4K Movies Releases

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

One less problem to worry about.

Rosanna Rosannadanna, "it's about time"

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Like I said before last Nov. expect an 8 figure cap.

MPEG LA Announces License Terms for High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC/H.265)

Highlights…

HEVC products sold by a legal entity to end users 0 – 100,000 units/year = no royalty (available to one legal entity in an affiliated group)
o US $0.20 per unit after first 100,000 units each year
o Maximum annual royalty payable by an enterprise (company and greater than 50% owned subsidiaries): initially starts at $25M (note that H.264 had a 7 figure cap of $6,500,000)

• Includes right to make, use and sell
• Royalties are payable for HEVC products from May 1, 2013 forward
Other
• No separate royalties for HEVC content
• Vendors of semiconductor chips or other products that contain an HEVC encoder and/or decoder may pay HEVC royalties on behalf of their customer who is a licensee

For full press release see…. http://www.mpegla.com/Lists/MPEG%20L...n-14-01-16.pdf

One less problem to worry about.

I see no mention of license for use on physical disk in that press release. In fact: " High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC, also known as H.265 and MPEG-H Part 2) is a standard designed to improve video coding efficiency for the benefit of Internet and mobile service providers and consumers with increased speed and capacity. HEVC is also expected to deliver next generation higher resolution HDTV video displays for 4K and 8K Ultra High Definition TV (“UHDTV”).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

If 4K disc comes out and have Rec 2020 colour space support how many movies will be able to take advantage of it? Is the colour space of 35mm on par with Rec 2020 ?

Well, film color is not a color space, per se. There are boundaries to what can be captured on film and then reproduced by film print, and these boundaries, when mapped to the CIE 1931 XYZ color space chart, establish what might be better termed a film color gamut.

However, to directly answer your question in a nutshell….Yes….because the color coordinates for BT.2020 map out a WIDE color gamut (WCG).

And next if anyone is subsequently wondering….yes….Dolby Vision supports BT.2020 color and….can even be tweaked to support the XYZ color space if needed.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I don't know why people are surprised at this Penton man. It was inevitable that eventually streaming will cost as much as cable does now. Death to streaming, long live the disc!

Until the legal wrangling has run its course, at the very least, it’s a nice little pat on the back for 4K Blu-ray (packaged media) .

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Rosanna Rosannadanna, "it's about time"

Next up on the platter…the support for High Dynamic Range video compression in an HEVC extension (being worked on now).

Meanwhile for your listening enjoyment….

Toto - Rosanna - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

color

Infographic on current TVs displaying Rec.709…http://blog.dolby.com/2013/12/tvs-mi...s-infographic/

Some color scientists would argue the conclusion at the bottom of that ^ page and put the figure closer to 35.9%, see Table 2 - http://informationdisplay.org/IDArch...asNextGen.aspx

but; nevertheless, point is, you’re still missing out a lot with today’s TVs.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, film color is not a color space, per se. There are boundaries to what can be captured on film and then reproduced by film print, and these boundaries, when mapped to the CIE 1931 XYZ color space chart, establish what might be better termed a film color gamut.

However, to directly answer your question in a nutshell….Yes….because the color coordinates for BT.2020 map out a WIDE color gamut (WCG).

And next if anyone is subsequently wondering….yes….Dolby Vision supports BT.2020 color and….can even be tweaked to support the XYZ color space if needed.

Thanks! Lawrence of Arabia is going to look great in Rec 2020 / 4K

[Penton-Man]

B.T. 2020 gamut deliverables (if they ever were to be forthcoming to consumers) would be nice but, adding some brightness (HDR) to that, or for that matter, to B.T.709 would be even nicer, because adding brightness provides a greater sense of reality with more saturated colors and the perception of increased image resolution (detail)…http://blog.dolby.com/2013/12/tv-missing-colors/ . A Dolby spokesperson will be speaking more about this at an upcoming tech conference for professionals on Feb. 20.

In other words, for next-gen video, best to nudge the brightness of the display up and the current color gamut out…at the same time.

Reminds me someday to make a future post on mesopic and photopic vision but I’ll leave all you lovers with scotopic vision, for….you can’t fight the moonlight …..

Coyote Ugly - Can't Fight The Moonlight - Piper Perabo - YouTube

P.S.
To inquiring minds, yes, I’m lonely, my wife’s out of town and I just got back from a moonlit night solo bike ride.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I think he was referring to the Netflix service and not to a specific hardware device. Netflix has different video streams and can pick the best one to send to the Netflix device. If the device supports 10-bit video with the Rec. 2020 color space than Netflix can send that video stream to the device. On the other hand once the 4K Blu-ray standard is defined that becomes the limiting factor for every 4K Blu-ray disc released.

