Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

:d

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/indi...crystal_skull/

Kingdom of Crystal Skull - Positve and rated Certified Fresh.

Im not sure if im arguing with you or agreeing with you?

The point is that the prequels are known to generally suck but their existance wont prevent poor money returns from future Star Wars films.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/indi...crystal_skull/

Kingdom of Crystal Skull - Positve and rated Certified Fresh.

Im not sure if im arguing with you or agreeing with you?

The point is that the prequels are known to generally suck but their existance wont prevent poor money returns from future Star Wars films.

I get your point, but I think Sith gets lumped into the failures of I and II far too often. People seem to forget that the movie was/is well liked. I think if people forgot about I and II entirely and just pictured The Clone Wars leading into III, that this nonsensical glossing over of Sith's strengths and Jedi's failures wouldn't be as common.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

No generation has been or will be turned off with Star Wars. The Phantom Menace wasnt that good - it didnt stop people from seeing the following bad prequels. With good reviews or not, this movie is going to make massive amounts of money.

And when those 3 and half and four star reviews come floating in, it's going to make more money on top of more money.

The domestic amount for AOTC dropped off considerably after Phantom by over a 100 million. It up-ticked 80 million for ROTS, but still didn't top PM numbers.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

I get your point, but I think Sith gets lumped into the failures of I and II far too often. People seem to forget that the movie was/is well liked. I think if people forgot about I and II entirely and just pictured The Clone Wars leading into III, that this nonsensical glossing over of Sith's strengths and Jedi's failures wouldn't be as common.

I agree for the most part-- I think for a lot of people, "Prequels" equal Jar Jar, Jake "Yippeeeee!" Lloyd, and the infamously horrendous love story in Episode II. And they're not necessarily wrong to do so-- that's the first two-thirds of Lucas' prequel saga. Taking "Clone Wars" and Episode III together you have a decent and not embarrassing back story for the saga.

But I still think Sith had some very serious story-telling flaws that keep it from being a great, or even really good movie. The emotional pay-offs and the ties to the original films at the end seem really forced, which I attribute to Lucas' sloppy screen-writing just like the other two prequels. Return of the Jedi may have been the weakest original film with a dull meandering middle section, but for me it's still ahead of Sith because it's got such an epic and emotional final act.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

But I still think Sith had some very serious story-telling flaws that keep it from being a great, or even really good movie. The emotional pay-offs and the ties to the original films at the end seem really forced, which I attribute to Lucas' sloppy screen-writing just like the other two prequels. Return of the Jedi may have been the weakest original film with a dull meandering middle section, but for me it's still ahead of Sith because it's got such an epic and emotional final act.

Sith isn't without it's flaws. Without some of the Clone Wars' backstory Anakin's motivation is somewhat baffling, Sideous reduces his character to a pawn too easily, and Padme's death is insulting to not only the audience, but her character as presented in I and II. Still, I think the momentous pace the film keeps up for it's last hour is pretty remarkable, and the Anakin/Obi-wan moments are memorable and insanely emotional. I think the Mustafar set-piece is about as huge and spectacular as Anakin's fight that leads to the Vader suit should be.

Jedi was my childhood favorite, but nowadays I cringe during it nearly as much as in I and II. The first half doesn't have a story, it's just the wrapping up of a plot point from V that leads to an iconic but entirely functionless action scene (Scarlacc pit) that results in another terribly undignified death (Boba Fett). The second half is a retread of IV, a lazy and nearly identical plot to take out the creatively titled "Death Star 2", while teddy bear stand ins apparently take out the Empirical armies best troops with sticks and rocks. What it has going for it is the utterly perfect Luke/Vader/Sideous bits, but I can't help but be emotionally drawn out of it every time we cross cut to those horrible Ewoks and the boring (even if a wonderful feat of VFX) Death Star 2 sequences with Lando. In contrast to Sith, I'm utterly invested without needing to think twice to the point of near tears every time I hear Obi-wan yell, "You were my brother Anakin!". During Jedi I need to do my best to forget about all the nonsense being intercut with the Luke/Vader sequences to become as emotionally engaged. That's actually one of the reasons I prefer the viewing order of IV, V, I, II, III, VI, so I can hold onto the emotional momentum and tragedy of III while watching VI.

[Zillamon51]

I've always thought that the prequels are more hated by hardcore fans than by casual viewers. Mainstream audiences seem to like them just fine; it's internet nerds that start frothing at the mouth over Jar-Jar and Anakin Ladystalker. Between that, and the passage of time, I don't think the prequels will have much of a dampening effect on TFA. The Holidays will. TFA will almost certainly have the biggest December opening ever, and perform well week after week into the new year, but beating the big summer opening records is unlikely.

[mars396]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

Hm... I'm not sure how to answer this without diving into all the leaks. Spoilers. You've been warned.

[Show spoiler] seriously. Click at your own risk.

[Show spoiler]its not a red herring, and he's not landos kid who grew up in cloud city. We already know a significant amount of the plot from leaks, toys, and more. He's absolutely force sensitive, and has the potential to be a Jedi. At the end, he gets his ass kicked by Kylo in a dual, and stays with Maz and Chewbacca, while Rey goes to train with Luke. He'll be a Jedi by the end of the trilogy, but not necessarily in 7 and 8. Maybe not even till the end of 9. Luke isn't even in this film until the last few minutes aside from a flashback and possible hologram appearance.

There's also more evidence to Kylo killing his father in 7. IE Han.

"I will only say about that that it is completely intentional that their last names aren't public record," Abrams told EW.

[Britnasty]

I'll be seeing this 2 days early!

A local "nerd pub" is doing an advance screening in 3D Ultrascreen Dolby Atmos and I got a ticket! So excited!!

