3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic TC-P50ST30 May 5th 2011 CNET review

“As usual we found the 48Hz mode flickered too much to be watchable.”

Panasonic TC-P42ST30 42 inches (No 96Hz setting)

Panasonic TC-P46ST30 46 inches (No 96Hz setting)

Panasonic TC-P50ST30 50 inches (No 96Hz setting)

Panasonic TC-P55ST30 55 inches (No 96Hz setting)

Panasonic TC-P60ST30 60 inches (No 96Hz setting)

Panasonic TC-P65ST30 65 inches (No 96Hz setting)

Just like the 2011 Panasonic GT series according to CNET the 2011 Panasonic ST series also flickers too much to be watchable when using the so called Cinema quality 48Hz mode for standard 2-D 1080p/24 material. Hopefully in 2012 all new Panasonic plasma models will offer 96Hz for 2-D 1080p/24 material. Also it would be ideal if Panasonic offered a Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz mode for 3-D material on future 3-D plasmas.

To watch 2-D 1080p/24 Blu-rays at 96Hz on a 2011 Panasonic plasma, consumers are forced to purchase the top of the line VT30 series. According to LG, all LG 2011 plasma models offer flicker free 2-D Blu-ray viewing at 72Hz. One can purchase a 50 inch 1080P 72Hz LG plasma from Amazon for only $799.99. Since LG is offering flicker free 72Hz viewing on ever 2011 plasma screen in production than hopefully Panasonic would also start offering a 96Hz flicker free viewing mode on their entire 2012 plasma line.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/4662912-post980.html


Quotes from CNET on the Panasonic ST30 series:

“You'll need to input a 1080p/24 source to activate the 24p mode at 48Hz, but due to the flickering we don't recommend it.”

“As usual we found the 48Hz mode flickered too much to be watchable.”

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...ml?tag=rvwBody

[HDTV1080P]

The VIZIO XVT3D650SV will receive a firmware update in the future to bypass the 3:2 pulldown issue when 2-D 1080p/24 source material is used

Some of the VIZIO 120Hz LCD displays and VIZIO 240Hz backlight effect LCD displays have a history of displaying 1080P/24 material with 3:2 pulldown judder added before the frames are repeated. In the movie theater film projectors never use 60Hz with 3:2 pulldown. The $3,700 VIZIO XVT3D650SV LCD display currently uses 3:2 pulldown for 24fps material. The good news according to the June 2011 Home Theater magazine is that VIZIO is going to issue a firmware update to offer true 5:5 pulldown mode for 2-D 1080P/24 material. Hopefully some other VIZIO 120Hz and 240Hz backlight effect models will also be getting software updates to eliminate the 3:2 pulldown process when watching a 1080p/24 Blu-ray or Direct TV movies with 1080P/24. It is unknown if VIZIO will offer firmware updates for older LCD models.


What is disappointing is that the 120Hz VIZIO XVT3D650SV will display 3-D frame packed Blu-ray material at 60Hz for each eye. So each eye will see 3:2 pulldown just like other brands of 3-D flat panel screens. Then on top of that issue the passive glasses on the VIZIO will only offer 1920 X 540 for each eye when watching a frame packed Blu-ray disc instead of true 1080P for each eye. If a top/bottom 3D broadcast, cable, or satellite signal is used then the passive 3-D VIZIO TV will provide only 1920 X 270 resolution. If side by side broadcast, cable, or satellite signal is used then the VIZIO will offer only a 960 X 540 resolution.

The Home Theater magazine reviewer noticed a decrease in resolution quality when watching 3-D movies on the VIZIO. One has to seat 10 feet or more from the screen or they will see black horizontal lines when watching 3-D material on the VIZIO. In the 2-D full 1080P mode this is not an issue.

It might be several years before a 3-D flat panel is made that offers true 1080P resolution at 144Hz or 192Hz with active or passive glasses.

So far only the Runco D-73d and Titan 3-D projectors offer Cinema quality frame rates with 1080P for each eye using passive glasses.

The following are select quotes from the June 2011 Home Theater magazine review on the VIZIO XVT3D650SV (Review located on pages 21-25)

“The set does not currently display 24-frame-per-second material directly (or at a direct multiple of 24 fps). Instead, it first converts it to 60 Hz by adding 3:2 pulldown. According to VIZIO, a firmware update is coming that will eliminate this conversion by providing 5:5 pulldown for 24-fps sources.”

“The VIZIO interpolates the extra frames required to bring the source’s frame rate up 120 Hz when Smooth Motion is on; it simply repeats frames when it’s off.”

http://www.hometheater.com/content/v...cd-hdtv-page-2

[HDTV1080P]

A Closer Look at Active vs Passive 3D Flat Panels

All the current 3-D flat panel displays that use passive glasses only offer 540 lines of vertical resolution for each eye instead of 1080P for each eye when a frame packed Blu-ray is used as source material. In the future 3-D flat panels with passive glasses most likely one day will offer true 1080P quality for both eyes. Until that day happens active glasses offer a better 3-D experience in terms of resolution detail. The 3-D projectors that use passive glasses offer true 1080P for each eye (see the 3-D list for details at the start of this thread)

The following are select quotes from the Ultimate AV mag.com article

“Kane also emphasized that a good 3D display must first be a good 2D display—after all, a 3D image is nothing more than two 2D images, so the display must exhibit good 2D performance if it has any hope of doing 3D well. This is another reason to use 3D-flat test patterns to evaluate a 3D display's performance.”