I know the why, but it is just plain wrong.

Anything he gives for why ____ future feature (like HFR) can be added to a Netflix 4K content more easily than BD 4K content is wrong. And I gave the perfect real life example before, with look at 3D. Was it impossible for BD to add 3D? No there are many 3D BDs out. Did BD get 3D support years before Netflix did? yes. So how can one be certain the same can't happen for HFR or HDR or what ever else might make s3ense to be added later.


I agree with you that people see "Netflix" (or other DL/streaming option) as a service and physical media as a device. But that is just where the mistake happens. they are both limited by devices. You talk about Netflix offering different streams but that is just where the mistake happens. What I mean is (for example) I watched life of Pi yesterday on BD, I watched it in 3D but I could have watched it in 2D (depending on devices) or SD or if I had a 4K projector upscaled to 4k. So physical or virtual, options can exist, the problem is that people don't get that the options, by definition, need to be very finite in choice to be viable as a format, the same way that it does not make sense for a film to be distributed with 20 million choices on it for the 20M different possible set-ups on a disk it does not make sense for Netflix to have 20M different copies for distribution to 20M different Netflix devices. You need standards to simplify stuff be it streaming or physical and so adding new stuff in what ever format is always a hard decision based on cost, benefit and need.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Woah there chief, calm it down. I didn't say that streaming would have no technological hurdles to overcome, just that it may be able to handle them more efficiently than the entrenched limitations of a hardware based system of packaged media....

No need to calm down, but you can read my previous point to why there should not be a difference in my previous post when I replied to Richard Paul. But the simple answer is that the mistake you are making is that packaged media is no more 9or less) HW based than streaming

[raygendreau]

Sony and others are intent on simplifying the process. No player is involved for streaming directly to a display (Smart TV) wirelessly from your router.
The possibilities include Amazon instant video, Hulu plus, Netflix, YouTube, Vudu and many others. So, in fact, less hardware is required for streaming than for physical disk.

With the improvement in the quality of the video stream, physical disk becomes less and less competitive. Physical BD (2K) will never replace DVD. Too few consumers value the difference. Even fewer will value the difference between 2K and 4K. Consumers value convenience more than they do physical ownership.

In a few months, 2nd generation UHD sets will be on the market with Netflix and other streaming apps ready and willing to provide UHD content. Netflix will offer it as part of their $8 per month subscription fee. Don't be surprised if you see the 140 plus Sony UHD selections currently available only through their download service available through the Netflix service. Do you think BDA will have their UHD spec finalized by then? Clock's ticking.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wir...k-tvs-21481371

http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/with...estly-in-2013/

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Sony and others are intent on simplifying the process. No player is involved for streaming directly to a display (Smart TV) wirelessly from your router.
The possibilities include Amazon instant video, Hulu plus, Netflix, YouTube, Vudu and many others. So, in fact, less hardware is required for streaming than for physical disk.

With the improvement in the quality of the video stream, physical disk becomes less and less competitive. Physical BD (2K) will never replace DVD. Too few consumers value the difference. Even fewer will value the difference between 2K and 4K. Consumers value convenience more than they do physical ownership.

In a few months, 2nd generation UHD sets will be on the market with Netflix and other streaming apps ready and willing to provide UHD content. Netflix will offer it as part of their $8 per month subscription fee. Don't be surprised if you see the 140 plus Sony UHD selections currently available only through their download service available through the Netflix service. Do you think BDA will have their UHD spec finalized by then? Clock's ticking.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wir...k-tvs-21481371

http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/with...estly-in-2013/

It could be just me but am I picking up some streaming bias here? (Question not statement)

[Penton-Man]

Addendum editorial comment to this post from the wee morning hours of Jan. 17 (didn't have to go into work the next day) -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Like I said before last Nov. expect an 8 figure cap.

MPEG LA Announces License Terms for High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC/H.265)

Highlights…

HEVC products sold by a legal entity to end users 0 – 100,000 units/year = no royalty (available to one legal entity in an affiliated group)
o US $0.20 per unit after first 100,000 units each year
o Maximum annual royalty payable by an enterprise (company and greater than 50% owned subsidiaries): initially starts at $25M (note that H.264 had a 7 figure cap of $6,500,000)

• Includes right to make, use and sell
• Royalties are payable for HEVC products from May 1, 2013 forward
Other
• No separate royalties for HEVC content
• Vendors of semiconductor chips or other products that contain an HEVC encoder and/or decoder may pay HEVC royalties on behalf of their customer who is a licensee

For full press release see…. http://www.mpegla.com/Lists/MPEG%20L...n-14-01-16.pdf

One less problem to worry about.

