Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by tigertron

We'll see once Star Wars opens in China.

I still can't believe how Avatar became the highest grossing film ever. It was pretty good, but nothing special without the 3D. I guess at the time there was a lot of hype surrounding 3D.

It had the novelty of 3D, James Cameron, incredible visuals brought to life by cutting-edge VFX, and an easily translatable story that could be told and understood the world over. That last one is what people have the biggest problem with but ironically is probably what guaranteed it that extra boost to become #1 all-time.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Still, my love does not allow me to blind myself as to the reality of inflation-adjusted figures. If you are actually being business-minded about this, it doesn't take much to see that a million of 2015 dollars is puny compared to a million of 1939 dollars.

How's this for being "business-minded" - no one involved with the creation of The Force Awakens gives even the tiniest of craps about "adjusted for inflation" charts, as it has absolutely no bearing on the business aspect of the film. I'll take it a step further and say that applies to anyone with any sort of power in Hollywood. Just as no one cared about the adjusted for inflation numbers when Titanic and Avatar were on top, no one cares now.

In fact, the only people who keep bringing it up seem to be angry prequel fans who just can't stand the success this film has already attained. If you take a step back, you might be able to see the reality that's staring you in the face: nobody cares about the adjusted for inflation chart. It's an answer to a trivia question no one's asked.

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

My point precisely. These days, it doesn't take a lot to impress a lot of moviegoers.

So in your world, the only way he could like the film and think it was very well done is if he's easy to impress. Classy.

This must really be bothering you...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

I see why it hit the top spot, just like Titanic it was a spectacle people wanted to see again on the big screen, what I don't get is why it made such huge numbers overseas, it was an incredible success. I guess it just ticked all the boxes and hit a sweet spot of the right time and place.

IMO the story of the natives fighting back against the dastardly human (but basically American) colonialists had more pull worldwide than you might think. [edit] And because the Na'vi were aliens rather than, say, native Americans (e.g. Dances with Wolves) they became the perfect metaphorical catch-all for the foreign audience to project upon.

But yeah, it was definitely a case of a perfect cinematic storm with TKOTW making his comeback, this new 3D tech being used to genuine storytelling effect (i.e. it's not just sticking things in your eyes for the sake of it) allied with a massive IMAX push, it all added up.

[JamesKurtovich]

Lucas always wanted to beat Cameron's numbers. Too bad he wasn't involved.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Lucas always wanted to beat Cameron's numbers. Too bad he wasn't involved.

If he were, he wouldn't have. See how that works

Originally Posted by Mandalorian

It's incredibly dickish that you guys who don't like the movie keep coming back into Star Wars threads to remind people that they're dumb or easy to please because they liked it, and you didn't.

As I said on Facebook the other day:
You're the equivalent of someone standing outside of an amusement park with a bullhorn, screaming at people with smiles on their faces, saying "You're wrong! The rides you just went on sucked! The park you went to 30 years ago was much better!"

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

How's this for being "business-minded" - no one involved with the creation of The Force Awakens gives even the tiniest of craps about "adjusted for inflation" charts, as it has absolutely no bearing on the business aspect of the film. I'll take it a step further and say that applies to anyone with any sort of power in Hollywood. Just as no one cared about the adjusted for inflation numbers when Titanic and Avatar were on top, no one cares now.

In fact, the only people who keep bringing it up seem to be angry prequel fans who just can't stand the success this film has already attained. If you take a step back, you might be able to see the reality that's staring you in the face: nobody cares about the adjusted for inflation chart. It's an answer to a trivia question no one's asked.

It is certainly possible that there might be, somewhere in the universe, "angry prequel fans who just can't stand the success this film has already attained." I don't know any, personally, but maybe there are some.

As I stated previously, I don't think very much of TFA at all but I would still rather see a SW movie at the top of the charts, instead of a James Cameron movie. That TFA has been successful doesn't bother me or surprise me in the slightest - on the contrary, it's great to see this franchise getting back on its feet.

That doesn't blind me to the fact that it is a crass commercial calculation, more than anything, that is driving the movie's staggering business. Of course it makes all the sense in the world, that if you try hard to appease everybody, and back it up with Disney's marketing machine, you are more likely than not to have a very big hit in your hands.

In regards to Hollywood types not caring much about inflation-adjusted figures? Hardly a surprise, either, everyone there is mostly ego-driven, they aren't likely want to acknowledge GWTW still reigns as #1 in inflation-adjusted dollars. That, again, is hardly a surprise at all.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

In regards to Hollywood types not caring much about inflation-adjusted figures? Hardly a surprise, either, everyone there is mostly ego-driven, they aren't likely want to acknowledge GWTW still reigns as #1 in inflation-adjusted dollars. That, again, is hardly a surprise at all.

It's a meaningless piece of trivia that's only brought up by people such as yourself who - for some sad reason - feel the need to undermine the achievements of this film and the people who made it.

