Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Ernest Rister]

The untold story in the saga (though it was in the script of Episode III) is that Palpatine "willed" Anakin into being through the Dark Side. That's why Anakin had no father and Shmi couldn't explain Anakin's birth.

If he did it once, who says he didn't do it again when Vader got chopped up. Also, Sith cling to life, they don't accept their deaths. Qui Gon, Obi Wan, Yoda...all accepted death...even Anakin, ultimately. Palpatine didn't. If Iam McDiarmid is coming back...it might be as a flashback. Granted, no other Star Wars film features flashbacks, but there's no rule saying they can't.

[toddly6666]

I'm not crazy about the Emperor character returning but Ian was the best actor and most evil-ass villain from both trilogies so I guess I wouldn't mind him returning...especially since these are the only movies he stars in. I never understood why he was never cast in villain roles after the original trilogy or even after the prequels, like a villain in the James Bond films or Lethal Weapon-type films in the 1980s-1990s.

It would be cool if Ian would actually be a scary ghost in the new films rather than just an old chill ghost that sits on logs. With all those damn silly cgi monsters in the prequels that were supposed to be scary or intimidating, the only scary thing in all the prequels was The Emperor in Revenge of the Sith (including his scary forehead).

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Braktastic

With a few exceptions, the Expanded Universe is crap. There's only so many times you can read the same plotline, which roughly equivalates to Emperor Palpatine and/or Darth Vader surrogate villian threaten our heros with a Death Star surrogate weapon. Yawn! Kevin J. Anderson was the worst offender.

I cant agree with this - I enjoyed the novels, especially the Thrawn series and the New Jedi Order series. But, sure, there are plenty of bad books in there.

I still think using *some* of the ideas would work. Such as:

- Leia and han having kids, hopefully twins. Boy and girl.
- Luke abstaining from dating and staying true to the Jedi requirements
- Bringing in some new villians and adversaries
- Keeping Lando involved
- One of the twins begins to turn to the dark side. Maybe.

Other ideas I thought would be cool:

- A clone was made of the Emperor way back. Why not? It makes sense and we have established that cloning is very heavily used in the series as it is. However, perhaps this clone turns out GOOD instead of bad for whatever reason . I dunno.

- Maybe use some flashbacks to tell more detailed backstories of some of the other characters.

We shall see.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

I cant agree with this - I enjoyed the novels, especially the Thrawn series and the New Jedi Order series. But, sure, there are plenty of bad books in there.

I still think using *some* of the ideas would work. Such as:

- Leia and han having kids, hopefully twins. Boy and girl.
- Luke abstaining from dating and staying true to the Jedi requirements
- Bringing in some new villians and adversaries
- Keeping Lando involved
- One of the twins begins to turn to the dark side. Maybe.

Other ideas I thought would be cool:

- A clone was made of the Emperor way back. Why not? It makes sense and we have established that cloning is very heavily used in the series as it is. However, perhaps this clone turns out GOOD instead of bad for whatever reason . I dunno.

- Maybe use some flashbacks to tell more detailed backstories of some of the other characters.

We shall see.

actually luke DOES get married in the EU... for a TON of books.

Mara Jade.

and the EU is FIFTY times better than garbage Lucas came up with for eps 1-3...

there's HUNDREDS of books in the EU so of course there's gonna be some bad ones, but there's some GREAT characters and plotlines in there too

[The Fallen Deity]

If Palpatine does come back, he'll probably be some sort of Sith apparition.

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

If Palpatine does come back, he'll probably be some sort of Sith apparition.

as it should be, like Obi-Wan in Ep 4.

[klauswhereareyou]

Really hope Palpatine isn't back.

[Revolution 9]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Not to get back into the whole Prequel debate...just saying the absence of Kasdan from Episodes 1-3 was deeply felt by yours truly.

RotS was a better film than RotJ ever was. Seriously --- guilt by association is the only reason people fail to see it that way. RotS is associated with the infamous prequels, while RotJ is associated with the revered original trilogy. But judging each film on its own merit, it's clear that RotS > RotJ. You can't possibly convince me otherwise.

The flaws of RotS are relatively minor -- most of which have to do with some cringe-inducing dialogue. On the other hand, the flaws in RotJ are just waaay too big to overlook. Most of which can be directly attributed to the screenplay. Need I remind you:

• The ridiculous plot twist of a second death star.