“Makers of such sets claim that, while each eye sees only 540 lines, the brain combines the two images into one, resulting in a total of 1080 lines. However, Kane disputes this, saying that the two images must be kept completely isolated from each other or we would see no 3D effect at all, and if each eye sees 540 lines, that's the total effective resolution.”

“In addition, this is why thin, black horizontal lines are visible when viewing an FPR-based 3D flat panel within a certain distance from the screen. And this proves that the brain does not completely combine the two images into one—if it did, the black lines wouldn't be visible at any distance.”

Click here to read the complete article at the Ultimate AV mag.com website

[HDTV1080P]

In late 2012 or 2013 Samsung 55 inch RealD 3-D flat panel screens might be released

Samsung has just completed a license agreement with RealD to offer LCD screens with the active shutter technology built in the display. With this new technology low cost RealD passive glasses can be used to view a frame packed 3-D Blu-ray with full 1080P resolution for each eye. The technology is not suppose to compromise the 2-D image quality at all.

In early 2012 Samsung 3-D LCD computer monitors in the sizes of 27 inches and 23 inches are scheduled to be released (could always be delayed). Some 3-D Notebook computers might also be released. Possible sometime in late 2012 or sometime in 2013 some of the 55 inch Samsung LCD screens will most likely start using RealD 3-D technology. Hopefully in the future RealD will be used in Samsung plasma screens also, but for now only LCD screens are scheduled to receive the RealD technology.

What is unclear is if 144Hz RealD Cinema quality frame rates will be used.

It would be ideal for a 3-D flat panel LCD screen or 3-D flat panel plasma screen to offer flicker free 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D Cinema quality frame rates with no 3:2 pulldown issues. There is a possibility that the first Samsung 3-D displays with passive glasses might use 120Hz with 60Hz 3:2 pulldown judder for each eye. The RealD technology being used might only apply to the full resolution passive glasses technology and might not include the Cinema quality frame rates.

Consumers will need to wait for a professional review in late 2012 or sometime in 2013 to see how good this technology really is. Like any new technology things can get delayed a few years before the release occurs.

Quote
“RealD and Samsung Electronics LCD Business have completed a license agreement to make available to consumer electronics manufacturers panels featuring a new jointly developed 3D display technology, which delivers full resolution 3D images to each eye utilizing RealD 3D cinema glasses. Introduced in January 2011 at CES, panels are expected to be available for PC monitors in 23-inch and 27-inch sizes by early 2012 and for TVs in 55-inch size after the commercialization of PC monitors.”

http://www.cable360.net/ct/tools/premises/RealD-Samsung-Partner-for-Active-Shutter-on-3D-Display-Panels_46394.html

[HDTV1080P]

Sim2 makes the claim that they were the first consumer electronics company to offer 144Hz 3-D Projectors (Where is the proof?)

In an a article released today May 17th 2011 by Twice (This Week in Consumer Electronics), SIM2 makes the claim that they were the first consumer electronics company to offer Triple Flash 3D Technology.

Quote

“Sim2 is the first consumer electronics company to make available Triple Flash 3D Technology, which Fabiano calls "the best way to watch 3D." “
http://www.twice.com/article/468386-Sim2_Relies_On_Innovation_To_Stand_Alone.php

If that statement by SIM2 is true where is the evidence that they are the first consumer electronics manufactory to offer Triple Flash 3D Technology? Perhaps in Italy and the UK SIM2 might have been the first to offer the 144Hz technology but in the United States the first known article talking about 144Hz consumer 3-D projectors appeared in the April 22nd 2010 Twice article. Digital Projection Titan 3-D Projector line was the first consumer products to offer 144Hz in the United States and possibility other areas of the world like the United Kingdom.

Click here for the April 22 2010 Twice article that is evidence that in the United States Digital Projection was the first to offer 144fps 3-D projectors

According to projector central’s website SIM2 did not start shipping the C3X Lumis 3D SOLO Projector in the United States until March of 2011.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sim2-Grand_Cinema_C3X_Lumis_3D-SOLO.htm

So I will continue to say that Digital Projection is the first consumer company that offered 144fps Triple flash technology unless someone can show me evidence that that statement is wrong.

[HDTV1080P]

SIM2 releases 3 Front Projectors that offer Cinema quality 3-D frame rates

SIM2 has available in the United States market 3 Front Projectors that offer Cinema quality 3-D frame rates. Two of the SIM2 3-chip DLP projectors offer 144fps triple flash technology. One of the SIM2 models offers 48Hz (native 24Hz for each eye) in 3-D mode using a dual 3-Chip DLP design. One negative about these 3 Front Projectors is that according to the US product spec sheets they all use HDMI 1.3 inputs. Since these projectors do not need to carry any audio they are capable of offering full 3-D quality from the Blu-ray format without using HDMI 1.4 or HDMI 1.4a. This is a perfect example of HDMI 1.3 being able to handle 3-D just fine when no audio is being carried. The Sony PS3 also only uses HDMI 1.3 for 3-D but with reduced audio quality in 3-D mode. Since these 3 SIM2 projectors cost between $50,000-$80,000 it would have been ideal for marketing purposes to have the HDMI 1.4a label on the spec sheets and the HDMI 1.4a technology included on the projectors.

