3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by CassilineKnight

Hmmm thanks for the answer...

What about future HDTV's that will be coming out this summer or fall? Anyword on just how good they will be when it comes to all this stuff and Bluray?

BLUYRAY still looks great on a 1080P/60 display, hopefully Samsung will add true multiplies of the original frame methods on future models.

[HDTV1080P]

New Toshiba 2008 LCD screens have been added to the list

Toshiba will soon be releasing some new 1080P screens that offer true 5:5 pulldown according to their press release. 5:5 pulldown is a marketing term that means 1080P/24 is displayed on the screen at multiplies of the original frame until 120fps (HZ) is reached.

Toshiba’s that have been added to the list

Toshiba 42XV540
Toshiba 46XV540
Toshiba 52XV540
Toshiba 40XF550
Toshiba 46XF550
Toshiba 52XF550

Quote
“For “Sports and Action” Lovers, Toshiba is introducing the REGZA XV540 Series which includes models in 42”, 46”, and 52” (diagonal). Distinguishing the 1080p Full HD XV540 Series is Toshiba’s improved ClearFrame 120 Hz Frame Rate with Film Stabilization and new 5:5 Pull-Down for clear fast-motion video, and 14-Bit PixelPure 4G Internal Digital Video Processing with 10-Bit LCD panels for a stunning 16,384 levels of gradation. These models also include ColorBurst wide color gamut CCFL at 108% of the NTSC color gamut for rich lifelike color, and 4 HDMI (1 side) 1.3 Inputs with x.v. Color and Deep Color for the amazing possible color depth and REGZA Link (HDMI CEC) for simple connectivity to home theater components.
Cinema Series REGZA XF550 Series – Super Narrow Bezel Design & ClearFrame
For “High-Style” Conscious Consumers, Toshiba has brought its award-winning “Super Narrow Bezel” (the world’s thinnest LCD TV bezel* at only 0.9”), and thinner SoundStrip 2 speaker system, to its new top-of-the-line XF550 Cinema Series REGZA models, allowing more TV in less space. These “virtually all-screen” models combine 1080p Full HD resolution, and 14-Bit PixelPure 4G Digital Video Processing with 10-Bit LCD panels for a stunning 16,384 levels of gradation. These models also include DynaLight SuperContrast for superior black levels, ColorBurst wide color gamut CCFL at 108% of the NTSC color gamut for rich lifelike color, and improved ClearFrame 120 Hz Frame Rate with Film Stabilization and new 5:5 Pull-Down for clear fast-motion video to deliver an all-new level of picture quality. Available in 40”, 46” and a new 52” (diagonal) screen sizes, these models also incorporate 3 HDMI 1.3 Inputs with x.v. Color and Deep Color for amazing color depth and REGZA Link (HDMI CEC) for simple connectivity to home theater components.”
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=190

[HDTV1080P]

5 Sony LCD screens added to the list

It appears that Sony is just like Pioneer and all of their displays every made that have a 1080P/24 input will refresh the image on the screen at multiplies of the original frame. Hopefully my sources are correct. According to one of my sources and a review link from PC magazine there are 5 Sony 1080P 60HZ LCD’s that will refresh 1080P/24 material at 48HZ on the screen. Watching 48HZ on a LCD will reduce or eliminate 3:2 pulldown judder but it also will produce some smearing and flickering. It would be better to purchase a 120HZ LCD from Sony since the picture quality is much better compared to the normal Sony LCD screens. Higher refresh rates in general have a better picture quality especially for a LCD screen. 48HZ looks good on a Front projector but not recommended for LCD refresh rates since LCD main weakness is motion blur especially at lower refresh rates. The elements in a LCD screen are slower to respond on the screen compared to other technologies like CRT, Plasma, and SXRD (LCOS) displays.

Sony LCD screens that have been added to the list

Sony KDL-52W3000 (48HZ)
Sony KDL-46W3000 (48HZ)
Sony KDL-40W3000 (48HZ)
Sony KDL-46V3000 (48HZ)
Sony KDL-40V3000 (48HZ)

Quote
“The KDL-46V3000's HDMI port also accepted 1080p input at 24 Hz (1080p24), and Sony claimed the TV automatically displays this video format using a 48 Hz refresh rate (24 Hz x 2 - an even multiple) that eliminates the shaking/wobbling effect known as judder that is caused when 24p material is converted for display on a typical (60 Hz refresh rate) HDTV—the telecine process. Viewing examinations using 24p video material confirmed the KDL-46V3000 did reduce judder producing admirably smooth panning shots, however, the reduced refresh rate (48 Hz) did introduce additional flicker into some vertically orientated details as the camera panned.”

