4K Movies Releases

[Derb]

Originally Posted by jono3000

Can't help as I have a SDR UHD LG, but I'm looking forward to upgrading Jingle All the Way to UHD Blu-ray

Fixed.

[Penton-Man]

^

Little realized fact: During the sessions, colorists commonly grade feature films without having the added benefit of the sound track.

We here on zee forum have the ability to jazz up the experience -

Pharrell Williams - Happy (Despicable Me 2 - Lyric Video) - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Underappreciated benefit of HDR: it allows one to highlight the detail of a 4K shot and finished movie so that one can actually see it (the detail) better. The detail is there with 4K, but thru SDR mastering and projection you can (and often do) lose some of it…..sometimes a lot of it.

One may ask, WHY is that? Well….the human visual system has a contrast sensitivity function, e.g. we need more contrast to see finer detail.

Still skeptical? Well, has anyone ever gone to their local optometrist or ophthalmologist office and had a visual acuity test done by having you read one of those letter charts projected on the wall and subsequently been told you had 20/15 vision and then a week or two later you went to another office for instance to get custom frames (that the first office didn’t have in stock) and forgetting your recent prescription, they (the 2nd office) did a quick visual acuity test and you now measured 20/20 (which is poorer than 20/15)……BUT…then thinking about it, you noticed that the projection wasn’t as bright (contrasty) as in the first office because the equipment in the 2nd office wasn’t being maintained.

It happens.

Proof of concept with movie material , say you? Well, of the vfx shots in Tomorrowland that were 4K all the way through (the elements were produced in 4K, the renders were rendered in 4K and they were output in 4K), if you carefully critique the picture quality, you can actually see greater detail in the Dolby Vision version than the SDR grade.

Take home message? Well…..whether some people like it or not, HDR complements higher spatial resolution (4K).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^

Little realized fact: During the sessions, colorists commonly grade feature films without having the added benefit of the sound track.

We here on zee forum have the ability to jazz up the experience -

Pharrell Williams - Happy (Despicable Me 2 - Lyric Video) - YouTube

I can't say I've thought about it that much, but seeing as they're not editing the picture I don't see why would they even need the audio.

[Spike M.]

Could someone drop some knowledge on my dumb question?

Since LCD sets with dimmers and just plain old OLED sets essentially "shut off" the pixels that hit a certain nit level, is the difference between an HDR and an SDR set their ability to handle a certain codec that HDR files require? I know certain content (like the Se7en BD, for example) have really deep blacks that can just blend into the bezel, whereas something like streaming Netflix from your laptop certainly doesn't. Is the difference not so much a technology adaptation with the screen, but the software's ability to read content that can hit those super low blacks?

Thanks.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I can't say I've thought about it that much, but seeing as they're not editing the picture I don't see why would they even need the audio.

Not needed, but it sure would make it easier/quicker to grade, because in a perfect world (if the sound tract were available), then thee colorist could get a better feeling as to what emotions the filmmaker was trying to portray…..and their exact intensity….timing, etc. Think about it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Could someone drop some knowledge...

Richard, Geoff, Kris, anyone? Help the man ^ out…currently, I’m a little busy ….trying to get out to an early long weekend.

P.S.
To Peter THX, heads-up - the “UK's first-ever Ultra HD (4K) broadcast” ….https://sport.bt.com/sport-football/...11363994807527 Reminder: Since we don’t get the BT Sport pack, set your DVR for Sunday morn to at least record the match in HD off of Fox Sports1.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Could someone drop some knowledge on my dumb question?

Since LCD sets with dimmers and just plain old OLED sets essentially "shut off" the pixels that hit a certain nit level, is the difference between an HDR and an SDR set their ability to handle a certain codec that HDR files require? I know certain content (like the Se7en BD, for example) have really deep blacks that can just blend into the bezel, whereas something like streaming Netflix from your laptop certainly doesn't. Is the difference not so much a technology adaptation with the screen, but the software's ability to read content that can hit those super low blacks?

Thanks.

I'm no HDR expert but that kinda misses the point. I think.

HDR isn't about blacks, it's about expanding the information contained in the signal between the brightest and darkest points, and seeing as the blacks already go down to Spinal Tap levels of blackness on some TVs it's the other end of the scale that needs expanding upwards, namely the brightness or 'nits'.

It's entirely true that a proper HDR TV will need to have the correct processing in order to recognise and reproduce these HDR sgnals accurately, yet it's not so much a codec but a new EOTF in and of itself. It just happens to be coming along at the same time as HEVC compression so naturally they're being conflated by people. It's not just pure processing either, as there are pre-defined levels of brightness that need to be hit by HDR sets, with UHD BD's mandatory HDR function requiring 400 nits for the Maximum Average Light Level in a frame, reserving 1000 nits for specular highlights. Dolby Vision will require 4000 nits.

Penton: point taken about the colourist being caught up with the emotion of the scene, I still don't think it'd be quicker though, he/she might end up watching the movie rather than doing their job.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm no HDR expert but that kinda misses the point. I think.

