Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

There is just enough good about the prequels to allow me to stil watch and enjoy them when I watch Star Wars. But, its aggravating thinking about the problems and what could have been.

That's always been my biggest issue. I remember hearing about Attack of the Clones and the producer (Rick McCullum?) talking it up and saying, "You'll see for the first time, what it is like when a hundred Jedi's go into battle".

Then, I saw it and it pretty much looked to me like they all got their butts kicked by some droids.

It really was just so depressing and so strikingly unimaginative.

All the prequels had their moments of coolness (some bordering on greatness), but there were so many shockingly bad moments that it is hard to ignore.

The thing is, these missed opportunities wouldn't be such a big deal in most other movies - but so many people, myself included, had been dreaming about seeing this play out on a big screen for years. And to have it finally happen - and miss the mark by so much was truly frustrating.

I have a lot of faith that JJ gets what the fans (himself included) loved about Star Wars. Really looking forward to this franchise getting another chance, and maybe...just maybe...being a little closer to what we had all been hoping for.

[pmac]

Originally Posted by octagon

Name three people who have said that.

If even one person has said it, that is 1 too many!

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Nah, you're probably right. The prequels disappoint at many levels. I can agree with that, as much as it pains me to do so. I WANT to love them but its hard to. But, thats what makes us fans...we keep coming back even though we arent thrilled about the product. Like fans that keep paying to watch crappy sports teams year in, year out.

There is just enough good about the prequels to allow me to stil watch and enjoy them when I watch Star Wars. But, its aggravating thinking about the problems and what could have been.

+1

I wasn't expecting Shakespeare when watching the prequels. The framework Lucas came up with for the prequels does not work anywhere nearly as well as the one he came up with for the Original Trilogy. Luke's journey to becoming a Jedi is much more entertaining than watching Anakin's journey.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

Oh god, what have I brought into this discussion? *flees before discussion gets ugly*

no, the discussion isn't getting ugly but I am tired of that excuse being used. I never got to see the first 3 Star Wars films in theatre so I had to watch them on tv. I think a lot of people did. but I can pop that vhs tape in and relive that experience anytime I want. Would I like to see it remastered into 1080? sure but I am not losing any sleep over it. and even for those who saw it in the theatre, is that the only way you have watched the movie? you saw it in the theatre once(or 15 times depending on who you are) but mostly you watched it at home on vhs - nothing is taking that experience away from you. why not blame theatres for ruining your childhood because they are not constantly showing Star Wars so you can go see it in the theatre anytime you want? If anything, you get a better experince with the dvd version even if it isn't remastered. and besides, you are NOT a child anymore. nothing he does now can ruin your childhood because it is OVER. it is one of the dumbest complaints I have ever heard because it just doesn't hold up. people don't want Star Wars as they remember it, they want Star Wars but with crystal clear picture, 7.1 surround, and great effects which isn't what the original Star Wars had. see, wasn't too ugly

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by octagon

Name three people who have said that.

Frank, Joe and Johnny.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

it is one of the dumbest complaints I have ever heard...

You spelled never wrong.

Your three imaginary friends notwithstanding.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by octagon

Name three people who have said that.

Truth.

I always read 'I hate people who say George Lucas ruined their childhood,' but I've yet to read 'George Lucas ruined my childhood.'

[rickah88]

Ho-hum, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

George Lucas has given me so much more than he's ever taken away...and for that I'll always be thankful.

[obiwopkenobi62]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Ho-hum, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

George Lucas has given me so much more than he's ever taken away...and for that I'll always be thankful.

I couldn't have said it better myself bro. There is so much more awesome Star Wars than bad. George didn't ruin my childhood, he added some joy to it along with everything else.

[blonde_devil]

in the end, it is time to stop complaining about what Lucas did or didn't do. you paid the ticket to see the movie or to own a copy of it, not to own it. he did. you may not like what he did with "Star Wars" the franchise and feel he ruined it but nothing he did will ever take away from the awe and wonder you had when you first saw the movie. if anything, he made your childhood by giving you something so unique and different to watch.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

That's always been my biggest issue. I remember hearing about Attack of the Clones and the producer (Rick McCullum?) talking it up and saying, "You'll see for the first time, what it is like when a hundred Jedi's go into battle".

Then, I saw it and it pretty much looked to me like they all got their butts kicked by some droids.

It really was just so depressing and so strikingly unimaginative.

All the prequels had their moments of coolness (some bordering on greatness), but there were so many shockingly bad moments that it is hard to ignore.

The thing is, these missed opportunities wouldn't be such a big deal in most other movies - but so many people, myself included, had been dreaming about seeing this play out on a big screen for years. And to have it finally happen - and miss the mark by so much was truly frustrating.

I have a lot of faith that JJ gets what the fans (himself included) loved about Star Wars. Really looking forward to this franchise getting another chance, and maybe...just maybe...being a little closer to what we had all been hoping for.

Yes! Waiting and imagining everything playing out did add to the disappointment because I wanted so much to see things build up properly to what happened in the original trilogy. I really wanted to see:

1) Obi Wan and Anakins friendship developed properly which would have made the whole EP3 end fight more tragic than it was. Instead, we are "told" they are buddies but generally it appears they cant stand each other for most of the films. Just didnt work.

2) The love story. Ugh - just handled poorly. I was OK with Anakins feelings for Padme and his Mother causing him to blow his stack but it just had so many cheesey moments and like the Obi Wan relationship it didnt have enough weight or substance.

3) A little more about Han Solo & Chewie. Why does Chewy love him so much?