HDMI 1.3 spec sheet reference links

SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D dual (A Dolby 3-D passive IMAX type system)

SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D-SOLO (A Xpand 144fps active system)

Information about the SIM2 144fps 3-D models

In March of 2011 SIM2 started shipping the $50,000 C3X Lumis 3D Solo and the $55,000 C3X Lumis 3D Solo HC Front Projectors.Both projectors will accept a frame packed Blu-ray 3-D source and flash it on the screen at 144fps just like the Xpand active shutter glass technology in movie theaters.

Quote from SIM2 email communication:

“Our LUMIS 3D SOLO/HC projectors have triple flash 144Hz technology.”

The following are quotes from the Twice article:

“Sim2 is the first consumer electronics company to make available Triple Flash 3D Technology, which Fabiano calls "the best way to watch 3D."

“The technology flashes images at a rate of three times per eye instead of the standard two times per eye to eliminate any perceived flicker in the image.”


"The Solo 3D models also employ PureMotion 3D technology that is said to eliminate judder from fast-moving action. The Lumis Solo models ship with four pairs of Xpand 3D active-shutter glasses."


“So far, it has unveiled the C3X Lumis 3D Solo ($50,000 suggested retail) and the Lumis 3D Solo HC ($55,000)…”

http://www.twice.com/article/468386-Sim2_Relies_On_Innovation_To_Stand_Alone.php

Information about the SIM2 48fps model (24fps for each eye)

The SIM2 Lumis 3D Duo model according to projector central started shipping in the United States back on September 2009.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sim2-Grand_Cinema_C3X_Lumis_3D.htm

The C3X LUMIS 3D Dual system costs $79,999 plus there are optional lens available(http://www.beststuff.com/blog/2010/06/11/sim2-unveils-new-high-end-home-cinema-projectors.html ).

The system is based on the Dolby 3D Infitec system and operates similar to an IMAX system. In the Dolby 3D Infitec system no special silver screen is needed. The dual projector design is equipped with an Interference filter and passive glasses using the Infitec filters are used. In the theater most Dolby 3D projectors use a single projector design at 144fps, but the advantage of the SIM2 C3X LUMIS dual 3-chip DLP design is that it operates at a native 24fps for each eye similar to an IMAX system.

Quote from SIM2 email communication:

“Our LUMIS 3D DUO dual-projection system will accept all current 3D standards, and as a passive system, does not suffer any ‘flicker’.”

Quote from product spec sheet:

“...allowing the visualization of frequencies preferred by professionals such as 24,98 or 24,48hz.”
http://www.sim2usa.com/home/us/content/c3x-lumis-3d-0

quote from Twice:

“They join in the line the Lumis 3D Duo, which was shown at the 2010 CEDIA Expo. That system essentially pairs and synchronizes two Lumis 1080p projectors using Infitec passive glasses technology.”

http://www.twice.com/article/468386-Sim2_Relies_On_Innovation_To_Stand_Alone.php

[HDTV1080P]

SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D Solo and C3X Lumis 3D Solo HC 144fps Front Projectors

** Flicker free 3-D performance using Cinema quality XpanD active shutter glasses at 144fps **

** Full 1080P quality for each eye **

** No special silver screen needed, uses standard white screens **

Both the SIM2 C3X Lumis Solo and SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D HC models use the high quality triple flash technology that is found in movie theaters. Both SIM2 models offer a 3-chip DLP projector design that will flash 2-D 1080p/24 source material on the screen at 48Hz and a Blu-ray 3-D frame packed 3-D source on the screen at 144fps (72fps for each eye). Both SIM2 projectors use the professional XpanD active shutter glass system that is located in theaters around the world. Triple flash technology on DLP projectors eliminates 3:2 pulldown and flicker issues. Also 144fps triple flash technology eliminates most the complaints about vision fatigue, ghosting, and other 3-D vision quality problems are reduced. Triple flash technology on a 1080P Front Projector from SIM2 is almost as good as a professional 2K DLP projector located in the movie theaters that are based on the XpandD active shutter glass system. A standard white screen can be used with active shutter glass 3-D systems from SIM2.

Quote from SIM2 email communication:

“Our LUMIS 3D SOLO/HC projectors have triple flash 144Hz technology.”

The following are quotes from the Twice article:

“Sim2 is the first consumer electronics company to make available Triple Flash 3D Technology, which Fabiano calls "the best way to watch 3D."

“The technology flashes images at a rate of three times per eye instead of the standard two times per eye to eliminate any perceived flicker in the image.”

"The Solo 3D models also employ PureMotion 3D technology that is said to eliminate judder from fast-moving action. The Lumis Solo models ship with four pairs of Xpand 3D active-shutter glasses."