[Walts Ghost]

Let's just re-release The Force Awakens seven more times in theaters to really make sure that it had the same variables that Gone with the Wind, that way this argument can quit being brought up. That's only fair, right?

[romuald121]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Lucas always wanted to beat Cameron's numbers. Too bad he wasn't involved.

I can't believe that people are still talking about the Pocahontas-rip-off that is Avatar 6 yrs after its release.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

It's a meaningless piece of trivia that's only brought up by people such as yourself who - for some sad reason - feel the need to undermine the achievements of this film and the people who made it.

See, there you go again. I already said I'm happy to see TFA doing well, and you keep trying to distort what I'm saying by claiming I am somehow trying to undermine the results.

That is utter nonsense, please stop misrepresenting my words - something you are either doing deliberately or accidentally because you truly are not capable of understanding something I already said twice.

Yes, I am happy to see the movie enjoying a wild ride at the box office, I would not be unhappy to see it take #1 globally (at least in non-adjusted figures) and despite all of that, I am still aware that with inflation-adjusted figures, it is still going to be pretty far from being #1 domestically.

Stop seeing everything in black and white and please show you are able to understand more nuanced comments...

[Walts Ghost]

Gone with the Wind, as well as many other classics, had long life's in theaters, and multiple long re-releases that pushed their numbers so high. The fact that The Force Awakens can do that in twenty days is incredible, and it doesn't have multiple re-releases under its belt. If it did, it would be interesting to see just how high it would go, and how many tickets it would sell. That's the only way to get a true look at it. But we won't have that, because home video changed the re-release game, and now movies that are re-released don't do very well in theaters. So For that, inflation or not, The Force Awakens is doing incredibly well against what Gone with the Wind did over multiple releases over years.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

See, there you go again. I already said I'm happy to see TFA doing well, and you keep trying to distort what I'm saying by claiming I am somehow trying to undermine the results.

That is utter nonsense, please stop misrepresenting my words - something you are either doing deliberately or accidentally because you truly are not capable of understanding something I already said twice.

Yes, I am happy to see the movie enjoying a wild ride at the box office, I would not be unhappy to see it take #1 globally (at least in non-adjusted figures) and despite all of that, I am still aware that with inflation-adjusted figures, it is still going to be pretty far from being #1 domestically.

Stop seeing everything in black and white and please show you are able to understand more nuanced comments...

Please - you're as transparent as you could possibly be. How else can you explain why you can't help but remind us - each and every time (including the post I'm responding to) - about the adjusted for inflation chart?

It simply doesn't matter. It's a piece of trivia that has no bearing on anyone or anything in 2016, regardless of how many times you repeat it.

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Gone with the Wind, as well as many other classics, had long life's in theaters, and multiple long re-releases that pushed their numbers so high. The fact that [/I]The Force Awakens[/I] can do that in twenty days is incredible, and it doesn't have multiple re-releases under its belt. If it did, it would be interesting to see just how high it would go, and how many tickets it would sell. That's the only way to get a true look at it. But we won't have that, because home video changed the re-release game, and now movies that are re-released don't do very well in theaters. So For that, inflation or not, The Force Awakens is doing incredibly well against what Gone with the Wind did over multiple releases over years.

Expect all of this to go ignored, just as all of the other posts have been. He doesn't want to consider other variables because it weakens his not-so-subtle digs against the box office success of this film.

I'm out of thumbs right now, but

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

Please - you're as transparent as you could possibly be. How else can you explain why you can't help but remind us - each and every time (including the post I'm responding to) - about the adjusted for inflation chart?

It simply doesn't matter. It's a piece of trivia that has no bearing on anyone or anything in 2016, regardless of how many times you repeat it.



Expect all of this to go ignored, just as all of the other posts have been. He doesn't want to consider other variables because it weakens his not-so-subtle digs against the box office success of this film.

Yeah...I'm as big a fan as you can get for TFA but even *I* think that B.O. numbers today mean absolutely nothing. Inflation and/or ticket sales is what we should be looking at. There will always be other variables but the top 10 (and even 20) list of all-time box office hits is an utter joke (with a few exceptions). Because of inflation and the rising cost of ticket sales (along with 3D, IMAX and the like, which Disney COMPLETELY smartly exploited into getting this win), there's no way to compare a movie made 20 years ago, never-mind 40 or more. This, too, will be crashed in another few years by, no doubt, some worthless steaming pile of trash that just so happened to make a lot of money (aka Avatar).

[Geoff D]

These kinds of numbers are still incredibly impressive in their own right IMO. Older films came from a vastly different era for movies, so their figures are what they are.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Gone with the Wind, as well as many other classics, had long life's in theaters, and multiple long re-releases that pushed their numbers so high. The fact that [/I]The Force Awakens[/I] can do that in twenty days is incredible, and it doesn't have multiple re-releases under its belt. If it did, it would be interesting to see just how high it would go, and how many tickets it would sell. That's the only way to get a true look at it. But we won't have that, because home video changed the re-release game, and now movies that are re-released don't do very well in theaters. So For that, inflation or not, The Force Awakens is doing incredibly well against what Gone with the Wind did over multiple releases over years.