4) Reveal more awesomeness about the force and maintain its mystery. Instead, its focking blood parasites or something..... uggggh....

5) A better batch of sub villians. Maul was great but the rest were garbage and Maul didnt last long at all. HE should have been in the role that Count Chocula errr.... ummm.... Count Dooku was in. Very lame and disposable.

Theres more nitpicks but those are the highlights. The films just fell flat in too many places. But, damnit.... Im still a big fan.

[Indyjones]

Most of the problems with the PT would've been alleviated if Lucas had a compitent writer to help flesh out the story arc and script. And that's the thing - he tried to get help. He asked Kasden, Darabont and who knows who else. Everyone turned him down. Although, I think Darabont said yes at one point but dropped out. So he really had no choice to but to write it himself and bring in script doctors if and when he could. I'm kinda puzzled that Kasden said no, but said yes to the sequel trilogy and the origin films.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Indyjones

Most of the problems with the PT would've been alleviated if Lucas had a compitent writer to help flesh out the story arc and script. And that's the thing - he tried to get help. He asked Kasden, Darabont and who knows who else. Everyone turned him down. Although, I think Darabont said yes at one point but dropped out. So he really had no choice to but to write it himself and bring in script doctors if and when he could. I'm kinda puzzled that Kasden said no, but said yes to the sequel trilogy and the origin films.

wasn't that though because of how Lucas handled the original movies? I seem to remember hearing Star Wars was really a group effort but as he got into Empire and Jedi, that started to go away and it became more about what he wanted even if it hurt the film. I know Kasden wasn't really happy about Jedi as it kind of took the last 4 movies they were planning and squished them all into one.

the writing didn't really help Episodes 1-3. there were interesting ideas in all of the movies but they just didn't work like they should. that is something to watch out for in Episode 7 - you have a generation who grew up on the original trilogy and think it is great but you have a more recent generation who grew up on the prequels and those are newer movies. it would be very easy to fall into the trap of saying that is how movies are done now and just continue down that path.

[AmrlKJaneway]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Truth.

I always read 'I hate people who say George Lucas ruined their childhood,' but I've yet to read 'George Lucas ruined my childhood.'

Watch "The People Vs. George Lucas". It's a terrible film, but several people say that and worse in it.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by AmrlKJaneway

Watch "The People Vs. George Lucas". It's a terrible film, but several people say that and worse in it.

now the question is how many of those people were dressed in bathrobe Jedi Knight costumes with plastic lightsabers? and I am a Star Wars fan, really I am.

[AmrlKJaneway]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

now the question is how many of those people were dressed in bathrobe Jedi Knight costumes with plastic lightsabers? and I am a Star Wars fan, really I am.

Yeah, they were all fools.

[RyanPom]

Originally Posted by AmrlKJaneway

Watch "The People Vs. George Lucas". It's a terrible film, but several people say that and worse in it.

I find it hard to believe the guys in their bad Jedi costumes had their childhood ruined by Lucas, lol.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

I mean, he is donating all the money he got from Disney for a better cause.

I have to admit, I was quite surprised when I originally heard about that.

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

People are gonna rag on him for years on end for basically giving them what amounts to two average movies and a decent enough one (had they not been labeled Star Wars movies, of course).

Well, there was also that whole business with him endlessly adding stupid changes to the original movies with each new video release and basically going "I know you love the original versions, but I hate them, so you'll never see them in a quality presentation again. And if you don't like it, then tough shit"

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

It's just that in the end, aren't we just a little too harsh on the man that gave us something that we may never experience again?

I will agree that some definitely are. However, that still doesn't mean that he should be immune to criticism or shouldn't have his bad decisions come into question just because he's the original creator, which is what many of his most die hard defenders seem to argue. I mean that's just absurd.

But like I said in another post, I'm pretty much past a lot of this by now. Lucas has thankfully retired, he's no longer the sole owner of the franchise, a completely new regime of talent is taking over and handling the next movie, and there's even a much better chance now that we might get the originals in the next couple of years. So contrary to the impression I might have given off before, I actually do have a more positive outlook on things now than I used to.

[Indyjones]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

wasn't that though because of how Lucas handled the original movies? I seem to remember hearing Star Wars was really a group effort but as he got into Empire and Jedi, that started to go away and it became more about what he wanted even if it hurt the film. I know Kasden wasn't really happy about Jedi as it kind of took the last 4 movies they were planning and squished them all into one.

I'm not sure, but if what you stated is correct, that would help explain as to why Kasden is willing to work on the films, but passed on the prequels. I'm a diehard SW fan and grew up with the originals. I like the PT as well - warts and all. But I will say, they were for the most part, poorly executed. They just feel like Lucas was more interested in playing with his new toys at his disposal and advancing the film industry forward than he was in telling a compelling story and then executing that story at a level we were accustomed to seeing from him in the 70's and early 80's. The PT would've benefitted greatly from the group effort that we saw in the OT, even with Lucas in the director's chair.

IMO, it wasn't A New Hope, but Raiders and Empire that ultimately started his downfall. The success of those films were what changed Lucas from the filmmaker we had grown to love, to the business man we've grown to hate. Every film that Lucas made up to Empire was a struggle and a gamble. Lucas was at his best when he had his back against the wall, with a limited budget and studio exec's breathing down his neck. That all changed, starting with Jedi.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

that is something to watch out for in Episode 7 - you have a generation who grew up on the original trilogy and think it is great but you have a more recent generation who grew up on the prequels and those are newer movies. it would be very easy to fall into the trap of saying that is how movies are done now and just continue down that path.

The only "style" of the PT was "bad." As long as they don't repeat that, EP VII will be golden.