“So far, it has unveiled the C3X Lumis 3D Solo ($50,000 suggested retail) and the Lumis 3D Solo HC ($55,000)…”

http://www.twice.com/article/468386-Sim2_Relies_On_Innovation_To_Stand_Alone.php

[HDTV1080P]

The state of the art SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D Dual Projector

** Uses two 3-chip DLP Full 1080P Projectors to deliver 1080P quality to each eye with passive glasses **

** First consumer 1080P 3-D Projector system that uses the Dolby 3D Infitec passive glasses technology **

1080P/24 material is flashed on the screen at 24Hz with no flicker (no black time). A 48Hz 3-D signal is displayed at the same time (One projector displays left eye 24fps image and the other projector displays right eye 24fps image at the same time)

** No special silver screen needed, uses standard white screens with Dolby 3D passive glasses **

The system is based on the Dolby 3D Infitec system and operates similar to an IMAX system. In the Dolby 3D Infitec system no special silver screen is needed. The dual projector design is equipped with an Interference filter and passive glasses using the Infitec filters are used. In the theater most Dolby 3D projectors use a single projector design at 144fps, but the advantage of the SIM2 C3X LUMIS dual 3-chip DLP design is that it operates at a native 24fps for each eye similar to an IMAX system. The dual 3-chip DLP Projector design offers high quality very bright light output that is similar to an IMAX design. System uses a more affordable and longer life UHP lamps. The SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D Dual Projector system costs $79,999 with optional lens available.

http://www.sim2usa.com/home/us/content/c3x-lumis-3d-0

Product Sheet

Quote from SIM2 email communication:

“Our LUMIS 3D DUO dual-projection system will accept all current 3D standards, and as a passive system, does not suffer any ‘flicker’.”

Quote from product spec sheet:

“...allowing the visualization of frequencies preferred by professionals such as 24,98 or 24,48hz.”
http://www.sim2usa.com/home/us/content/c3x-lumis-3d-0

quote from Twice:

“They join in the line the Lumis 3D Duo, which was shown at the 2010 CEDIA Expo. That system essentially pairs and synchronizes two Lumis 1080p projectors using Infitec passive glasses technology.”

http://www.twice.com/article/468386-Sim2_Relies_On_Innovation_To_Stand_Alone.php

[HDTV1080P]

The list has been updated with the following 3 SIM2 3-D Front Projectors. Now there is a total of 11 3-D Front Projectors on the list.


SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D Dual 1080p (48Hz for 3-D 48Hz sources, 24Hz for 2-D 24Hz sources)

SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D Solo HC 1080p (144Hz for 3-D 48Hz sources, 48Hz for 2-D 24Hz sources)

SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D Solo 1080p (144Hz for 3-D 48Hz sources, 48Hz for 2-D 24Hz sources)

[thepla]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Since your receiver is not HDMI 1.4a or HDMI 1.4 then yes you need to connect one HDMI output from the Blu-ray player to the TV for video and the other HDMI audio output to the surround sound receiver.

If one wanted to use their A/V receiver as a video switcher for Blu-ray 3-D then one needs to own a A/V receiver with HDMI 1.4 or later. If one wants to use their A/V receiver as a video switcher with broadcast, satellite, and cable 3-D sources then HDMI 1.4a is needed.

So unless you purchase a new HDMI 1.4a receiver you are not going to be able to run your HDMI output on the Cable Box to the older A/V receiver. You will need to connect the cable box up to the Mitsubishi adapter and then the adapter connects directly to the TV. Some people with Mitsubishi TV’s own three 3D adapters for three HDMI inputs. One adapter for a Blu-ray player that does not offer checkerboard output, second adapter is for a cable box that offers 3-D, the third adapter is for a video game system with 3-D output. It sounds like your setup is only going to need only one adapter.

People that own the older 3-D ready Mitsubishi displays are able to use one adapter for multiply devices with a HDMI 1.4a receiver in theory if they place the adapter on the A/V receivers HDMI 1.4 output.

The HDMI 1.4a receiver requirements for all existing 3-D formats is only a requirement 99% of the time. There is a possibility that maybe a Playstation 3 with HDMI 1.3 might be able to pass the 3-D signal threw an older HDMI 1.3 receiver that offers passive HDMI switching instead of active switching. Also a HDMI 1.3 cable box or satellite receiver that outputs a 3-D signal might allow some rare brands and models of HDMI 1.3 A/V receivers to pass the 3-D signal if the HDMI switching is passive instead of active. In generally 99% of the time you are going to need a HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver to support all the 3-D formats from Blu-ray and broadcast sources. You can always try using your older receiver but it most likely is not going to work at all when it sees the 3-D signal.

I still do not have the BDT-310; ordered from Proadvantage and on backorder.

I am going to install emitter into my media room and can easily connect emitter to back of TV (65837) and drill a hole above TV for emitter. It seems from your answer I can omit the starter kit box. I will remove my current Blu-Ray and put in BDT-310 when it arrives putting one HDMI into my A/V and one into TV.. Does it matter which HDMI on TV I use?

Also If I wanted to hookup Comcast into 3D could I connect HDMI from Comcast into starter kit adapter box and than another HDMI cable into open HDMI on TV? I have four and only one is being used so after this little work I would be using three. Lets say this is logical how do I connect Comcast box to A/V for surround Sound. Maybe an optical cable?

In theory would this work? One more stupid question Without adapter box how does emitter know to be turned on and off? If I get the above to work do I need to turn on adapter box all the time or just when using 3D from Comcast?

Thanks,
thepla

[gekke henkie]

Quote: "The VW90ES has a function labeled Film Projection, designed to make film look more film-like by reducing the effects of judder. However, it has some side-effects. Engaging Film Projection when using 1080p/24 makes the image appear to flicker, as if a shutter is opening and closing rapidly. It also causes a noticeable reduction in brightness. Contrast and depth are slightly increased, but the flickering effect can be very distracting."

Source: http://www.projectorcentral.com/sony...ge=Limitations

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by thepla

I still do not have the BDT-310; ordered from Proadvantage and on backorder.