Negatives
“Sadly, despite an otherwise strong showing, when displaying scenes depicting lots of motion, the KDL-46V3000 was among the most smear-prone sets I've seen”. “Viewing angles, however, did affect the perception of color quality. Loss of saturation was obvious in skin tones starting at 20 degrees off-axis from the center of the screen.”

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2210884,00.asp

[HDTV1080P]

Important updates have been made to the main list (reference links)

In order to make the list more useful I have made some changes. While reading the list one can now click on the link for a particular display. When the link is clicked on one will be able to view most of the time the documented evidence on why the display is located on the list. Clicking on a link will most of the time take one to the manufactories official spec sheet or directly to the page where the professional review is located that mentions the “true 1080P/24 native refresh rate feature”. Some of the links to read the professional review you need a paid subscription to read the full review. When there is two different reviews that are from two different publications I have placed the link to the free online review if it mentions the 1080P/24 feature. Most of the time each link will be different for each model number. Currently clicking on any Sony 120HZ refresh rate LCD model will bring up the review for the XBR4. The reason for this is this review is currently the only one that mentions in details how the Sony XBR4 and other 120HZ LCD’s work with 1080P/24. According to Sony’s website and other sources it’s been verified that all the 120HZ LCD Sony’s use the exact same method as the XBR4 models when it comes to displaying 1080P/24. When and if more models of 120HZ Sony’s are reviewed I will update the link with the exact model numbers as long as the reviews mentions the 1080P/24 feature.

[HDTV1080P]

The Sharp XV-Z2000U Front Projector will not be added to the list

Quote
“Although not mentioned in the specifications, the projector also
accepted 1080p24, 1080p24sf, and 1080p48 signals over HDMI. But
none of those signals were displayed at the input frame rate, or an
exact multiple of the frame rate, and consequently they produced
significant judder and periodic dark flashes. This is a serious limitation
that prevents the projector from displaying judder-free movies
from upconverters and future Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD players that
provide 1080p24 signals.”

http://www.widescreenreview.com/eq_detail.php?id=449

Even though this projector does not handle 1080P/24 material at multiplies of the original frame it does have a 1080P/48 input so if one purchases a expensive external video processor one can watch BLU-RAY and other film based material at 48HZ.

[HDTV1080P]

The Samsung LN-T4071F, LN-T4671F, and LN-T5271F have been added to the list.

Sony now has some competition for those looking for the true 1080P/24 5:5 pulldown feature (multiplies of the original frame). It has now officially been confirmed by a professional review published by Scott Wilkinson at UltimateAVmag.com that the Samsung LN-T4671F offers true 5:5 pulldown.
All 3 Samsung displays use the exact same instruction manual and the specs are exactly the same on each model accept the physical weight and size. The instruction manual has an error in it on page 29 it mentions that if you turn off Auto Motion Plus it also turns off 120HZ. If one reads the instruction manual one would think their display becomes a 60HZ display just like all the other 60HZ Samsung displays. According to the professional review the 120HZ Samsung is always native 120HZ even when Auto Motion is turned off. When auto motion is turned on it may once and a while improve 60HZ video by interpolating each frame but it also causes major artifacts in the picture once and a while. When auto motion is turned off 60HZ is frame doubled to 120HZ without the problem of artifacts at the cost of having a less smooth picture. When Auto Motion is turned off and one is watching a BLU-RAY the set will repeat each 24fps frame until it reaches 120HZ. This Samsung offers true 5:5 pulldown and the image from BLU-RAY will look like 35MM or 70MM film instead a artificial smooth 60HZ video look.



Added to the list
Samsung LN-T4071F
Samsung LN-T4671F
Samsung LN-T5271F


Quote
“The LN-T4671F includes a feature called Auto Motion Plus (AMP), which can be set to Low, Medium, or High, or it can be turned off. If it's off, each frame in a 60Hz signal is simply doubled, and each frame in a 24Hz signal is repeated five times. In any event, the set's refresh rate is always 120Hz whether or not AMP is enabled.”