• The even more ridiculous plot twist of Leia as Luke's sister.

• Han Solo's Three's Company-esque misunderstanding of Leia's love for Luke.

• Character assassination of Han Solo... who was essentially defanged, castrated, and reduced into a bumbling damsel in distress.

• Remember how Bobba Fett died?

• The entire plot of Ewoks mistaking 3PO for a god.

• Ewoks defeating a mechanized imperial platoon.

The awful, awful Rancor Pit sequence remains the only truly dated scene in all of Star Wars. That fight scene looks like something out of a badly choreographed 1960s TV show. It's basically the Star Wars version of Kirk-vs-Gorn. But that has nothing to do with the screenplay, so I'll give Kasdan a pass on that one.

Anyway, the epic Luke/Vader/Emperor confrontation at the end was the only thing that saved the film from becoming a total train wreck. RotJ wasn't a great Star Wars film, and so Kasdan's involvement with Episode VII doesn't do anything for me. He had a terrific start to his career with Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark. But his work since then has been spotty to say the least (and that's just me being kind).

I would've preferred if Star Wars brought in fresh talent. I really don't like the idea of Disney bringing back Lawrence Kasdan, John Williams, Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford. I mean... if they're gonna rehash stuff from 30 years ago they might as well bring back George Lucas.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Really hope Palpatine isn't back.

Palpatine fell down a hole and died, he won't be back.

Originally Posted by Revolution 9

RotS was a better film than RotJ ever was. Seriously --- guilt by association is the only reason people fail to see it that way. RotS is associated with the infamous prequels, while RotJ is associated with the revered original trilogy. But judging each film on its own merit, it's clear that RotS > RotJ. You can't possibly convince me otherwise.

The flaws of RotS are relatively minor -- most of which have to do with some cringe-inducing dialogue. On the other hand, the flaws in RotJ are just waaay too big to overlook. Most of which can be directly attributed to the screenplay. Need I remind you:

• The ridiculous plot twist of a second death star.

• The even more ridiculous plot twist of Leia as Luke's sister.

• Han Solo's Three's Company-esque misunderstanding of Leia's love for Luke.

• Character assassination of Han Solo... who was essentially defanged, castrated, and reduced into a bumbling damsel in distress.

• Remember how Bobba Fett died?

• The entire plot of Ewoks mistaking 3PO for a god.

• Ewoks defeating a mechanized imperial platoon.

The awful, awful Rancor Pit sequence remains the only truly dated scene in all of Star Wars. That fight scene looks like something out of a badly choreographed 1960s TV show. It's basically the Star Wars version of Kirk-vs-Gorn. But that has nothing to do with the screenplay, so I'll give Kasdan a pass on that one.

Anyway, the epic Luke/Vader/Emperor confrontation at the end was the only thing that saved the film from becoming a total train wreck. RotJ wasn't a great Star Wars film, and so Kasdan's involvement with Episode VII doesn't do anything for me. He had a terrific start to his career with Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark. But his work since then has been spotty to say the least (and that's just me being kind).

I would've preferred if Star Wars brought in fresh talent. I really don't like the idea of Disney bringing back Lawrence Kasdan, John Williams, Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford. I mean... if they're gonna rehash stuff from 30 years ago they might as well bring back George Lucas.

I wish we were getting a fresh new SW as well, as it is my expectations for this are the lowest they've ever been by far for a SW film. Oh and RoTJ is the closest thing to complete trash in the SW saga, what a horrid film for the most part.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Revolution 9

RotS was a better film than RotJ ever was. Seriously --- guilt by association is the only reason people fail to see it that way.

I think it is clunky, and requires audiences to do work the screenwriters couldn't. The risible dialog constantly distracts. It doesn't hold up well in subsequent viewings, with boring scenes of commentary and meetings and meaningless action that don't advance the plot. Palpatine doesn't "defeat" Yoda. Yoda blasts Dark Force lightning back at Palpatine, and in the process, slips and falls. Why not dust yourself off and go right back?

The best scenes in that film were ghost-directed by Steven Spielberg in the storyboard stage -- with one exception...the longing stare across the metropolis shared by Padme and Anakin. Best thing in the entire movie.