One important thing to note is that there are no royalties on HEVC-encoded content, meaning….das very good for content providers.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I don't know why people are surprised at this Penton man...

Steed, I recorded and watched the Sunderland match (congrats on the surprise outcome, given you were 2 down). I have yet to get to the Arsenal vs. Fulham, so don’t say anything about that, nor the Chelsea match which I’m recording today.

Meanwhile, two questions –
#1 Why do they call your place the Stadium of Light????
#2 Before I go ahead and erase the match like happened last time, did the TV cameras catch your mug in the crowd again?

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It could be just me but am I picking up some streaming bias here? (Question not statement)

It is a fair question and the answer is no, I am not biased. I am extrapolating the available information on UHD and coming to, what I believe, is a logical conclusion.

I try to hedge my bets when I purchase new consumer electronics. I purchased a PS3 during the BD/HD battle because I thought if HDDVD wins, I still have a game console. I purchased a 3D TV, because if 3D failed, I would still have an excellent 2D TV. (I know people who own 3D TVs that have never even bothered to purchase the glasses)

I subscribed to the Netflix service for several years, primarily for the mail service, but I saw the streaming quality improve dramatically during that period. I use Redbox for BD rentals now. If I have a bias, it is for rental rather than purchase.

I may opt for a next gen UHD TV in the future, because it will be an excellent HDTV.

I started purchasing BDs in 2006 and have around 250 including 2D and 3D.
If UHD streaming and download exceeds BD quality my purchases of physical disk will drop dramatically, because, at that point UHD streaming and downloads will be "good enough" for me.
Take a few minutes to read some of the comments to the linked article and you will see I am not alone.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/with...estly-in-2013/

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

It is a fair question and the answer is no, I am not biased. I am extrapolating the available information on UHD and coming to, what I believe, is a logical conclusion.

I try to hedge my bets when I purchase new consumer electronics. I purchased a PS3 during the BD/HD battle because I thought if HDDVD wins, I still have a game console. I purchased a 3D TV, because if 3D failed, I would still have an excellent 2D TV. (I know people who own 3D TVs that have never even bothered to purchase the glasses)

I subscribed to the Netflix service for several years, primarily for the mail service, but I saw the streaming quality improve dramatically during that period. I use Redbox for BD rentals now. If I have a bias, it is for rental rather than purchase.

I may opt for a next gen UHD TV in the future, because it will be an excellent HDTV.

I started purchasing BDs in 2006 and have around 250 including 2D and 3D.
If UHD streaming and download exceeds BD quality my purchases of physical disk will drop dramatically, because, at that point UHD streaming and downloads will be "good enough" for me.
Take a few minutes to read some of the comments to the linked article and you will see I am not alone.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/with...estly-in-2013/

Ok cheers. I hope 4k is huge because I really appreciate quality.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Ok cheers. I hope 4k is huge because I really appreciate quality.

In my case, the only 4K UHD I have seen is the Sony Best Buy demo. I was more impressed by the expanded color gamut than I was the 4X increased resolution over 1080P. But, that was enough to get me thinking about purchasing a UHD display.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Steed, I recorded and watched the Sunderland match (congrats on the surprise outcome, given you were 2 down). I have yet to get to the Arsenal vs. Fulham, so don’t say anything about that, nor the Chelsea match which I’m recording today.

Meanwhile, two questions –
#1 Why do they call your place the Stadium of Light????
#2 Before I go ahead and erase the match like happened last time, did the TV cameras catch your mug in the crowd again?

The stadium of light? A tribute to the miners. My city was a huge industrial (then town) with a proud tradition of shipbuilding (a ship was indeed on our club crest many moons ago) and mining. I believe the light reference referred to the emergence from the mines of those hard working men at the end of a long day. The lights stay on like a beacon throughout the night and looks great!


Question 2. Nope, not this time.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

In my case, the only 4K UHD I have seen is the Sony Best Buy demo. I was more impressed by the expanded color gamut than I was the 4X increased resolution over 1080P. But, that was enough to get me thinking about purchasing a UHD display.

Maybe one day HD will be thought of in the same way as SD when codecs and bit rates become more efficient. Unlikely but you never know.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The stadium of light? A tribute to the miners. My city...

That is so cool Steed, I never knew.
On our side of the pond, the 2nd game just ended, looks like Seattle vs. Denver in the Super Bowl.