Some Positive items from the review

The Samsung 120HZ models will decode 3:2 pulldown from 60HZ material.
Quote
“In any case, with a 60Hz signal, the processor is said to determine the original frame rate—converting it back to 24fps using inverse telecine if it encounters 3:2 pulldown..”

“I really like the menu system, which is much better than the one in Samsung's earlier TVs. The picture controls are now the first things to appear when you press the Menu button, rather than being several layers deep.”

“All in all, the LN-T4671F is a fine LCD TV. It exhibits exceptional color and detail, the blacks are nice and deep, and the shadow detail is better than most LCDs I've seen”

“Real-World Performance
Pioneer created a Blu-ray demo disc to show off its Kuro line of plasmas, but that material is great for evaluating all types of displays, especially in terms of black level and shadow detail. The Samsung's blacks were certainly not on par with the Kuros', but no one should expect them to be, especially an LCD with conventional backlighting. Still, they weren't bad by any means, and shadow detail was surprisingly good—that is, once I had set the TV's brightness and backlight controls correctly. Colors were beautiful, and detail was razor-sharp.”

“Turning to Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl on Blu-ray, the Samsung produced a smooth, natural image with exceptional color and detail. Shadow detail in night scenes was similarly excellent.”

Negatives

Quote
“The FPD For Professionals Blu-ray test disc provides some excellent clips to evaluate a flat-panel display's motion rendering and other characteristics. Auto Motion Plus did clean up moving objects quite a bit, but it also introduced some serious artifacts in certain types of images.
For example, it sharpened the horizontally scrolling monoscope pattern, but the horizontal and diagonal bursts were full of distortion artifacts. Turning AMP off removed the artifacts, but the motion was a lot blurrier. AMP did improve the horizontally scrolling characters and map as well as the swinging hammock and metronome without problems, but the artifacts are so obvious when they appear that I tended to leave AMP off. “
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/208sam4671/

[turboedguy]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The LN-T4681F refreshes 1080P/24 at 60HZ. The Samsung LN-T4671F refreshes images on the screen at 120HZ and it may use a 3:2 pulldown technique when 1080P/24 signal is applied (waiting for a review to know for sure).
The Samsungs are ok displays for watching HDTV from cable, satellite, or over the air broadcasts but if you are planning on buying a new 1080P display and think that you may spend many hours watching BLU-RAY’s then a Pioneer Plasma or Sony LCD flat panel that are located on the list would give you the full quality of the BLU-RAY format.

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

BLUYRAY still looks great on a 1080P/60 display, hopefully Samsung will add true multiplies of the original frame methods on future models.

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Samsung LN-T4071F, LN-T4671F, and LN-T5271F have been added to the list.

Sony now has some competition for those looking for the true 1080P/24 5:5 pulldown feature (multiplies of the original frame). It has now officially been confirmed by a professional review published by Scott Wilkinson at UltimateAVmag.com that the Samsung LN-T4671F offers true 5:5 pulldown.
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]All 3 Samsung displays use the exact same instruction manual and the specs are exactly the same on each model accept the physical weight and size. The instruction manual has an error in it on page 29 it mentions that if you turn off Auto Motion Plus it also turns off 120HZ. If one reads the instruction manual one would think their display becomes a 60HZ display just like all the other 60HZ Samsung displays. According to the professional review the 120HZ Samsung is always native 120HZ even when Auto Motion is turned off. When auto motion is turned on it may once and a while improve 60HZ video by interpolating each frame but it also causes major artifacts in the picture once and a while. When auto motion is turned off 60HZ is frame doubled to 120HZ without the problem of artifacts at the cost of having a less smooth picture. [B][U]When Auto Motion is turned off and one is watching a BLU-RAY the set will repeat each 24fps frame until it reaches 120HZ. This Samsung offers true 5:5 pulldown and the image from BLU-RAY will look like 35MM or 70MM film instead a artificial smooth 60HZ video look.

Hmm...

Maybe now after a professional reviewed them, The 71 series Samsungs are OK...

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by turboedguy

Hmm...

Maybe now after a professional reviewed them, The 71 series Samsungs are OK...

