Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by darry

Finally watched. Felt the story was a little weak and the nods to the past tedious. I liked all the new additions, Rey, Finn, Ren and Poe (God! those names are annoying), but for some reason I wasn't pulled into the SW universe like the movies of old. Even the first three, with their amazingly bad acting and direction, are superior in this regard. On the plus side, the CGI looks amazing.

A question though.

[Show spoiler]How does Rey go from being a scavenger to being a Jedi in the space of the movie without any training

? For the experts of SW lore, is this possible? To put the smack down on a trained Jedi just from them reading your mind and you reading theirs in return? I think I need an extended edition to understand all this.

Its obvious

[Show spoiler] Rey has had some training somewhere probably before she got dumped on Jaku. Luke was not surprised to see her he had more of a I guess its time look on his face.

[Det. Bullock]

I think the theory that Rey

[Show spoiler]had some training is bunk, she is just extremely powerful and has been exposed to a similar mind-influencing technique shortly before, she does even need to try it a few times before actually making it work.

[Himmel]

What I think is bollocks is

[Show spoiler]they're trying to say Snoke is not Sith nor Jedi, if that's true then how come he says There has been an awakening.. how could he be normal, and feel it.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by HimmelBlau

What I think is bollocks is

[Show spoiler]they're trying to say Snoke is not Sith nor Jedi, if that's true then how come he says There has been an awakening.. how could he be normal, and feel it.

If the theory that

[Show spoiler]Snoke is just a puppet-master pulling strings, not necessarily a big Sith Lord, is true, then he could very well be aware of an Awakening without having felt it himself (remember he tells Kylo it's time to finish his training, not that HE will finish training Kylo). But I tend to think that Snoke is a Sith, despite what people related to the movie have said. It just doesn't make much sense for him not to be.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by HimmelBlau

What I think is bollocks is

[Show spoiler]they're trying to say Snoke is not Sith nor Jedi, if that's true then how come he says There has been an awakening.. how could he be normal, and feel it.

"Sith" and "jedi" are beliefs based on the force, you can be a force sensitive and be neither, either because you refuse that label or because you actually don't have their specific knowledge of the force or whatever reason*, the witches of Dathomir seen in Clone Wars use the force but they are neither Jedi nor Sith.

*

[Show spoiler]with the Knights of Ren I think is a bit of both, having probably only a few scraps of old Sith lore they don't consider themselves Sith, I think that the veneration Kylo Ren has for Darth Vader is a strong clue in that regard, they venerate the memory of the Sith but they don't consider themselves quite at their level.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by HimmelBlau

What I think is bollocks is

[Show spoiler]they're trying to say Snoke is not Sith nor Jedi, if that's true then how come he says There has been an awakening.. how could he be normal, and feel it.

He has the Force, but

[Show spoiler]he doesn't identify as a Sith, likely because he was never mentored by one.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

"Sith" and "jedi" are beliefs based on the force, you can be a force sensitive and be neither, either because you refuse that label or because you actually don't have their specific knowledge of the force or whatever reason*, the witches of Dathomir seen in Clone Wars use the force but they are neither Jedi nor Sith.

*

[Show spoiler]with the Knights of Ren I think is a bit of both, having probably only a few scraps of old Sith lore they don't consider themselves Sith, I think that the veneration Kylo Ren has for Darth Vader is a strong clue in that regard, they venerate the memory of the Sith but they don't consider themselves quite at their level.

Yeah, something that I love about Clone Wars is that it takes the exploration of the Force beyond merely Sith and Jedi. The Mortis trilogy was AWESOMENESS, as was Yoda's descent into the Force itself in S6.

I'm still not sold on Rey being some badass Force user after having read the Jedi Training Manual a couple of times though. That's one of my biggest beefs with the movie and I sincerely hope it gets addressed in Ep VIII, whether

[Show spoiler]it's revealed that she's a daughter of Skywalker (which would be an automatic GOJF card) or she's had prior training that's been erased from her memory, whatever. I just pray that they don't ignore resolving that issue.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, something that I love about Clone Wars is that it takes the exploration of the Force beyond merely Sith and Jedi. The Mortis trilogy was AWESOMENESS, as was Yoda's descent into the Force itself in S6.

I'm still not sold on Rey being some badass Force user after having read the Jedi Training Manual a couple of times though. That's one of my biggest beefs with the movie and I sincerely hope it gets addressed in Ep VIII, whether

[Show spoiler]it's revealed that she's a daughter of Skywalker (which would be an automatic GOJF card) or she's had prior training that's been erased from her memory, whatever. I just pray that they don't ignore resolving that issue.

She barely influences one stormtrooper and has a force epiphany during a duel woth a force user that was beating her even though he was shot with a wookie bowcaster and still bleeding.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

She barely influences one stormtrooper and has a force epiphany during a duel woth a force user that was beating her even though he was shot with a wookie bowcaster and still bleeding.

Yeah. And said force user was purposely not trying to kill her, but trying to spare her. She really didn't do much with the force like everyone wants to pretend she did.

[chip75]

Spoilers!

[Spencie]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

I tend to think that Snoke is a Sith, despite what people related to the movie have said. It just doesn't make much sense for him not to be. [/SPOILER]

But it seems so boring for him to be a Sith Lord at this point. I think a fresh take would be for Kylo to end up mastering the darkside of the force and overthrowing Snoke, who seems so underwhelming as the new "Big-Bad".

Originally Posted by darry

A question though.

[Show spoiler]How does Rey go from being a scavenger to being a Jedi in the space of the movie without any training

? For the experts of SW lore, is this possible? To put the smack down on a trained Jedi just from them reading your mind and you reading theirs in return? I think I need an extended edition to understand all this.

