LG's new OLED TVs

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

From what I'm told only 2015 models can be upgraded to HDR and that once the standards are established the firmware will be upgraded to include the HDR decoding. I don't expect any cost for this as it should be a firmware update only.

I don't expect the increased luminance will effect the panel life. In fact, the 55EG9600s we just received have larger power supplies. One possible additional benefit is I don't see the ABL kicking in so the larger power supply may have solved that issue.

It's fun and exciting to see a/v technologies advancing so beautifully with enhancements that make their entertainment experiences more engaging.

Enjoy!

-Robert

Can you or whoever calibrated your 55EG9600 and 65EG9600 confirm that they have 800 nit peak luminance panels? The larger power supplies imply that they do, but confirmation would be nice.

Is there any reference to M+ in the specifications for the 55EG9600 or 65EG9600? It appears that M+ refers to increased power with more efficiency for both the LG LCD and OLED line of displays.

http://lgdnewsroom.com/products-solu...n-display/4590

While there will probably not be a cost for the HDR firmware upgrade for current buyers of the 2015 models, it is likely that some premium will be added to the price for models that are shipped with the HDR encoders later in the year after the UHD Alliance sets standards. That is a good incentive for purchasing now rather than later.

[JimShaw]

My concern regarding the upgrade would be: If the set was purchased, broke in and calibrated, would the upgrade destroy the calibration? My guess is it would.



m

[raygendreau]

Not much to do but wait for standards. Looks like the UHD Alliance Logo has been established. Where to go for UHD Alliance info:

http://www.uhdalliance.org/

http://bellewcreative.com/wordpress/?page_id=207

Nothing but dummy text at the moment where the standards will be listed:

http://bellewcreative.com/wordpress/?page_id=305:

Edit: The last two links have been password protected since I posted here.

[vinnie97]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

It might, as any firmware update might. But it would be worth it to get HDR.

If one forked out $400 for said calibration, I can't imagine getting HDR would make the erasure feel much sweeter. I mean, this is a case of settling for an uncalibrated pic versus getting HDR (something few have seen in action) on content of which there is very little.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Can you or whoever calibrated your 55EG9600 and 65EG9600 confirm that they have 800 nit peak luminance panels? The larger power supplies imply that they do, but confirmation would be nice.

Is there any reference to M+ in the specifications for the 55EG9600 or 65EG9600? It appears that M+ refers to increased power with more efficiency for both the LG LCD and OLED line of displays.

http://lgdnewsroom.com/products-solu...n-display/4590

While there will probably not be a cost for the HDR firmware upgrade for current buyers of the 2015 models, it is likely that some premium will be added to the price for models that are shipped with the HDR encoders later in the year after the UHD Alliance sets standards. That is a good incentive for purchasing now rather than later.

I don't see any reference to "M+" on teh TV or manual, but LG's OLED technology is RGB + W so the description of adding a forth white pixel to the RGB sub-pixel array matches how LGD designed their OLED panels.

-Robert

Originally Posted by JimShaw

My concern regarding the upgrade would be: If the set was purchased, broke in and calibrated, would the upgrade destroy the calibration? My guess is it would.



m

Jim, very few firmware updates effect professional calibrations; so I suspect this upgrade would not likely wipe out the calibration settings, but when viewing HDR content it may not take advantage of the TV's calibrations for peak luminance and MLL.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Regarding calibration of UHD OLED displays, or any LCD UHD display:

What technician is actually qualified to and has the certification (ISF or other) required to perform the calibration? No standards have been established. How do you know they are using the proper test equipment?

It seems to me that if you are going to pay $400 or so to have your OLED calibrated, you should get the Tech to agree to come back when standards have been established and they are personally certified to calibrate your display to the UHD standards for UHD,HDR,WCG,HFR etc. And don't forget EOTF.

Might be better to just put the display in Cinema mode out of the box and enjoy whatever content you have.

"Joe Kane is currently working on the new Ultra-high definition 2160P or (4K) standards plus consultant for Samsung and others."


http://www.buschhometheater.com/home...f-calibration/

[Robert Zohn]

Ray, very good points, but I think it would be difficult to get a professional calibrator to go back for free to recalibrate due to standards changes. Also most of the new upcoming standards will not effect much. Here's what I know.

In regard to EOTF, I assume you are referring to Electro Optical Transfer Function and that should not be an issue as most top pro calibrators are now using BT.1886 gamma. BT.1886 cover EOTF.

I don't expect HFR, High Frame Rate to effect calibration.

WCG, wide color gamut will not be available in TVs until 2016 at the earliest. Some 2015 TV can get close to P3, DCI, Digital Cinema Initiative color space and almost all calibrators have equipment to do P3 and even rec.2020 color space. But with the TVs not being capable of hitting the P3 or rec. 2020 color points it's a non issue.