This thread is only for people looking for a particular feature on a display. Just because that feature is missing does not mean the display is bad. This review just came out tonight and is the first published review that shows that Samsung has started to use 5:5 pulldown. Every other review published in the last year has shown that Samsung was using a 3:2 pulldown process.

[turboedguy]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

This thread is only for people looking for a particular feature on a display. Just because that feature is missing does not mean the display is bad. This review just came out tonight and is the first published review that shows that Samsung has started to use 5:5 pulldown. Every other review published in the last year has shown that Samsung was using a 3:2 pulldown process.

I must have mistook your comments, im sorry.

I just keep hearing how the XBR4 is so superior to the Sammys, even though I tested both at Circuit City with a Spiderman 3 BD, playing through a Sony 300 at 24 hz. I was there for about three hours playing with both, and honestly the Sammys motion looked smoother, and the black levels were deffenetly better. I actually went there for the XBR4 after listening to all the hype on this forum. I wanted to replace my 60hz Sammy (LNT4695D) after being fairly disapointed with ghosting and poor contrast levels. I also heard all the hype on 120hz witch made me want the Sony even more. Well I went home with the Sammy. The few hundred dollar difference was not a concern. (I understand that neither were calibrated, but I still got close.)

Im sorry for the ramble, Im just happy that you posted this. I love Sony products, but Im just glad there is proof that there is a equel, and In my opinion a superior LCD on the market.

[HDTV1080P]

Here are a list of some of the Samsungs that use a 3:2 pulldown process and will not be added to the list

1. Samsung FP-T5884 Plasma

Quote
“The FP-T5884 will accept signals up to 1080p at 60 or 24Hz via HDMI; the component input can accept 1080p/60. Unfortunately, the set converts 1080p/24 to 60Hz for display by applying 3:2 pulldown, eliminating the benefit of having a 1080p/24 source. There aren't many plasmas (or other displays) that show 1080p/24 correctly—that is, at a multiple of 24Hz, which results in smoother motion from film-based content. “
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/208sam884/

2. Samsung LN-T5281F LCD

Quote
“The Samsung will accept a 1080p/24 input, but it converts it internally to 1080p/60 prior to display. Whether you will be better off simply changing the output resolution on your high-definition player to 1080p/60 to begin with will depend on which device—the player or the set—does a better job in converting 1080p/24 to 1080p/60. It's likely you won't see any difference.”

http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/1207sam5281/index2.html

3. Samsung LN-T5265F LCD

Quote
“The Samsung will accept a 1080p/24fps input, but it converts it internally to 1080p/60fps prior to display. Whether you will be better off simply changing the output resolution on your high-definition player to 1080p/60 to begin with will depend on which device—the player or the set—does a better job in converting 1080p/24 to 1080p/60. It's likely you won't see any difference, but do experiment.”

http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/807sam52/index2.html

[HDTV1080P]

The Samsung series 6 and 7 LCD flat panels have been added to the list

According to Samsungs product news the new Series 6 and 7 LCD screens use the same Auto Motion Plus 120HZ technology as the 71F series. When Auto motion Plus is turned off the display will no longer use interpolation of new frames and it will repeat each 24fps signal 5 times for true 5:5 pulldown (120HZ refresh).
Quote
“The LN-T4671F includes a feature called Auto Motion Plus (AMP), which can be set to Low, Medium, or High, or it can be turned off. If it's off, each frame in a 60Hz signal is simply doubled, and each frame in a 24Hz signal is repeated five times. In any event, the set's refresh rate is always 120Hz whether or not AMP is enabled.”

http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/208sam4671/


Quote from Samsung Series 6 and 7 product news.
“The fast response time, coupled with Samsung’s Auto Motion Plus 120Hz™ motion blur reduction technology dramatically reduces motion blur and judder—making the set ideal for playing video games and watching action sports.”

http://www.samsung.com/us/news/newsRead.do?news_group=productnews&news_type=consu merproduct&news_ctgry=tv&news_seq=6445


LCD flat panels added to the list

Samsung LN-40A650T (Scheduled for a March release)
Samsung LN-46A650T (Scheduled for a March release)
Samsung LN-52A650T (Scheduled for a March release)
Samsung LN-40A750T (scheduled for a May release)
Samsung LN-46A750T (scheduled for a May release)
Samsung LN-52A750T (scheduled for a May release)

