News: displays and their technologies

[blupetros]

Review of the A95K if you can understand French. Tech specs from 36:00min. As far as I can make out, it hit 970 nits in Cinema mode. Using English translation is useless.

TEST : Téléviseur QD-OLED Sony A95K (Vidéo 4K Chapitrée) - YouTube

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by blupetros

Review of the A95K if you can understand French. Tech specs from 36:00min. As far as I can make out, it hit 970 nits in Cinema mode. Using English translation is useless.
TEST : Téléviseur QD-OLED Sony A95K (Vidéo 4K Chapitrée) - YouTube

As per the AVS thread, looks like Sony have gone way too conservative with A95K w.r. to brightness despite having heatsink and the panel being capable of more.

Already they appeared to have messed up the X95K (65/75) and if they get it wrong with the A95K they will lose quite a bit of potential consumers.

[nick4Knight]

Is it really conservative? All of the studios have begun capping their grades to specular highlights only being allowed to be under 1000. Going 'backwards' in terms of the specs that you find on 4K UHD titles. Especially Dolby Vision discs.

I wish that level of containment of HDR wasn't the norm, now. But this effectively means for 90% of content coming out of Hollywood system the 970 nit on an OLED will be incredibly capable to display the most challenging color luminance of all the discs we see now.

It probably can't play Mad Max: Fury Road and many other 4000+ nit grades. But that's an old way of doing HDR, seemingly.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by nick4Knight

Is it really conservative? All of the studios have begun capping their grades to specular highlights only being allowed to be under 1000. Going 'backwards' in terms of the specs that you find on 4K UHD titles. Especially Dolby Vision discs.

I wish that level of containment of HDR wasn't the norm, now. But this effectively means for 90% of content coming out of Hollywood system the 970 nit on an OLED will be incredibly capable to display the most challenging color luminance of all the discs we see now.

It probably can't play Mad Max: Fury Road and many other 4000+ nit grades. But that's an old way of doing HDR, seemingly.

This is something that should be stickied on top of every thread about those damn nits and % of BT.2020 coverage

THE CONTENT IS NOT THERE!

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

This is something that should be stickied on top of every thread about those damn nits and % of BT.2020 coverage

THE CONTENT IS NOT THERE!

Content is there but in small quantities. I am wondering if QD-OLEDS will bring some changes to colour grading practices followed by content creators.

[teddyballgame]

1000 nits seems about right after learning the s95b was brought down to a similar level after calibration.

Besides the nits, you're also getting:

• wider color gamut and volume
• very clean panel uniformity
• near black flashing artifacts solved
• almost perfect viewing angles, no off axis tints

It's not in the cards for me this year though. My next upgrade would need to be a 77"

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nick4Knight

Is it really conservative? All of the studios have begun capping their grades to specular highlights only being allowed to be under 1000. Going 'backwards' in terms of the specs that you find on 4K UHD titles. Especially Dolby Vision discs.

I wish that level of containment of HDR wasn't the norm, now. But this effectively means for 90% of content coming out of Hollywood system the 970 nit on an OLED will be incredibly capable to display the most challenging color luminance of all the discs we see now.

It probably can't play Mad Max: Fury Road and many other 4000+ nit grades. But that's an old way of doing HDR, seemingly.

All of the studios? That's a bold statement. Warners and Sony didn't get that memo, while Universal, Paramount and Disnee (inc extant Fox discs) have been hewing to 1000 nit from the start so this isn't some new phenom. At all.

But what does Dolby Vision have to do with it? Despite what the marketing bollox says it doesn't do more colour or nits than HDR10, so if even the almighty DV isn't blowing your skirt up for whatever movie that's because it's not a guarantee of balls-out HDR in itself, it never ever has been - it's there to serve what the content is mastered to.