Finally, HDR is limited to a few of the flagship TVs so it only effects those models.

Joe Kane was one of our Key Note speakers at our 2014 TV Shootout. He was amazing and everyone enjoyed meeting him in person and his exceptional and very educational presentation on much of what you posted for the new 4K UHD standards. Check out his VE TV Shootout presentation here.

Hope this helps.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Ray, very good points, but I think it would be difficult to get a professional calibrator to go back for free to recalibrate due to standards changes. Also most of the new upcoming standards will not effect much. Here's what I know.

In regard to EOTF, I assume you are referring to Electro Optical Transfer Function and that should not be an issue as most top pro calibrators are now using BT.1886 gamma. BT.1886 cover EOTF.

I don't expect HFR, High Frame Rate to effect calibration.

WCG, wide color gamut will not be available in TVs until 2016 at the earliest. Some 2015 TV can get close to P3, DCI, Digital Cinema Initiative color space and almost all calibrators have equipment to do P3 and even rec.2020 color space. But with the TVs not being capable of hitting the P3 or rec. 2020 color points it's a non issue.

Finally, HDR is limited to a few of the flagship TVs so it only effects those models.

Joe Kane was one of our Key Note speakers at our 2014 TV Shootout. He was amazing and everyone enjoyed meeting him in person and his exceptional and very educational presentation on much of what you posted for the new 4K UHD standards. Check out his VE TV Shootout presentation here.

Hope this helps.

-Robert

Not for free, but for a reasonable fee to address retweaking for HDR firmware update on models eligible for the update.

It all helps. But, I would want a tech to verify they have NEW ISF Level II – 4K UHD Fundamentals certification.

https://www.avproalliance.com/blog-article?r=8HRZ4Z1985

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

Robert: While we are waiting for you to hear back from LG on the HDR issue, could you comment on a few technical details for the 55EG9600 (which I'm assuming would be the same for the 65 incher) since you have one on hand?

1) does it have wireless AC support like the 65EC9700 or is the manual correct and it is limited to the inferior wireless N support?

2) is the ethernet port 100 mbps or 1 gbps? If the latter, then wireless AC is less of an issue.

3) are all HDMI ports HDCP 2.2 compliant? (this one is easier to test)

4) is one or more HDMI port full 18Gbps HDMI 2.0?

Thanks again for all you do for the community.

Yes, should be easy to verify if this is correct:

"All of LG’s 2015 4K UHD TVs will have one or two clearly-labeled HDMI 2.0 ports with HDCP 2.2 compliance"

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lguk-...1503044022.htm

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

Right, and it matters *which* ports are HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2, as ARC could become an issue. For example, ARC is "needed" (understanding that you could get the audio other ways, it's just less convenient) to play audio through your receiver from applications streamed directly from the TV. Therefore, the ARC HDMI input will need to be the one connected to your receiver.

However, if the ARC input is not HDCP 2.2 compliant, then later on if a 4k Blu-ray player is connected to your receiver, you'll need to connect the receiver to a different input on the TV that is HDCP 2.2 compliant. However, then ARC won't work unless you run a second output from the receiver to the TV and switch between them (assuming your receiver has two HDMI 2.0 outputs), which would be annoying.

To test this, it should be easy enough to just hook the Sony 4k Media Player up to each of the HDMI inputs and see if it'll play 4K content.

Exactly. Also HDCP 2.2 is necessary for streaming Netflix UHD:

The three features that are vital for viewing forthcoming 4K content from Netflix, Blu-ray, Satellite/Cable and elsewhere are HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and HEVC.

http://hdguru.com/three-must-have-4k-tv-features/

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Exactly. Also HDCP 2.2 is necessary for streaming Netflix UHD:

The three features that are vital for viewing forthcoming 4K content from Netflix, Blu-ray, Satellite/Cable and elsewhere are HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and HEVC.

http://hdguru.com/three-must-have-4k-tv-features/

were any of the TVs from the major brands released without any of those features? Even the Vizio 4K tv that sell for under $800 have them.

[Robert Zohn]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been testing as much as I could to get the definitive 100% verified answers. So far I have confirmed that all 3 HDMI inputs are HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 as I connected our Sony 4K media server, FMP-X10 to each HDMI input and they all work flawlessly.

HDMI 2 has Audio Return Channel and I was also able to confirm that by streaming Netflix 4K and back-feeding audio to our Marantz AV-8802 Processor. However, only HDMI input 2 has ARC.

Not sure how to check for "N" wireless, Ethernet RJ45 port speed or the HDMI bandwidth. Any advice is welcome and encouraged.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been testing as much as I could to get the definitive 100% verified answers. So far I have confirmed that all 3 HDMI inputs are HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 as I connected our Sony 4K media server, FMP-X10 to each HDMI input and they all work flawlessly.