It's a Kenobi thing.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, something that I love about Clone Wars is that it takes the exploration of the Force beyond merely Sith and Jedi. The Mortis trilogy was AWESOMENESS, as was Yoda's descent into the Force itself in S6.

I'm still not sold on Rey being some badass Force user after having read the Jedi Training Manual a couple of times though. That's one of my biggest beefs with the movie and I sincerely hope it gets addressed in Ep VIII, whether

[Show spoiler]it's revealed that she's a daughter of Skywalker (which would be an automatic GOJF card) or she's had prior training that's been erased from her memory, whatever. I just pray that they don't ignore resolving that issue.

Luke pretty much got the basic hang of the Force pretty quickly in ANH, Rey doing the same (albeit using the Force in different ways) isn't that unreasonable. But yeah, that'll mean she has to be someone special's kid, like Luke was, and Luke is gonna do the whole "I am your father" thing to her (but hopefully let her keep the arm).

[Geoff D]

Eh, it's not someone discovering their latent power that I have a problem with, it's that power coming up out of nowhere. Qui-Gon giving Ani some tips and Obi-Wan & Yoda doing the full 'wizened mentor' thing with Luke are fine, but Rey discovering it on her tod and leaving those answers as pure sequel bait seemed so cheap to me. Typical JJ 'mystery box' bullshit.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by darry

Finally watched. Felt the story was a little weak and the nods to the past tedious. I liked all the new additions, Rey, Finn, Ren and Poe (God! those names are annoying), but for some reason I wasn't pulled into the SW universe like the movies of old. Even the first three, with their amazingly bad acting and direction, are superior in this regard. On the plus side, the CGI looks amazing.

A question though.

[Show spoiler]How does Rey go from being a scavenger to being a Jedi in the space of the movie without any training

? For the experts of SW lore, is this possible? To put the smack down on a trained Jedi just from them reading your mind and you reading theirs in return? I think I need an extended edition to understand all this.

I share those same criticisms. Up till now, we've been given a blueprint as to how force sensitive people are recognized and trained. TFA ignored that and just did its own thing leaving us to have to conjure up theories (which may or may not be correct) on our own to to explain it. Some might be fine with that but for me, that's a problem that didn't go away with repeated viewings. As far as I'm concerned,

[Show spoiler]Rey should've been dominated from start to finish, which would've made for a more satisfying comeback after some proper training.

The amnesia or just born powerful theories don't work well for me for reasons I've explained before. Like I said, they work for some but not for me. I prefer it when franchises follow their own rules and don't ask me to fill in the gaps.

[Himmel]

Anyone read the novel?

I am quoting here:

[Show spoiler]"Kill Him!! The voice inside her head said, it was amorphous unidentifiable, raw. Pure vengeful emotion. So easy she told herself. So quick.

Now if that wasn't

[Show spoiler]Snoke than who was is it...Luke??

[Geoff D]

I started reading the novel, got a few pages in and realised I didn't give a shit about the printed version either. Darn it.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Eh, it's not someone discovering their latent power that I have a problem with, it's that power coming up out of nowhere. Qui-Gon giving Ani some tips and Obi-Wan & Yoda doing the full 'wizened mentor' thing with Luke are fine, but Rey discovering it on her tod and leaving those answers as pure sequel bait seemed so cheap to me. Typical JJ 'mystery box' bullshit.

"We wanted to tell a story that had its own self-contained beginning, middle, and end but at the same time, like A New Hope, implied a history that preceded it and also hinted at a future to follow."



http://www.wired.com/?p=1922154

[Nightrunner]

Rey's training.

[Show spoiler]Some people are upset that they did not see any training. On Jakku she did some extensive climbing and repelling while savaging. Also, she learned how to defend herself against thugs. And then there is flying the Falcon. In one of the numerous crashed ships she came across a flight simulator and taught herself how to fly.

As for the mind powers...

[Show spoiler]Maz Kanata's advice along with the visions Rey had after touch the lightsaber provided the knowledge she needed.

[Spencie]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

I share those same criticisms. Up till now, we've been given a blueprint as to how force sensitive people are recognized and trained. TFA ignored that and just did its own thing leaving us to have to conjure up theories (which may or may not be correct) on our own to to explain it. Some might be fine with that but for me, that's a problem that didn't go away with repeated viewings. As far as I'm concerned,

[Show spoiler]Rey should've been dominated from start to finish, which would've made for a more satisfying comeback after some proper training.

The amnesia or just born powerful theories don't work well for me for reasons I've explained before. Like I said, they work for some but not for me. I prefer it when franchises follow their own rules and don't ask me to fill in the gaps.

I'm hoping the next installment retcons this issue. I love the pace of Luke's learning curve in the original trilogy and I feel like having Rey jump straight into mind-tricks and lightsaber combat is the result of a much more desensitized generation that seeks instant gratification.

Finn's ability to duel with a lightsaber didn't sit right with me either (assuming of course that he isn't force-sensitive).

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Eh, it's not someone discovering their latent power that I have a problem with, it's that power coming up out of nowhere. Qui-Gon giving Ani some tips and Obi-Wan & Yoda doing the full 'wizened mentor' thing with Luke are fine, but Rey discovering it on her tod and leaving those answers as pure sequel bait seemed so cheap to me. Typical JJ 'mystery box' bullshit.

It's probably a good thing that Abrams stuck to his strengths though. He's far better and creating a sense of rising action than a conclusion, but it does leave the whole thing feeling a little to ambiguous for its own good.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

"We wanted to tell a story that had its own self-contained beginning, middle, and end but at the same time, like A New Hope, implied a history that preceded it and also hinted at a future to follow."



http://www.wired.com/?p=1922154

Heh, that's not so much a hint, more a party political broadcast.