the playback HW i not good for the new version of AppleTV/GoogleTV (i.e. the same way OTA switched from NTSC to ATSC)?

[Steedeel]

Anthony, just look at MP3. It is mainstream and people have to scavenge around to find high quality audio. It is only now that the industry is planning on offering higher bit rate lossless audio online. Ten years after MP3 was released! Sure, there are Cd's but they are rumored to be getting discontinued next year. If the same scenario played out with films (bluray obsolete) there could potentially be the same ten year period that we would have to wait for higher bit rate HD streams.

[Chevypower]

To people who are theorizing that you won't notice the difference of 4K resolution on a TV, I have seen a 50'' 4K TV, and it is MUCH more impressive than 4K in the movie theater. It makes 1080p look like an ordinary DVD. You do not have to be that close to the screen to realize how impressive it is.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Chevypower

To people who are theorizing that you won't notice the difference of 4K resolution on a TV, I have seen a 50'' 4K TV, and it is MUCH more impressive than 4K in the movie theater. It makes 1080p look like an ordinary DVD. You do not have to be that close to the screen to realize how impressive it is.

The same people that say you cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. Idiots!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Chevypower

To people who are theorizing that you won't notice the difference of 4K resolution on a TV, I have seen a 50'' 4K TV, and it is MUCH more impressive than 4K in the movie theater. It makes 1080p look like an ordinary DVD. You do not have to be that close to the screen to realize how impressive it is.

You bolded the pertinent word.
I’m told there is likewise, more than one such eye-witness testimonial somewhere buried in a thread on the Red camera forum.

I’ll see if I can ask a co-member of this and the Red forum for the link as collaboration.

[Flatnate]

I'd like to keep the discussion on this thread geared towards 4k Blu-Ray; but it seems that we keep slowly sliding over to the "end of physical media debate".

I'll say this though, I'm excited as hell to get my mitts on the Pink Floyd Immersion Box sets with high-res audio both on DVD and Blu-Ray. Yeah CD production may wind down some, but the Immersion box set goes to show that even in the age of streaming and digital downloads that a high quality physical format will endure, even if it is more of a niche market. Likewise Blu-Ray will still live a long life.

[Steedeel]

Flatnate, it is very relevant. No bluray, no 4k. simple as that. Streaming will not manage 4k. It cannot handle high bit rates for 720 or 1080p!

[Mark Malmstrøm]

what does all this mean - does it mean that i have to upgrade again just to see a movie in higher resolution ?


does it mean that all my blu-rays will look horible on a tv screen ?

[Steedeel]

Bluray can not look horrible. That is impossible.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Mark Malmstrøm

what does all this mean - does it mean that i have to upgrade again just to see a movie in higher resolution ?


does it mean that all my blu-rays will look horible on a tv screen ?

If 4K comes out on Blu-Ray it will be similar to how the introduction of 3D Blu-Ray is being handled now. You'll need a player and display specifically designed to utilize that kind of Blu-Ray disc. Of course those players and displays will be backwards compatible and able to display normal Blu-Ray and dvds as well.

Will Blu-Ray look horrible on your t.v. screen? It shouldn't unless you think it does now. If you buy a 4k display and watch a 1080p Blu-ray then it should still look phenomenal up-scaled. Remember the majority of movie theaters in the world that use digital projectors are not even running 4K yet on the big screens, and unless your sitting on top of your tv or you have a projector you may not even see the improvement. Remember nothing is set in stone yet, still a lot of speculation, but fun speculation.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Anthony, just look at MP3. It is mainstream and people have to scavenge around to find high quality audio. It is only now that the industry is planning on offering higher bit rate lossless audio online. Ten years after MP3 was released! Sure, there are Cd's but they are rumored to be getting discontinued next year. If the same scenario played out with films (bluray obsolete) there could potentially be the same ten year period that we would have to wait for higher bit rate HD streams.

Your "example" here is full of screwed up math and faulty logic. The iTunes store, which was the first truly successful foray into selling MP3s launched in 2003, eight years ago. In the meantime, CDs of new releases have continued to be produced and sold (and still are) and production and sales of vinyl have actually increased. Even if you assume that the rumored end of CDs happens by the end of 2012, then lossless downloads will have already been available for a year by the time physical media (CDs, at least) are phased out, according to your information. That actually supports the opposite of your point, because it shows the market providing a high-quality alternative with the new transport before the previous transport was phased out.

You're concerned that somehow Blu-ray will be phased out and that low-quality streaming will be the only option for watching newly-released movies at home. There is just NO PRECEDENT for that concern whatsoever. Since the advent of the home video market, there has ALWAYS been a high-quality product line available for audio/video-philes and the reason is simple: there's money to be made in the lower-volume, higher-margin enthusiast market space.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Sure, there are Cd's but they are rumored to be getting discontinued next year.

lol, where did you hear such a stupid thing. CD revenue is still higher then all digital put together. Let's make a deal, if CDs are discontinued next year to MP3/iTune I will stop telling you that your worries are unfounded and if they are not you will stop posting how you are certain low quality DL will be our only choice.