HDMI 2 has Audio Return Channel and I was also able to confirm that by streaming Netflix 4K and back-feeding audio to our Marantz AV-8802 Processor. However, only HDMI input 2 has ARC.

Not sure how to check for "N" wireless, Ethernet RJ45 port speed or the HDMI bandwidth. Any advice is welcome and encouraged.

-Robert

You have two spec sheet links for the 65EG9600 on your web site. See page two of each pdf (terminals) One shows HDMI 3 4K/60P 18 Gbps, the other does not include 18 Gbps. Which is correct?

http://nebula.wsimg.com/1ae1f2bbcb85...&alloworigin=1

http://nebula.wsimg.com/79076bd75211...&alloworigin=1

Do you plan to update the spec sheet with the info in your post? It would put you miles ahead of the LG web site:

http://www.lg.com/us/compare/compare...tegory=/us/tvs

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

As far as I'm aware, no 2014 TV had both HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 full 18 Gbps on the same port. There were many TVs that had HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 10 Gbps on the same port, but that's what we're worried is included here.

How do you tell if an HDMI 2.0 port is 18 Gbps or 10 Gbps?

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been testing as much as I could to get the definitive 100% verified answers. So far I have confirmed that all 3 HDMI inputs are HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 as I connected our Sony 4K media server, FMP-X10 to each HDMI input and they all work flawlessly.

HDMI 2 has Audio Return Channel and I was also able to confirm that by streaming Netflix 4K and back-feeding audio to our Marantz AV-8802 Processor. However, only HDMI input 2 has ARC.

Not sure how to check for "N" wireless, Ethernet RJ45 port speed or the HDMI bandwidth. Any advice is welcome and encouraged.

-Robert

The 4 ports on my UB9500 all support 4K@60hz 8-bit 4:2:0. Port 3 supports 4K@60hz up to 12bit 4:2:2 or 8bit 4:4:4

Port 1 is labeled HDCP 2.2, but the manual doesn't say anything about HDCP.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

Thanks so much! Someone from AVS was able to confirm gigabit LAN, so we have that info as well. As to wireless AC, you'd need an AC router, but it matters much less given the gigabit lan port (because you could use an AC access point), so I doubt it will matter to anyone with that settled.

As to how to check HDMI bandwidth, do you have a computer with a GTX 980? That would be the easiest way.

how do you use a PC with a GTX 980 to test? I'm considering upgrading from my current dual 760s.

[Robert Zohn]

Yes, I need to know this as I have GeForce GTX980 video card in my new desktop PC and would like to check for 18Gbps HDMI pass through and support.

Let me know and I'll get the absolute answer.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

I hope the techs are up to speed on calibrating the 2015 LG OLEDs. While this refers to the European version of the 55EC9300, with all the comments I have seen regarding green tint and problems with 20 pt. white balance, I can't help but wonder.

"•The correct white point settings to properly calibrate LG OLED (the conventional D65 standard may introduce green tinting);
•The prerequisite values that need to be entered to prevent 20-point [White Balance] controls from misfiring; &
•How to achieve 2.4 gamma for the maximum “pop” and depth (the onboard [Gamma] “2.4” setting only measured around 2.2)."

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/calibration

On another forum, someone who has a LG55EG9600 is voicing various complaints after having the display running for about 150 hours. Is there nothing in the manual about the 400 hour break in?

I'm still not convinced techs have gone through the learning curve on how these OLEDs should be calibrated.

[Robert Zohn]

The 400 hour break in came from my tests of 29 65EC9700s and a few 77EG9700s. The 4K OLED panels stabilize and screen uniformity improves after a proper 400 hour break-in.

It's not in the manual.

-Robert

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I hope the techs are up to speed on calibrating the 2015 LG OLEDs. While this refers to the European version of the 55EC9300, with all the comments I have seen regarding green tint and problems with 20 pt. white balance, I can't help but wonder.

"•The correct white point settings to properly calibrate LG OLED (the conventional D65 standard may introduce green tinting);
•The prerequisite values that need to be entered to prevent 20-point [White Balance] controls from misfiring; &
•How to achieve 2.4 gamma for the maximum “pop” and depth (the onboard [Gamma] “2.4” setting only measured around 2.2)."

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/calibration

On another forum, someone who has a LG55EG9600 is voicing various complaints after having the display running for about 150 hours. Is there nothing in the manual about the 400 hour break in?

I'm still not convinced techs have gone through the learning curve on how these OLEDs should be calibrated.

Probably because they have no idea how it should be calibrated

[Robert Zohn]

Calibrators know how to properly set-up all displays as they use SMPTE and ITU standards. The problem with LG's OLED TV is getting the 20 point controls to function properly. I have seen much improvement on the 2015 EG9600 series.

Check out the professional reviews and/or stop by an a/v dealer who demonstrates OLED TVs and you will see what so many are smitten about.

-Robert