RotS is associated with the infamous prequels, while RotJ is associated with the revered original trilogy. But judging each film on its own merit, it's clear that RotS > RotJ. You can't possibly convince me otherwise.

Ok, won't try.

The flaws of RotS are relatively minor -- most of which have to do with some cringe-inducing dialogue. On the other hand, the flaws in RotJ are just waaay too big to overlook. Most of which can be directly attributed to the screenplay. Need I remind you:

• The ridiculous plot twist of a second death star.

• The even more ridiculous plot twist of Leia as Luke's sister.

• Han Solo's Three's Company-esque misunderstanding of Leia's love for Luke.

• Character assassination of Han Solo... who was essentially defanged, castrated, and reduced into a bumbling damsel in distress.

• Remember how Bobba Fett died?

• The entire plot of Ewoks mistaking 3PO for a god.

• Ewoks defeating a mechanized imperial platoon.

The awful, awful Rancor Pit sequence remains the only truly dated scene in all of Star Wars. That fight scene looks like something out of a badly choreographed 1960s TV show. It's basically the Star Wars version of Kirk-vs-Gorn. But that has nothing to do with the screenplay, so I'll give Kasdan a pass on that one.

And you DO realize, don't you, that everything you just listed came from Lucas, and Kasdan and Marquand had to do what they could to make any of it work? Leia is Luke's sister? Lucas. Second Death Star? Lucas. Ewoks instead of Wookiees? Lucas. Han Solo "defanged"? Lucas -- and even defanged him in the Special Editions. Kasdan wanted Solo to go down, rounding out his arc from mercenary to martyr. Lucas thought it would be too sad for audiences. You're blaming Lawrence Kasdan, when he did heroic work making that movie work at all.

Anyway, the epic Luke/Vader/Emperor confrontation at the end was the only thing that saved the film from becoming a total train wreck.

Given all that he had to work with, Kasdan still understood how to write Yoda...When writing the prequels, Lucas forgot that Yoda didn't say *everything* bass-ackwards in Empire and Jedi. Only certain lines. Kasdan gave great memorable lines of dialog to both Jabba and Palpatine. Roger Ebert was alarmed when reviewing Attack of the Clones that there wasn't a single line of memorable dialog in the movie (actually, there are memorable lines in AOTC, but not in a good way). And there's no way on this Earth or any other that Kasdan would have handled the love story between Anakin and Padme in such a way that when Padme confessed she loved Anakin, it came across as a surprise to both Anakin and the entire movie going world. "She does? When did that happen?"

RotJ wasn't a great Star Wars film, and so Kasdan's involvement with Episode VII doesn't do anything for me. He had a terrific start to his career with Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark. But his work since then has been spotty to say the least (and that's just me being kind).

Pfft. Have you seen Silverado? The character work, dialog, and action scenes in that film are fantastic. The Big Chill? Body Heat? The Accidental Tourist? Grand Canyon? Mumford? Have you SEEN these movies?

I would've preferred if Star Wars brought in fresh talent.

Michael Arndt - Oscar winner - isn't fresh talent?

I really don't like the idea of Disney bringing back Lawrence Kasdan, John Williams, Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford. I mean... if they're gonna rehash stuff from 30 years ago they might as well bring back George Lucas.

You're probably the only person on the planet not relieved John Williams is coming back.

[klauswhereareyou]

If there is only one scene that saves ROTJ from being a total trainwreck, there are no scenes that save ROTS from being one. It's preaty subpar on every level, and unlike the other prequels, it doesn't even have a compelling fight sequence. Heck the Anakin and Obi Wan rubber men bouncing around while swinging on ropes over lava in something straight out of a bad sci-fi pirate movie is way worse then the rancor scene.

The flaws in Jedi are there, but overall the movie works. Sith has little gems hidden inside a huge turd. Sure there are some good things here and there (at least the digital cinematography doesn't look like BBC circa 2002 here like it did in Clones) but the script and acting are so bad nothing can really save it, save for fanboys who get all excited seeing Tiger Beat model Hayden Christensen burnt and then turned into Mr. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Palpatine fell down a hole and died, he won't be back.

Yeah, not like Hollywood ever brings people back from the dead...