[Steedeel]

http://www.bitterwallet.com/could-th...ext-year/50994

Anthony, many links but this is one i found.

[Steedeel]

Now if that came to be, that would mean no high quality source for music fans? remember, lossless (download) is only being talked about at the moment.

Hopefully in a few years 4k can build enough support to allow it to exist as long as normal bluray. But the signs are not good for hq home cinema.

[Flatnate]

Well Ridley Scott seems to agree with you in the thinking that streaming sucks but he believes physical media will be around for a long time yet. I still don't get this fear of Blu-Ray disappearing any time soon. Anyway read up on the Huffington Post article here if your interested:

Ridley Scott - Director

The Only Way to See a Film

Technology continues to bring us wondrous advances in filmmaking to improve how we view movies.

While it's exciting to consider the possibilities stemming from this era of innovation -- which directors and futurists for decades have envisioned -- that allows us to watch a movie "anywhere, anytime," the more preoccupied we become with the technologies of how movies can reach us, the less we seem to ask the most important question: How do we really want to experience a film?

In my view, the only way to see a film remains the way the filmmaker intended: inside a large movie theater with great sound and pristine picture. Music and dialogue that doesn't fully reproduce the soundtrack of the original loses an essential element for its appreciation. Simply put, the film loses its power.

Short of that, the technically sophisticated Blu-ray disc, of which I've been a supporter since its inception, is the closest we've come to replicating the best theatrical viewing experience I've ever seen. It allows us to present in a person's living room films in their original form with proper colors, aspect ratio, sound quality, and, perhaps most importantly, startling clarity.

Which is why it has never made sense to me that those preoccupied with how movies are delivered have for years written off "physical media" (i.e., movies on discs) as "dead" even though the evidence shows it isn't happening and won't for years to come. Technology will need to make many more huge leaps before one can ever view films with the level of picture and sound quality many film lovers demand without having to slide a disc into a player, especially with the technical requirements of today's 3D movies.

Granted, the older DVD technology is phasing out. But it is yielding to the Blu-ray just as videocassettes once gave way to the technically superior DVD. This is evolution. Far from being dead, physical media has years of life left and must be preserved because there is no better alternative. Pundits aside, Blu-ray for the foreseeable future remains the finest technology to preserve the impact and enjoyment of watching movies at home.

We've come a long way from those flickering, silent screens which were accompanied only by a person playing a piano. What has remained constant is that people then and now have always sought out the magic one feels after watching a truly memorable film. For movie lovers it doesn't matter whether that magic comes at a theater or through a disc, an electronic stream, a satellite or a wireless device as long as it is delivered through the best possible experience.

Ridley Scott is a three-time Oscar nominated filmmaker, producer and director. His next film project, Prometheus, is scheduled to be released next year by 20th Century Fox.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ridley...b_1132350.html

[Steedeel]

yep, already read it. Thanks for the link though. 3D and 4K are already in my plans. The worry is how niche they will be. I have noticed more and more people buying huge tv sets so i hope that is enough reason to stick with higher resolution formats and high quality in the future.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Thanks for the link though. 3D and 4K are already in my plans. The worry is how niche they will be.

That's not the worry you've expressed before. You've consistently said you believe that 1080p Blu-ray is going to disappear and low-bitrate, highly-compressed streaming will be your only option for watching new movies at home. Virtually everyone you've interacted with on this forum has tried to "talk you down" from this unfounded fear.

If you're worried about 3D and 4K remaining very niche for a long time, I think you have a valid concern, because personally I don't see them catching on beyond the enthusiast crowd.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

http://www.bitterwallet.com/could-th...ext-year/50994

Anthony, many links but this is one i found.

I did not say you where a liar, just that it is ridiculous. Go back to 2006 and you will find many insane rumours at how studios where going to abandon BD. You have to use your brain some time. in the US it is ~50/50 with CD a slight edge and world wide it is ~70/30. For the past 5 years if not more I have has to read stuff from morons that think because they stopped buying CDs because they don't care about quality that no one else does.

On the other hand, if you paid attention to the blog you post you would find a link to http://www.side-line.com/news_commen...=46980_0_2_0_C

obviously your blogger read the title "CD-format to be abandoned by major labels by the end of 2012" but did not read the rest of it because

1) the guy never got that from anyone
2) there is

Originally Posted by other site

Bernard Van Isacker said the following when asked if a CD would still exist in 5 years: "Yes, but in a different format. Normal CDs will no longer be available because they don't offer enough value, limited editions on the other hand will remain available and in demand for quite a few more years.

I still stand but what I said before, is it a deal? If in 2013 there are no more CDs being created I will apologise and stop saying your concerns for BD are unfounded, if it is wrong you will stop with this chicken little stuff.

The issue is you are too busy listening to the naysayers and not enough looking at the facts. In today’s age any BS spreads like wild fire and is treated as fact. You need to be more critical in what you believe.