I am going to install emitter into my media room and can easily connect emitter to back of TV (65837) and drill a hole above TV for emitter. It seems from your answer I can omit the starter kit box. I will remove my current Blu-Ray and put in BDT-310 when it arrives putting one HDMI into my A/V and one into TV.. Does it matter which HDMI on TV I use?

Also If I wanted to hookup Comcast into 3D could I connect HDMI from Comcast into starter kit adapter box and than another HDMI cable into open HDMI on TV? I have four and only one is being used so after this little work I would be using three. Lets say this is logical how do I connect Comcast box to A/V for surround Sound. Maybe an optical cable?

In theory would this work? One more stupid question Without adapter box how does emitter know to be turned on and off? If I get the above to work do I need to turn on adapter box all the time or just when using 3D from Comcast?

Thanks,
thepla

I am Sorry for the delay in answering your question, I normally check this thread every 24 hours. My posts are all volunteer work and for the last month I have been very busy working on other projects and did not have the time to check this thread. I plan on checking this thread at least once every 24 hours once again now.

Any HDMI input will work on the display for 3-D and 2-D with the proper equipment connected. Panasonic Blu-ray players require no 3-D adapter if used with no other 3-D source connected to the display at the same time.


For Comcast the 3-D adapter is needed for your display. You could use any of the 4 HDMI inputs on the display. One HDMI for the Blu-ray player and one for the Comcast cable box. In the future if you get an A/V receiver with HDMI 1.4a video switching then you can connect everything to the receiver. With an older A/V receiver that is non HDMI 1.4a like HDMI 1.4 then a 3-D cable box cannot be used for viewing 3-D channels. Since Motorola and Scientific Atlanta digital cable boxes only have one HDMI output then you will either need to purchase an expensive HDMI splitter or use the optical cable. The sound quality over HDMI and optical cable is exactly the same for satellite and cable TV. Satellite and Cable TV does not offer the advanced audio formats like DTS-HD Master audio, Dolby True HD, and PCM. Optical and coaxial digital outputs can handle 5.1 Dolby Digital perfectly fine. No need to spend around $400+ on a HDMI splitter which costs as much as a lower-end 3-D A/V receiver.

One important thing I just noticed about the emitter. The IR emitter can be connected directly to the display as long as you are only using a Blu-ray player with checkerboard output (Like the Panasonic 3-D models). Now if the Comcast cable box had a checkerboard output mode you would not need a 3-D adapter. It is my understanding that Comcast does not offer a checkerboard output mode so you will need to use the 3-D adapter. There appears to be an emitter issue when using two 3-D devices without 2 adapters. This entire issue is very complicated. If you want to use both a 3-D Blu-ray player and a 3-D cable box then you will need two adapter boxes for 3-D. The reason for this is that the IR emitter needs to be run in series with both adapter boxes.

Take a look at Figure 3 http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/3D.html#need .
The IR emitter in the back of the display works fine as long as you only plan on using the Blu-ray player for your 3-D sources. But as soon as you connect the 3-D adapter box for the cable box the IR emitter needs to be moved to the IR jack on the 3-D adapter box. Which means you will need a dedicated adapter box for the Blu-ray player just to use the IR emitter. Take a look at the diagram link, it has them running the IR emitter in series so each adapter box gets an IR signal.


Too bad you do not own the 738 or 838 series Mitsubishi’s, back on November 16th 2010 they came out with a software update that allows those models of displays to receive all HDMI 1.4a mandatory 3D formats without any 3-D adapters needed.
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/3Dupgrade.html

If you get a HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver then you only need one adapter for everything. See figure 4. The advantage of using the 3-D adapter is that it has a auto mode that switches back and forth between 2-D and 3-D depending on the source material. Without the adapter you have to turn 3-D on and off in the TV menu every time you switch between a 3-D and 2-D source.


For Figure one: "In this connection you will need to turn on the 3D mode in the TV when you are watching a 3D signal and turn the mode off again when you are watching a normal 2D signal"




Figure 4 is the best way to go but it would require a new A/V receiver that is HDMI 1.4A. HDMI 1.4 is not compatible with broadcast 3-D. You could sell your old A/V receiver on EBAY.

[HDTV1080P]

It would be so much more easier to use one 3-D adapter and use you’re A/V receiver for video switching. The 3-D adapter would automatically switch between 2-D and 3-D with no need to manually make a menu selection in the display.

A low cost option is to purchase the Panasonic DMP-BDT110 Blu-ray player from Amazon for $107.49 with free shipping.

Then purchase the Denon AVR-391 5.1 HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver for $199.88. Or if you need 7.1 channels with multi-zone purchase the Denon AVR-1611 for $284.88.

Note: The above Amazon prices can sometimes change +/- a few dollars daily.

I like the Pioneer Elite A/V receivers also but they are more expensive. The above receivers are lower end HDMI 1.4a receivers. Denon also makes medium and high-end A/V receivers.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by gekke henkie

Quote: "The VW90ES has a function labeled Film Projection, designed to make film look more film-like by reducing the effects of judder. However, it has some side-effects. Engaging Film Projection when using 1080p/24 makes the image appear to flicker, as if a shutter is opening and closing rapidly. It also causes a noticeable reduction in brightness. Contrast and depth are slightly increased, but the flickering effect can be very distracting."