Anyway, latest rumor (that I read a couple of weeks ago), was that he would return as a ghost, much like Obi-Wan, etc. Makes sense, especially since, why wouldn't he? He is AT LEAST as powerful as half the other ghosts. Why would a Sith Master quietly accept his death? Certainly not only the good get to stay around through will of the Force, right?

Didn't the Emporer in fact tell Anakin a story about an old Sith Master who wouldn't accept death? Seems like a great lead in to go from the Emporer's death to, as Obiwan said to Darth Vader - "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine".

If the Emporer is indeed a Sith ghost - he can manipulate at will. The question will be - how can he be destroyed now?

I have no idea if they will go this route since this is all just rumor as of now (and we'll probably get a million more), but it actually has some potential.

[Batman1980]

My current level of expectations for this new SW film being any good is around 10%, if they decide to bring back Palpatine for Episode VII, that will drop even further to near 0. I liked him and think he was a very good/necessary aspect of the saga but his story is over in my eyes.

[klauswhereareyou]

Sith Ghosts...who you gonna call???? Maybe Bill Murray will sign up for this movie since he seems to have no interest in a Ghosbusters 3.

[klauswhereareyou]

Palpatine was like a creepy witch in the OT. In the prequels he came off as Jerry Sandusky.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

And there's no way on this Earth or any other that Kasdan would have handled the love story between Anakin and Padme in such a way that when Padme confessed she loved Anakin, it came across as a surprise to both Anakin and the entire movie going world. "She does? When did that happen?"

Padme - "I love you"
Anakin - "I thought we had decided not to fall in love...that it would destroy our lives."
Padme - "I've been dying just little each day since you came back into my life".



(My little kid has been watching AOTC - and I cringe at that part everytime.)

[Batman1980]

LOL! Gotta love Lucas' writing although to be honest while the romantic writing for Han and Leia was better it had some clunkers as well. I think it says a lot to Natalie's acting talent that she was able to deliver those lines with any sort of weight or emotion, she knew full well how terrible they were.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Revolution 9

Anyway, the epic Luke/Vader/Emperor confrontation at the end was the only thing that saved the film from becoming a total train wreck. RotJ wasn't a great Star Wars film, and so Kasdan's involvement with Episode VII doesn't do anything for me. He had a terrific start to his career with Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark. But his work since then has been spotty to say the least (and that's just me being kind).

I would've preferred if Star Wars brought in fresh talent. I really don't like the idea of Disney bringing back Lawrence Kasdan, John Williams, Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford. I mean... if they're gonna rehash stuff from 30 years ago they might as well bring back George Lucas.

Not true - The final space battle in ROTJ with Lando leading the charge is pretty cool shit. Its not as intense or as well done as The Battle of Yavin in Ep4 but its very cool nonethless.

As for Kasdan - I dont know why hes so highly regarded around here? The guy did a few good things with Star Wars but like you said, since then hes been basically awful. Maybe part of my issue is that I do NOT find The Empire Strikes back to be the best SW film. I think A New Hope is. I might even like EP3 better than Empire. Sorry but thats my take on it. Empire gets entirely too much knob-slobbering, IMO.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Not true - The final space battle in ROTJ with Lando leading the charge is pretty cool shit. Its not as intense or as well done as The Battle of Yavin in Ep4 but its very cool nonethless.

As for Kasdan - I dont know why hes so highly regarded around here? The guy did a few good things with Star Wars but like you said, since then hes been basically awful. Maybe part of my issue is that I do NOT find The Empire Strikes back to be the best SW film. I think A New Hope is. I might even like EP3 better than Empire. Sorry but thats my take on it. Empire gets entirely too much knob-slobbering, IMO.

You obviously haven't seen Raiders of the Lost Ark, Body Heat, The Big Chill, The Accidental Tourist, and Silverado. Go watch Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls, then watch Raiders of the Lost Ark if you need a crash course in how great a writer he is.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

You obviously haven't seen Raiders of the Lost Ark, Body Heat, The Big Chill, The Accidental Tourist, and Silverado. Go watch Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls, then watch Raiders of the Lost Ark if you need a crash course in how great a writer he is.

'Silverado' is an under appreciated classic, in my eyes. Kasdan is behind some of my favorite films, I can't wait to see what he does in his return to the Star Wars universe.