Fair enough, but there are multiple mitigating factors even when you consider those facts. Sure, older movies benefit from re-releases, but newer movies benefit from a much larger population than ever before. There are 300 million Americans now, plus I don't know how many millions of Canadians; what was the North American population in 1939? I think at the peak of moviegoing, about 90 million Americans went to the movies each week.

Also mitigating the impact of re-releases is the fact that movie attendance figures dropped drastically with the adoption of television, and would never recover to what they were in the pre-TV age.

Conversely, newer movies also benefit from the fact that eventual profitability always counts on income from home video, TV sales and other ancillary revenue streams. Those are counted separately from the theatrical box office, but in some instances surpass what movies make in theaters.

At the end of the day, GWTW is still #1 in inflation-adjusted dollars, and TFA will be #1 domestically until something bigger comes along - which just might be Episode 8?

So we have something to look forward to...

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Yeah...I'm as big a fan as you can get for TFA but even *I* think that B.O. numbers today mean absolutely nothing. Inflation and/or ticket sales is what we should be looking at. There will always be other variables but the top 10 (and even 20) list of all-time box office hits is an utter joke (with a few exceptions). Because of inflation and the rising cost of ticket sales (along with 3D, IMAX and the like, which Disney COMPLETELY smartly exploited into getting this win), there's no way to compare a movie made 20 years ago, never-mind 40 or more. This, too, will be crashed in another few years by, no doubt, some worthless steaming pile of trash that just so happened to make a lot of money (aka Avatar).

don't forget older movies being re-released in theaters XX # of times before home video was a thing.

or extra long theater runs on older movies as well.

all played a part in box office back then.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

These kinds of numbers are still incredibly impressive in their own right IMO. Older films came from a vastly different era for movies, so their figures are what they are.

Yes and no. Disney forced theaters into having 75% 3D. That means that, for every ticket sold, they were able to get $3-5 MORE over what they would have gotten. Do you think everyone that went to see this movie would have chosen 3D had they not been forced into it? I've seen it 3 times and that's already 3 times too many in 3D. I'm completely and totally fine with 2D BUT they got my extra money.
Do the math and you realize that it was a brilliant marketing decision. It's like musical artists who bundle the latest CD with ticket purchases. Those ticket purchases translate into one CD sold, regardless of whether the buyer wanted it or not.
I'm not saying that TFA doesn't deserve what it's getting. I'm THRILLED with how it turned out and will see it several more times in theaters. However, let's not pretend that it got there by completely above-board methods. Disney sold it with a premium and is reaping the benefits.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Yeah...I'm as big a fan as you can get for TFA but even *I* think that B.O. numbers today mean absolutely nothing. Inflation and/or ticket sales is what we should be looking at. There will always be other variables but the top 10 (and even 20) list of all-time box office hits is an utter joke (with a few exceptions). Because of inflation and the rising cost of ticket sales (along with 3D, IMAX and the like, which Disney COMPLETELY smartly exploited into getting this win), there's no way to compare a movie made 20 years ago, never-mind 40 or more. This, too, will be crashed in another few years by, no doubt, some worthless steaming pile of trash that just so happened to make a lot of money (aka Avatar).

I can't agree. As I've pointed out, there are far too many variables at play besides inflation to make any sort of meaningful or accurate adjustment. At best, it's a piece of nerd trivia for guys like us to argue about incessantly (so I guess it has a little value, in that sense.)

Originally Posted by Geoff D

These kinds of numbers are still incredibly impressive in their own right IMO. Older films came from a vastly different era for movies, so their figures are what they are.

Indeed.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

don't forget older movies being re-released in theaters XX # of times before home video was a thing.

or extra long theater runs on older movies as well.

all played a part in box office back then.

Well, yes. So should we just dismiss the amount of tickets sold? I mean, that's what is REALLY impressive. If you look at how many people bought a ticket to, say, Star Wars and compare it to one of the other top 10 movies, THAT is what's amazing. You realize how entranced the public was with that particular movie. And how many people actually went to the movies back then.

Now? It's all dollars and cents. And you can't compare 1977 to now unless you adjust for inflation. And, if you do that, current movies get slaughtered.

That's why these records will fall constantly. Because ticket prices are going WAYYYYY up.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

These kinds of numbers are still incredibly impressive in their own right IMO. Older films came from a vastly different era for movies, so their figures are what they are.

I agree, but at the same time it goes both ways when it comes to the advantages and disadvantages films of the different eras had. The world population was much smaller back in the day, for the first half of the 20th century the US population for example was around a third of the size it is today so it's still pretty impressive how well films like Gone with the Wind did back then.