HDR isn't about blacks, it's about expanding the information contained in the signal between the brightest and darkest points, and seeing as the blacks already go down to Spinal Tap levels of blackness on some TVs it's the other end of the scale that needs expanding upwards, namely the brightness or 'nits'.

It's entirely true that a proper HDR TV will need to have the correct processing in order to recognise and reproduce these HDR sgnals accurately, yet it's not so much a codec but a new EOTF in and of itself. It just happens to be coming along at the same time as HEVC compression so naturally they're being conflated by people. It's not just pure processing either, as there are pre-defined levels of brightness that need to be hit by HDR sets, with UHD BD's mandatory HDR function requiring 400 nits for the Maximum Average Light Level in a frame, reserving 1000 nits for specular highlights. Dolby Vision will require 4000 nits.

Penton: point taken about the colourist being caught up with the emotion of the scene, I still don't think it'd be quicker though, he/she might end up watching the movie rather than doing their job.

So what's the real world benefit? I mean, honestly, my Vizio's backlight w/ a dimmer is at 60%... 100% would just be blinding. Why would I want or require such high highs? If the 120 inch projection screen at my folk's house was even as bright as my Vizio is now, I'd need to throw sunglasses on, lol.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

HDR isn't about blacks, it's about expanding the information contained in the signal between the brightest and darkest points...

To be fair to the EIDRTV (Extended Image Dynamic Range Television), keep in mind the encoding does also help with zee blacks too (e.g. there are new code levels for darker pixels – see… https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post10737499 but change the blue HDR ST 2084 to read 0.005 as the original caption has one too many zeroes , my mistake )

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Penton: point taken about the colourist being caught up with the emotion of the scene, I still don't think it'd be quicker though, he/she might end up watching the movie rather than doing their job.

Slave driver.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

So what's the real world benefit?

I don't wanna pickle…..
JUST wanna ride my moh-tor-sickle.

Arlo Guthrie - Motorcycle Song - YouTube

Eh…. ^ probably before your time Spike, anyway, YouTube HDR explanation from the Wood-er .

How UHDTV will shine - YouTube

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

To be fair to the EIDRTV (Extended Image Dynamic Range Television), keep in mind the encoding does also help with zee blacks too (e.g. there are new code levels for darker pixels – see… https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post10737499 but change the blue HDR ST 2084 to read 0.005 as the original caption has one too many zeroes , my mistake )

As I pointed out in my post following the post you quoted; the caption along the curve is correct (.0005 to 10,000 cd/m2). Look at the chart. The curve clearly starts at .0005. and this is confirmed by the dotted line at the bottom of the chart which is labeled .0005.

Also

SMPTE Standards Update Webcast: Perceptual EOTF - YouTube

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm no HDR expert but that kinda misses the point. I think.

HDR isn't about blacks, it's about expanding the information contained in the signal between the brightest and darkest points, and seeing as the blacks already go down to Spinal Tap levels of blackness on some TVs it's the other end of the scale that needs expanding upwards, namely the brightness or 'nits'.

I'm not edumacted very well with HDR so I apologize in advance.

Wouldn't HDR conflict with OLED's nature of surreal off/on pixels for perfect blacks? I guess not if the HDR is only present on images & not black bars.

[Geoff D]

Ask Ray, I'm out of my depth.

[raygendreau]

While we wait for the UHD Alliance standard I suggest you read or reread:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...&id=1435052975

Perceptual Quantizer (PQ) as proposed by Dolby is 0 to 10,000 cd/m2. The test they ran used equipment capable of reaching ,004 cd/m2. I think this caused some confusion and caused some to believe that PQ is .005 to 10,000 cd/m2. Look at the bar at the bottom of the chart in the linked article for the range of PQ.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

As I pointed out in my post following the post you quoted; the caption along the curve is correct (.0005 to 10,000 cd/m2). Look at the chart. The curve clearly starts at .0005. and this is confirmed by the dotted line at the bottom of the chart which is labeled .0005.

Also...

Doing/thinking two things at once in order to get out the door to beat the freeway traffic. Before we leave for the beach, I’ll make meticulous mathematical amends by adding/elaborating upon things not mentioned in the Webcast -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLBP...utu.be&t=9m54s
By ‘Dark (cinema type) viewing environment’, to be precise, in total, the ambient lighting of the room was < 3 lux, (giving < 0.0001 nits).

As to the first question from Steve…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLBP...tu.be&t=43m12s
Answer - there were 34.0 participants in that study…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ts#post8498218

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Derb

I'm not edumacted very well with HDR so I apologize in advance.

Wouldn't HDR conflict with OLED's nature of surreal off/on pixels for perfect blacks? I guess not if the HDR is only present on images & not black bars.

No need to apologize . There are concerns about OLED with regards to getting bright enough in order to optimize the HDR image…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post11063134

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ask Ray, I'm out of my depth.

Maybe so, but other than with low end, you still did a fairly good job in explainin to Spike.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Maybe so, but other than with low end, you still did a fairly good job in explainin to Spike.

Yes, but then he responds with 'why do I want/require that?' so I'm out.