Source: http://www.projectorcentral.com/sony...ge=Limitations

Thanks for the link on the Sony VPL-VW90ES 3-D projector. It is my understanding that this projector is the best consumer projector that Sony has made in terms of 2-D picture quality so far. The problem is that many single projector 3-D models like the current Sony models are very dark with a major loss of brightness in 3-D mode, plus the projector most likely is only 60HZ for each eye in 3-D mode (Still waiting for the official word on 3-D refresh rate for the Sony’s).

When motionflow is turned off and a 2-D 1080p/24 signal is received, it is my understating that the Sony VPL-VW90ES properly offers a flicker free presentation at 192Hz while maintaining the Cinema quality frame rate. 60Hz video sources are refreshed at 240Hz.

The special motion option is what most likely was causing the flicker issue with that $10,000 Sony projector. Motionflow has two separate processes(Film Projection and Motion Enhancer). The film Projection mode in mode 1 adds black frames and mode 2 alternates frames with dark and light gamma curves. If the motion features are turned off then the Sony projector should offer a flicker free performance at 192HZ in 2-D mode.

What worries me is that this Sony projector when in 3-D mode might automatically engage Film Projection mode, which could cause the image to flicker. I do not know enough about this projector to know for sure how the 3-D mode works .

Here is a link to the Home Theater magazine review on this projector.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/4618792-post959.html

The local Cinema 3-D is 2K quality while home 3-D is slightly lower quality at 1080P. Currently the only way to get 3-D at good brightness levels and flicker free Cinema quality frame rate levels is to pick one of the 11 models of 3-D projectors on the list. At a price between $50,000-$85,000+ that is more money than the average consumer is willing to spend. About 1% of the people looking for 3-D projectors will consider spending that kind of money for a projector. Plus on top of that price a $20,000-$30,000+ audio system with a dedicated dark home theater room would be needed. Someone that spends $85,000+ on a projector is sure not going to get a surround system for under $10,000. Plus the home theater room itself might cost $100,000+ depending on how fancy it is.

I am hoping that in the next few years that some lower cost under $20,000 3-D projectors will make the list. It would be ideal to see some flat screens use the 144fps or 192fps frame rate for 3-D one day also. When high quality flat screens reach 85-100+ inches at a price of under $20,000 then the demand for Front Projectors will be less. The 300+ inch Front Projectors would be a niche market.

[HDTV1080P]

There are still no 3-D flat panel screens on the market that offer Cinema quality 3-D frame rates

I have been keeping up with all the latest professional reviews on flat screens and projectors from several different publications. In order to save myself several hours I have not posted a review summary of the many 3-D displays that do not offer Cinema quality 3-D frame rates.

It might be 2-3 years before a manufactory makes a flat panel screen with 144fps, 192fps or higher multiplies of 48 (Worst case scenario consumers might get stuck with 60Hz for each eye as a cost cutting measure when they watch 3-D movies). Right now instead of using theater quality triple flash technology for flat panels, companies are either converting the frame packed Blu-ray 3-D image to 60Hz for each eye or offering 48fps for each eye with the potential for flicker problems. The 144fps (72Hz for each eye) would be ideal for flat screen plasma’s when in 3-D mode. Also the current LCD screens are inserting black frames in between real frames so that the 240Hz displays become 60Hz for each eye in 3-D mode. Then to make matters worse the existing passive glasses technology for flat screens reduces the true HD quality 1080P 3-D image to SD quality 540P for each eye. There is a lot of wow factor with 3-D and marketing buzz going on this year to try and get consumers interested in 3-D. The 3-D experience is ideal on large screens like 80 inches and above. The front projector market could really take off if 3-D becomes popular (A 80 to 300 inch size screen would give a very good 3-D effect. Of course for a 300 inch screen the lamp or lamps would need to be extremely bright).

I like good quality 3-D like one finds in an IMAX theater. 3-D can look really good at home with the proper equipment. But right now the first generation 3-D projectors for the home that offer Cinema quality frame rates cost $50,000-$85,000+. Prices will most likely come down as technology improves and 3-D projectors are produced in large quantities.

For the average consumer the best quality 3-D at the cheapest price will be to just go purchase a movie ticket at ones local IMAX 3-D theater or other 3-D theater.

[HDTV1080P]

The amazing JVC DLA-RS60U Projector is reference quality for 2-D movie watching

First the negative regarding 3-D: This $11,995 JVC Front Projector does not offer triple flash (144fps) or quad flash (192fps) technology for Blu-ray frame packed 3-D sources. Instead it has a low refresh rate of (96fps) which is equal to 48Hz for each eye. 3-D Digital Projectors in the movie theater either use native 24fps for each eye with no black time or they will triple flash the image at 144fps (72fps each eye) to offer a flicker free performance. Research was done in the early days of 3-D Cinema in the movie theaters and it was discovered that 50% of the population sees a flicker when 3-D is shown at 96Hz. So that is why 100% of the time triple flash technology in theaters is used instead of double flashing the 48fps 3-D source. Also it’s been reported that 3-D images also looks better at 144fps compared to 96fps.

There also was a review that mentioned that the JVC DLA-X3 at 96Hz in 3-D mode had a noticeable flicker. https://forum.blu-ray.com/4564743-post954.html

Maybe the second generation of JVC 3-D projectors in 2012 might use triple flash technology. If JVC made a higher end brighter projector for $20,000-$30,000 with triple flash technology it might sell very well. Digital Projection’s Titan Reference projector costs $85,000. If a JVC projector was made for $30,000 that offered some of the features of the Titan it would be a bargain at almost 3 times cheaper price.

