Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Spencie

I feel like they're going to leave the whole prophecy mess in the dust where it belongs. The prequels barely elaborated on it, leaving us to ponder if Anakin or Luke was actually the chosen one. To take it a step further and presume that Rey is somehow the chosen one just seems sloppily redundant.

Well the thing with the new movies is now Disney/LFL have a chance to go and retroactively "fix" the prequels and make them more relevant (as much as that's possible, for some people). This would be a good way to do that -- acknowledge the prequels, fix one of their major oversights (not really fleshing out the prophecy beyond vague statements), and use it as a way to propel the overall story forward.

I'm against retconning anything from the original I-VI in general, but this might be a rare instance where such a thing is beneficial.

The other side of the coin is that not Rey, but Kylo Ren (the son of Skywalker, as it were) is really the One, and will bring balance to the Force by defeating Snoke/the First Order (and in the process, dying himself, most likely).

[Spencie]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Well the thing with the new movies is now Disney/LFL have a chance to go and retroactively "fix" the prequels and make them more relevant (as much as that's possible, for some people). This would be a good way to do that -- acknowledge the prequels, fix one of their major oversights (not really fleshing out the prophecy beyond vague statements), and use it as a way to propel the overall story forward.

I'm against retconning anything from the original I-VI in general, but this might be a rare instance where such a thing is beneficial.

The other side of the coin is that not Rey, but Kylo Ren (the son of Skywalker, as it were) is really the One, and will bring balance to the Force by defeating Snoke/the First Order (and in the process, dying himself, most likely).

I hope they ignore it all together though. We've met our quota on narrative parallels between The Force Awakens and the other Star Wars films, and I say that with love. Unless Star Wars actually decides to conclude with a finite ending (as if that will ever happen now), the idea of a prophecy being fulfilled over and over is just downright repetitive.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Spencie

I hope they ignore it all together though. We've met our quota on narrative parallels between The Force Awakens and the other Star Wars films, and I say that with love. Unless Star Wars actually decides to conclude with a finite ending (as if that will ever happen now), the idea of a prophecy being fulfilled over and over is just downright repetitive.

I know WE have, but I dunno if Disney/LFL have We're probably set for more "rhyming," they'll call it loving homage but it'll really be "let's not stray too far, lest we lose all these OT fans we've won back."

I hope I'm wrong, though. Rian Johnson is the perfect guy to take this trilogy is a new, darker direction.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Eh, it's not someone discovering their latent power that I have a problem with, it's that power coming up out of nowhere. Qui-Gon giving Ani some tips and Obi-Wan & Yoda doing the full 'wizened mentor' thing with Luke are fine, but Rey discovering it on her tod and leaving those answers as pure sequel bait seemed so cheap to me. Typical JJ 'mystery box' bullshit.

How is it different, really, to Anakin being the only human pod racer due to his fast reactions and ability to see things before they happen ie using the force without realising it. I'm sure in Ep 8 someone will test her blood

Having seen it three times now, I've decided I have a problem with the pacing of the last ten minutes or so. It all happens far too quickly for my liking.

[mjvmovieman]

I actually like that Kylo was a whiny brat in a way because it was fitting to the story. He is desperate to be the equivalent of his grandfather but he never will be. He wears a mask he doesn't need to appear menacing. And I like how other characters poked fun at him for it. Adam Driver really was perfect for the role. With that said I hope a much more sinister villain takes prominence in the sequel.

[ambient_indie]

I don't think Kylo Ren as a villain. He's an antagonist. Once he took off his mask it was obvious we were in a different character than Vader. Arguably the most convincing conflicted antagonist. Young and foolish. A hot head who will kill anyone and anything at any moment for no reason. The young violence prone is the most realist killer. Others may think of him as this whiny kid but I'll tell you these are the type you hear in the news in the past few years.

Darth Vader in A New Hope is a villain. He's established by the first scene we're introduced to him. I think that's why it's so hard to shift from conflicted anakin in the prequels to established villain in a new hope.

[stvn1974]

I thought Luke was Kylo Ren?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by KRW1

How is it different, really, to Anakin being the only human pod racer due to his fast reactions and ability to see things before they happen ie using the force without realising it. I'm sure in Ep 8 someone will test her blood

Having seen it three times now, I've decided I have a problem with the pacing of the last ten minutes or so. It all happens far too quickly for my liking.