[Zivouhr]

Lucas introducing Jar Jar Binks into Star Wars was likely his goal to add more humor to the series and try to balance the seriousness of the political debates, but for many fans, it's like adding a circus clown into the serious tone of Empire Strikes Back for example, during the scene where Luke is battling Vader on Cloud City. Jar Jar jumps in behind Darth Vader during that light saber scene on the high rise platform, and grabs a piece of fruit with his tongue just as Luke's hand is severed.

That example is an exaggeration, but probably not far from how many fans feel about the impact Jar Jar's goofy character affects the series, depending on the tone they imagine Star Wars should be. Empire Strikes Back having the most serious tone, next to Revenge of the Sith.

Jar Jar is only being who he was written and performed as and does have good intentions as annoying as many see him, but he might fit in better in a comedy series more than a Star Wars space drama. If he toned down his antics, he would be better received, as strange space aliens are expected in Star Wars.

On Topic, I can imagine BB8, R2D2 and C3PO will provide plenty of humor without going overboard in Star Wars VII, along with the style and energy of Han, Luke and Leia from the original films.

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by Terminated

The new Star Wars canon timeline...



http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/09...ars-canon.html

I like the First Order "66"

See what I did there?

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by mars396

"I will only say about that that it is completely intentional that their last names aren't public record," Abrams told EW.

Your point? Finn still isn't landos son.

[Forever Knight]

Yeah that timeline shit Disney pulled is lame. No way in hell Phantom Menace is the start of it all. Expanded Universe ftw.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

Yeah that timeline shit Disney pulled is lame. No way in hell Phantom Menace is the start of it all. Expanded Universe ftw.

LucasFilm rebranded the EU. The "shit pulled" was ordered by Kennedy, who also nixed Lucas' treatments and closed LucasArts. You guys blame Iger for everything LucasFilm does without realizing Kennedy is running that show.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Zillamon51

I've always thought that the prequels are more hated by hardcore fans than by casual viewers. Mainstream audiences seem to like them just fine; it's internet nerds that start frothing at the mouth over Jar-Jar and Anakin Ladystalker. Between that, and the passage of time, I don't think the prequels will have much of a dampening effect on TFA. The Holidays will. TFA will almost certainly have the biggest December opening ever, and perform well week after week into the new year, but beating the big summer opening records is unlikely.

Naah, many of the top grossing films throughout history opened in December, going all the way back to the 30's. The holidays won't dampen SW7 any more than they did Snow White, Titanic, and Avatar.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Terminated

The new Star Wars canon timeline...



http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/09...ars-canon.html

Originally Posted by DarkDune

I like the First Order "66"

See what I did there?

I cannot believe they're leaving out the Tartakovsky animated Clone Wars series from being cannon! It does not interfere with the CGI clone wars series whatsoever if you watch it in the right order! The timeline should be like this....

The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
The Clone Wars animated series: Season 1-Chapters 1-10 (Tartakovsky)
The Clone Wars animated series: Season 2-Chapters 11-20 (Tartakovsky)
The Clone Wars Animated series: Season 3-Chapters 21-24 (Tartakovsky)
The Clone Wars CGI Animated Movie
The Clone Wars CGI Series Seasons 1-6
The Clone Wars animated series: Season3 -Chapter 25 (Tartakovsky)
Revenge of the Sith

The Tartakovsky animated series is very important in the timeline! It introduces Asaaj Ventress! It shows Anakin graduating from being a Padawan to becoming a full-fledged Jedi! It shows C3P0 getting his gold coverings! It introduces General Grievous! The final chapter ENDS with the kidnapping of Palpatine and start of the space battle of Coruscant, which is what BEGINS Episode 3!! Why in hell would they omit that series?!?!?

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

LucasFilm rebranded the EU. The "shit pulled" was ordered by Kennedy, who also nixed Lucas' treatments and closed LucasArts. You guys blame Iger for everything LucasFilm does without realizing Kennedy is running that show.

The bottom line is.... DAWN OF THE JEDI is the beginning of Star Wars not The Phantom Menace.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

The bottom line is.... DAWN OF THE JEDI is the beginning of Star Wars not The Phantom Menace.

Never heard of it.

[Nada]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

LucasFilm rebranded the EU. The "shit pulled" was ordered by Kennedy, who also nixed Lucas' treatments and closed LucasArts. You guys blame Iger for everything LucasFilm does without realizing Kennedy is running that show.

Lucas' original storyline is still in play, though obviously it's been altered by Abrams, Kennedy, and Kasdan. I still can't believe they closed Lucasarts. They could have produced so many wonderful Star Wars games during this second resurgence.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

The bottom line is.... DAWN OF THE JEDI is the beginning of Star Wars not The Phantom Menace.

I've never even heard of that. Regardless, the bottom line is it isn't the beginning of star wars canon. It is no longer canon and will be replaced by other stories.

Doesn't mean you can't continue enjoying that story and other Legend stories, but they aren't canon anymore. Which is for the best. The old EU was a convoluted cluster**** that had grown like a cancer for decades, and continuing the films while weighed down with by that mess would have been a horrible idea. A clean slate was the best option. As of now the canon starts with TPM, but the past of the star wars universe won't always be a mystery.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Nada

Lucas' original storyline is still in play, though obviously it's been altered by Abrams, Kennedy, and Kasdan. I still can't believe they closed Lucasarts. They could have produced so many wonderful Star Wars games during this second resurgence.

No it's not. Lucas's original storyline was thrown out entirely. Lucas said this back in January:

Originally Posted by George Lucas

"The ones that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn't really want to do those. So they made up their own. So it's not the ones that I originally wrote [on screen in Star Wars: The Force Awakens]"

http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/disn...pisode-vii-182