** I am hoping that the 2012 models of 3-D JVC projectors will use either 144fps (72fps for each eye) or 192fps (96fps for each eye) for 3-D mode. **

** This JVC DLA-RS60U is the new reference quality projector for 2-D image quality **

For those that mainly care about 2-D viewing then the JVC DLA-RS60U is the best of the best. The 2-D image quality of the JVC DLA-RS60U will properly display 1080p/24 2-D signals at 96Hz with extreme record breaking black levels. Discontinued High-end Front Projectors that use 9 inch CRT’s still offer a little bit better black levels and contrast ratios then the DLA-RS60U, but the difference is so small that it is hardly noticeable. What amazed me is that the JVC DLA-RS60U has such a good picture quality that Widescreen Review magazine claims the JVC has an overall better picture quality than even the best Runco and Sony 9 inch CRT projectors made. The black-level perception is so close to the quality of a CRT projector, plus the image smoothness and resolution beats a CRT projector. Clearly in a couple of more generations the JVC projectors might even match or beat the black levels of a high-end 9 inch CRT projector, right now the black levels are so close that the average human eye cannot really see much of a difference. Some of the 9 inch CRT projectors use to cost $100,000+. For a $12,000 JVC projector to beat the overall image quality of CRT that is amazing.

The following is a Quote from page 62 of the May/June 2011 Widescreen Review magazine (Full review on pages 16,18,19,20,22,23,24, and 25):

“I have developed a fondness for the new RS60 Direct Drive Image Light Amplifier technology for delivering stunning inky blacks and accurate color. This projector rivals our previous reference Sony and Runco nine-inch-tube-CRT projectors in black-level perception, image smoothness, and resolution.”

[HDTV1080P]

The Samsung PND8000 series plasma’s have picture quality issues in 96Hz mode for 2-D material

** The 96Hz setting is suppose to improve the picture quality and not reduce the quality of the image **

According to CNET when the Samsung CinemaSmooth feature is turned on the Samsung PND8000 series will switch from 60Hz to 96Hz when a standard 2-D 1080P/24 signal is received. The problem with the 96Hz feature on the Samsung plasmas according to CNET is that it reduces the picture quality. The black levels have a relatively large loss in 96Hz mode with a lower quality shadow detail.

Pioneer is still King in terms of flat panel picture quality. The Pioneer plasma models in 2006, 2007, and 2008 properly display 1080p/24 source material at 72Hz with an improved picture quality over 60Hz. If Samsung cannot get the 96Hz setting to offer an improved picture quality over 60Hz then they should try 72Hz on the future 2012 models. There are 240Hz LCD based Samsung displays with 10:10 pulldown that do not have this problem. In fact if done correctly 96Hz should offer a better picture quality then 72HZ.

According to CNET the Samsung rep claimed that the rising black levels at 96Hz was due to the need to cycle the phosphors more quickly. But logically with more research and development there would be a fix for that 96Hz issue. If that 96Hz statement is true then the black levels should be much worse in 3-D mode since the Samsung plasma operates at 120Hz in 3-D mode (The phosphors would need to cycle even more).There are many other display technologies that handle 96Hz just fine with an improved picture quality (LCOS, DLP, LCD, etc).

Hopefully Samsung in 2012 will correct the 96Hz issue so that it offers a better picture quality then 60Hz instead of a worse picture quality. Also the triple flash (144fps) or quad flash (192fps) feature would be ideal for 3-D frame packed Blu-ray movies to maintain the original 3-D Cinema quality frame rates. The current 120Hz setting gives consumers 3:2 pulldown judder for each eye in 3-D mode.

The following are select quotes from CNET regarding the 96Hz issue on the Samsung PND8000

“The relatively expensive PND8000 cannot produce full shadow detail or proper 1080p/24 cadence without sacrificing some black-level performance.”

“There's also a CinemaSmooth setting in the Film Mode menu that engages a 96Hz refresh rate to properly handle 1080p/24 sources at the expense of some black-level performance”


“Its black-level performance was very good, with the ability to produce extremely deep blacks, although it failed to resolve full shadow detail--and properly reproduce 1080p/24--when calibrated for those deep blacks.”

“These observations were made (and our calibration was performed) with Film Mode on the PND8000 set to Off, not CinemaSmooth. That's because CS caused a relatively large loss in black level, from 0.0071 to 0.0114 by our measure. The picture also dimmed slightly from 40fL to about 36fL, although of course a tweak to calibration (perhaps at the further expense of black level) could remedy that. See "Video processing" for more details.”



“Video processing: While the PND8000 has the ability to handle 1080p/24 sources with proper cadence thanks to its CinemaSmooth mode (hence the "Pass" in the Geek Box below), we didn't take advantage of it. That's because engaging CS caused black levels to worsen as noted above. We asked a Samsung rep about this black-level rise and he mentioned that it was due to the need to cycle the phosphors more quickly to achieve the 96Hz refresh rate required.”

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn59d8000/4505-6482_7-34468622-2.html?tag=rvwBody

[HDTV1080P]

CNET reports that the Panasonic TC-PVT30 series plasma's has contouring artifacts in 96Hz mode

** CNET decides to use 60Hz mode for evaluation and calibration do to a 96Hz issue **

Is Pioneer the only company that can make a plasma that does multiplies of 24 frames per second correctly with no picture quality problems? Here we have the top of the line Panasonic VT30 and CNET decides to use 60Hz since 96Hz has contouring artifacts. The purpose of 96Hz is to offer a better picture quality when compared to 60Hz by bypassing the 3:2 pulldown process. Instead 96Hz adds contouring artifacts.