Ah, but I dont got a problem with Rey having dat mad pilot skill or being able to protect herself against the scum of Jakku, it's the proper Forcey things that get my goat. I didn't see Luke or Anakin dropping no mind tricks in their respective introductory chapters.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ah, but I dont got a problem with Rey having dat mad pilot skill or being able to protect herself against the scum of Jakku, it's the proper Forcey things that get my goat. I didn't see Luke or Anakin dropping no mind tricks in their respective introductory chapters.

Maybe she's just really persuasive? We know how Trooper JB-007 gets around women.

[Geoff D]

JB ain't dat *****-whipped, no sir

[Grim Reaper]

sucks this isnt getting a 4k release...

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ah, but I dont got a problem with Rey having dat mad pilot skill or being able to protect herself against the scum of Jakku, it's the proper Forcey things that get my goat. I didn't see Luke or Anakin dropping no mind tricks in their respective introductory chapters.

Well, Ani might have tried but mind tricks don't work on Watto so there's that.

Luke though - couldn't even get to the academy at the same time as Biggs and Tank, because of some harvest. He was shit at it.

[Geoff D]

Ani was too busy working on his game with that smooth "are you an Angel?" line.

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by Grim Reaper

sucks this isnt getting a 4k release...

Relax no one said it wasnt supposedly Disney is not getting into 4K until 2017.

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ani was too busy working on his game with that smooth "are you an Angel?" line.

Wasn't Lucas going to repeat what he did for Ep.1 (make it be about children) for Ep.7 is that why Disney shut him down.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HimmelBlau

Wasn't Lucas going to repeat what he did for Ep.1 (make it be about children) for Ep.7 is that why Disney shut him down.

I think the rumours were that his treatment skewed towards younger protagonists with very little of the old cast, yeah.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by HimmelBlau

Wasn't Lucas going to repeat what he did for Ep.1 (make it be about children) for Ep.7 is that why Disney shut him down.

I think there's probably more than a few differences with Lucas' vision compared to this one. He hinted at some of it in his interview with Charlie Rose. For one, I'm sure he didn't intend a female protagonist by stating that his story was like a soap opera in that it had to do with a grandfather, father and son. Another is that he called this new story "retro" in its direction. He stated that he always wanted to do something new with the series while keeping it about the Skywalker family, suggesting that this ep.VII is retreading old ground in contrast to what he would've done. In light of that, I'd at least like to hear his ideas on what exactly his vision is. Not that it matters too much now but I'd like to hear them.

[darry]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Maybe "scary" is the wrong word, but he's certainly an imposing villain... when the mask is on. Driver is a good actor, I don't fault him for any of this (his physical presence as Kylo Ren is incredible), but once he took the mask off (on the bridge and in the snow) he just reminded me too much of "it's all Obi-Wan's fault HE'S HOLDING ME BACK!" I hope they make him more menacing in the future films. And I hope to God that they don't bother trying to redeem him. What's done is done and there's no coming back from it.

I didn't see much of the whole sooky persona some are seeing in Driver's performance.i saw him as someone who is going to be a ruthless villain worth taking down over the next couple of episodes.

[Show spoiler] But this all falls apart in the final scenes with Rey because he's completely shown up by her and makes him look weak, not her.

. I thought, I might be wrong, that the dark side was always more powerful at seducing the talented users of the force. that's why they are villains, because they use the dark powers irresponsibly, wheras the users of the light are doubting characters that are never convinced of their powers. I did see this in Ren and Rey but I think I saw it in a really condensed way that wasn't convincing.

[jayman3]

There's a video online showing all the shot by shot comparisons to The Force Awakens and original Star Wars. Not sure if it's been posted here.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I didn't think he was scary to begin with, and my liking for the character greatly improved once he took his mask off because it was one of the few beats that did something for for this movie's own story rather than retreading someone else's. Driver was probably my favourite thing about the movie.

I agree-- I don't think his character was scary, nor was it really supposed to be. He's a punk kid who's trying to fill Vader'shoes. Some people were disappointed in the character because of the unmask reveal, which is what I loved about it.