If people aren't mastering that content to "pop" (ugh) then the squeaky wheels will just have to get on with it, just like with every new Atmos track not being mixed to sound like the world is caving in. As the novelty is wearing off filmmakers are realising that they don't have to push everything to the limit to make it a worthwhile use of whatever format.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by lgans316

As per the AVS thread, looks like Sony have gone way too conservative with A95K w.r. to brightness despite having heatsink and the panel being capable of more.

Already they appeared to have messed up the X95K (65/75) and if they get it wrong with the A95K they will lose quite a bit of potential consumers.

I actually appreciate Sony being a bit more conservative than the rest in how they drive their OLED panels, be it WRGB or QD. Would make me feel a tad more confident about the longevity of my TV if/when I get a Sony OLED.

[Robert Zohn]

Let's not forget that 2K SDR content is graded at 100 Nits. Having most 4K HDR content graded to reach up to 1,000 Nits, which is 10x the brighter than the peak luminance of SDR content with the pure black that OLED and even the premium MiniLED TVs is plenty of contrast and peak luminance to deliver excellent images. 4,000 nits or 10,000 nits is beyond what our human visual system wants to see.

We can't resolve the F stops (Dynamic tonal range) to see any more contrast then if the content was graded to 1,000 nits. All the higher peak luminance would do if it was not tone mapped to the display's more reasonable peak luminance capability. Peak luminance above 1,000 nits when viewed in low ambient light actually looks annoying and can even feel uncomfortable.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

I actually appreciate Sony being a bit more conservative than the rest in how they drive their OLED panels, be it WRGB or QD. Would make me feel a tad more confident about the longevity of my TV if/when I get a Sony OLED.

Well, the panel can easily be pushed and yet Sony remains conservative. I am sorry but all these will deter potential buyers. Not saying Sony must do a Samsung but the opportunity is there to push the panel and it shouldn't be missed. Even Samsung are giving 3 years burn-in warranty.

Every year we see folks complaining WOLED TVs only had incremental upgrades / not bright enough and yet there isn't much that Sony has done in the LCD TV space since ZD9 (yes they did produce 'Z' light cannons but at the expense of contrast and deep blacks). In fact, modern LCD TVs are morphing into OLEDs.

Some dual owners of ZD9 and Z9J say they prefer the Z9J but once again based on my interactions with them they watch SDR / play games. Not many are into HDR movies but somehow want the brightest display.

Look at the folks at AVS. 90% of them hung up with brightness. I do like brightness but these guys are obsessed. One guy is using his Z9J mainly for SDR when all he needs is 100-200 nits and yet brags his TV doesn't require that much tone mapping up to 4000 nits to justify his purchase lol.

Sony have already left their LCD TV line ups high and dry for many years. All we can hope is Sony fixing current X95K flaws via software update.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Content is there but in small quantities. I am wondering if QD-OLEDS will bring some changes to colour grading practices followed by content creators.

Good luck with that considering the majority of TV sold worldwide are well under $1000 on average...

QD-OLED is gonna be a niche within a niche.

Samsung is gonna move many millions of LCDs still and LG will keep going with WRGB Oled

As I said, content creators are following the DCI standards first, not theoretical home video standards...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Good luck with that considering the majority of TV sold worldwide are well under $1000 on average...

QD-OLED is gonna be a niche within a niche.

Samsung is gonna move many millions of LCDs still and LG will keep going with WRGB Oled

As I said, content creators are following the DCI standards first, not theoretical home video standards...

Am I wrong or were you like ultra-ultra-ultra-sceptical of HDR for a good long while there? Now you're like the ultimate spec-f*cker, it's quite the turnaround.

While I'm here though: is there a production monitor that actually does 100% of BT.2020?

[DTSBOY]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

While I'm here though: is there a production monitor that actually does 100% of BT.2020?

I thought Vincent Teoh had access to a Sony BVM-HX310 grading monitor? I understood that to be BT 2020 or was it 2100?

30,000 quid too. Or it was, god knows what it is now.