Hopefully in 2012 the new Panasonic plasmas will have a 96Hz mode without the contouring artifacts that CNET mentions (Maybe Panasonic should do 72Hz like Pioneer used, 96Hz in theory would be better with further research and development). Also this Panasonic VT30 series operates at 120Hz in 3-D mode with 3:2 pulldown judder for each eye. It would be ideal if Panasonic in 2012 were to offer triple flash (144fps) or quad flash (192fps) when a frame packed 3-D Blu-ray signal is received.

On the positive side Panasonic improved on its black levels in 2011 but the black levels still do not match the Pioneer 2008 plasma’s. The Pioneer 2008 plasmas are still used as a reference display by CNET, Home Theater magazine, and many other professionals.

The following are select quotes from the CNET review

“The VT30 is very expensive, and last year's Panasonic plasmas lost black-level performance over relatively short periods of time. Its color is not as good as the best current plasmas and it uses significantly more power than LCD TVs.”

“Furthermore, we noticed the same kinds of false contouring artifacts in 96Hz mode on the VT30 that we've seen on earlier so-equipped Panasonic plasmas, like the VT25 (see that review for more details). For these reasons we decided to use 60Hz mode for our evaluations and calibration.”

“On the other hand we did notice some artifacts from 1080p/24 sources in 60Hz mode that we didn't see in 96Hz.”

“Of course the VT25 (which we measured at 0.004 fL) only had a couple hundred hours on it; we its black level to worsen as it ages further, while according to Panasonic, the VT30's black levels won't change. If that's the case, then the VT30 is the new plasma black level runner-up to the Pioneer Kuro, but we won't know for sure until we can test how the VT30 ages.”

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p65vt30/4505-6482_7-34468893-2.html?tag=rvwBody

[HDTV1080P]

The 55 inch 1080P Sony KDL-55EX720 offers good black levels with an amazing picture at the Cinema quality 96Hz setting

(June 2011 Home Theater magazine review)

“Solid 2D performance”

"Panel runs at 96 Hz with no 3:2 pulldown to preserve the film-like motion"

** 3-D mode has visible ghosting and no 144fps or 192fps Digital Cinema mode **

The 1080P Sony KDL-55EX720 is far from perfect but it does properly display 2-D 1080p/24 material at 96Hz with an improved picture quality by offering Cinema Quality film like camera pans (Many plasma displays these days have picture quality issues in 96Hz mode but the Sony LCD screens with 96Hz works correctly). The Sony 3-D mode has some major issues like visible ghosting and like all current flat panel displays lacks triple flash (144fps) or quad flash (192fps) when a 3-D frame packed Blu-ray signal is received. The Home Theater review was done with motionflow (frame interpolation) feature turned off so that the Sony would operate at 96Hz using the Cinema quality frame repeating method.

The following are select quotes from the Home Theater magazine review

“When MotionFlow is turned off, the Sony simply repeats the added frames rather than interpolate them, and the panel runs at 96 Hz with no 3:2 pulldown to preserve the film-like motion. I find that interpolation kills the traditional look of movies by giving them an oil-like smoothness that film doesn’t have. Apart from checking this feature out (it works as advertised, if that’s your thing), I didn’t use it for the rest of this review.”

“The set operates at a true refresh rate of 120 hertz in 2D. MotionFlow XR 240 is Sony’s latest take on frame interpolation. It’s available for both 2D and 3D. (Calling it XR 240 with a refresh rate of 120 Hz is a bit misleading, don’t you think?) When engaged in 2D, MotionFlow XR 240 adds four interpolated frames to each real frame in a 1080p/24 source. This brings the onscreen refresh rate up to the set’s native 120 Hz. For 3D, where the frames must alternate between the eyes, displaying each frame an odd number of times (five) will not work. When MotionFlow is engaged with 24-fps 3D content, the source first undergoes 3:2 pulldown, which changes it to 60 fps, and the panel runs at 120 Hz. MotionFlow is said to produce the most aggressive smoothing when the separate CineMotion control is set to Auto 1, but I noticed little difference between Auto 1 and Auto 2.”

“For an edge-lit set with no pretense to dynamic LED lighting, the KDL-55EX720’s blacks and shadow detail were often startlingly good. Fadeouts between scenes dropped quickly and smoothly to total black as the LEDs turned off completely. Blacks weren’t quite so subterranean with even the subtlest hint of illumination from the source, but they challenged the capabilities of our reference light meter (see HT Labs Measures). Only rarely did I see a hint of the gray fog that can obscure dark scenes on some edge-lit LCDs.”

"Conclusions
The Sony KDL-55EX720 is a fine value as a solid-performing 2D set, with accurate color, good detail, and some of the best black levels and shadow detail I’ve seen in this price range. In 3D, it shows considerable ghosting. While that may put off some viewers, others will be drawn to the set’s bright, vividly dimensional, and (accurately) colorful 3D images."

** Click here to read the complete Sony KDL-55EX720 review at the Home Theater Magazine website **

[john_1958]

i wish 3d was like this video
http://www.eyeliner3d.com/musion_eyeliner_setup_video.html