Christie Eclipse is apparently the finest projector you can buy currently. And at 400,000 quid it had bloody well better be.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DTSBOY

I thought Vincent Teoh had access to a Sony BVM-HX310 grading monitor? I understood that to be BT 2020 or was it 2100?

30,000 quid too. Or it was, god knows what it is now.

Christie Eclipse is apparently the finest projector you can buy currently. And at 400,000 quid it had bloody well better be.

Nope, the BVM can't show anything like full 2020: https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/broa...tors/bvm-hx310 It's got an out of gamut monitoring mode but can't actually show it.

And yes, projektors with laser thingamibobs are close to or are doing 100% of 2020 IIRC but that's why I specified "production monitor" above, because if mateyXDTV wants his specs maxed out TO THE MAX then he ain't getting a >1000 nit home video grade from something graded on one of those full 2020 PJs.

It's as if the answer is a little bit more complicated than simple spec-f*cking.

[DTSBOY]

Aye, it looks like even the most fancy pc monitors from Apple, Asus, Benq - and others can do about high 80 ish percent of the 2020 gamut. Still a couple years away from full 2020.

Looking at some test pics on that Christie and boy, do they look freaking cool - even on my lowly screen.

[lgans316]

Samsung S95B FM mode looks to be fixed post F/W update. Not sure if they fixed Game mode.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Good luck with that considering the majority of TV sold worldwide are well under $1000 on average...

QD-OLED is gonna be a niche within a niche.

Samsung is gonna move many millions of LCDs still and LG will keep going with WRGB Oled

As I said, content creators are following the DCI standards first, not theoretical home video standards...

QD-OLED niche? Seriously mate. Look at the pricing. It is nowhere near niche. I would say the 85Z9J / K or 97 OLED are niche because of the asking price.

Samsung Display will release 77 inches QD-OLED panels next year based on early reports.

Sony 65X95K looks like it is already dead on arrival. Owners complaining about heavy blooming in HDR.

LG seems to have gone a great job with their G2 this year. Panasonic will release 77LZ2000 with new EX panels this year. More developments announced around OLED tech. LCDs will be left in the dust at this rate.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

While I'm here though: is there a production monitor that actually does 100% of BT.2020?

On the theme of education -

None can, and “even if you can, maybe you shouldn’t” - timestamp ~ 21m54sec. - https://www.avsforum.com/threads/is-...#post-61682069,
i.e. observer metamerism concerns – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...sm#post1401605

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Am I wrong or were you like ultra-ultra-ultra-sceptical of HDR for a good long while there? Now you're like the ultimate spec-f*cker, it's quite the turnaround.

While I'm here though: is there a production monitor that actually does 100% of BT.2020?

What are you talking about?

I'm actually talking AGAINST spec wars...

"WOW QD-OLED has 90% BT.2020 coverage!!"

Content with BT.2020 primaries: 1% of the total

Who cares??

[Geoff D]

Ah, right. The way you keep banging on about specs not being met made me think you had something else going on. I don't really see the point in you continually pointing it out because hardware manufacturers have always always ALWAYS relied on the sizzle to sell the steak. I was selling TVs with quantum dot backlights almost 10 years ago despite everything still being in 709, you know?

And yet aside from the marketing guff these things *are* actually useful to have in terms of HDR. Will every title need >1000 nits and >P3 space? No, but I'd say that those benchmarks are the minimum for a display for it to be anything like competent at showing HDR in the first place, otherwise you're at the mercy of the tone mapping trying to wrangle it and as everyone does it differently (said the bishop to the actress) you can have great displays hobbled by piss-poor mapping. And it's always nice to have more in the tank should there be any content that stretches further than those levels, like with many >1000-nit Warners and Sony UHDs as mentioned.

Colour in itself is harder to quantify but let's not ignore colour volume, for me that's a big component of what sets HDR apart from SDR and with WRGB OLED that volume just isn't there at higher brightness levels. So while having more colour in the display doesn't necessarily mean the content can show it, it's because it's being overdriven that people might actually get to see HDR's wide colour volume as it was meant to be seen.