[HDTV1080P]

Samsung HL-T5687S DLP rear projector will not be added to the list since it displays 1080P/24 at 60HZ when one can get it to work with a BLU-RAY player

Quote
“The Samsung will accept a 1080p/24fps input, but it converts it internally to 1080p/60fps prior to display. And it will not accept a 1080p/24fps input from Samsung's own BD-P1200 Blu-ray player, a trait it shares with the Samsung LN-T5265F flat panel LCD.
It did accept a 1080p/24 input from the Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 BD player, but its 24fps performance with that player was unsatisfactory. It skipped a frame or two every few minutes, which caused the image to stutter. I sent 1080p/60 to the set for all of my HD disc viewing. “
http://ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/807sam5687/index2.html

[HDTV1080P]

Update on the Mitsubishi HC6000 Front Projector

In the March 2008 Home Theater magazine on page 46 there is confirmation in a review that the Mitsubishi HC6000 will display 1080P/24 at 48HZ which verifies that the information in the November 2007 Widescreen review magazine is correct regarding this model.

Quote from page 46 of March 2008 Home Theater magazine

“The HDMI inputs accept both 1080P/60 and 1080P/24, and the projector outputs 1080P/48 when receiving a 1080P/24 signal, for smoother, less juddery presentation.”

Added following info on May 13th 2008:

Mitsubishi HC6000 LCD front projector

In the June 2008 Sound and Vision magazine on page 62 and 63 there is a detailed review on this front projector. On page 62 it mentions the following
“The HC6000 will also accept a 24p input from a Blu-ray Disc player, automatically frame-doubling the signal to a 48P display”

[dobyblue]

The Panasonic -800 and -850 series will accept 1080p24 and display it at 48Hz.

The Panasonic -80 and -85 series will accept a 24Hz signal and perform 2:3 pulldown and display at 60Hz.



Again, the -85 series which were originally slated as having "24p native reproduction" do not. Only the -800 and -850 series will have this feature. The -850 series will also be IPTV, supporting Viera Cast.

-800 line

TH-50PZ800 (Spring 2008)
TH-46PZ800 (Spring 2008)
TH-42PZ800 (Spring 2008)

-850 line (with IP, Viera Cast)

TH-65PZ850 (Fall 2008)
TH-58PZ850 (Fall 2008)
TH-50PZ850 (Spring 2008)
TH-46PZ850U (Spring 2008)

For more info about the IP features - http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...72008044142737

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

The Panasonic -800 and -850 series will accept 1080p24 and display it at 48Hz.

The Panasonic -80 and -85 series will accept a 24Hz signal and perform 2:3 pulldown and display at 60Hz.



Again, the -85 series which were originally slated as having "24p native reproduction" do not. Only the -800 and -850 series will have this feature. The -850 series will also be IPTV, supporting Viera Cast.

-800 line

TH-50PZ800 (Spring 2008)
TH-46PZ800 (Spring 2008)
TH-42PZ800 (Spring 2008)

-850 line (with IP, Viera Cast)

TH-65PZ850 (Fall 2008)
TH-58PZ850 (Fall 2008)
TH-50PZ850 (Spring 2008)
TH-46PZ850U (Spring 2008)

For more info about the IP features - http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...72008044142737

Thanks alot for the info

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic Plasma’s added to the list

TH-50PZ800 (Spring 2008)
TH-46PZ800 (Spring 2008)
TH-42PZ800 (Spring 2008)
TH-65PZ850 (Fall 2008)
TH-58PZ850 (Fall 2008)
TH-50PZ850 (Spring 2008)
TH-46PZ850U (Spring 2008)

The 80 and 85 series will not be added since it appears they refresh 1080P/24 at 60HZ.


Here is some more information on the Sony series coming out. The none 120HZ Sony’s being released like the V4100 series need further verification to verify they are using 48HZ like the PC magazine mentions. I wish manufactories would label stuff like 48HZ, 72HZ, etc to make things easy.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6535289.html?desc=topstory

[SDon1969]

This thread is a tad over my head, sorry, but I have the Samsung LN-T4061F. I gather it doesn't make the list due to being a 60 Hz set, correct (even though it supports the 24 Hz feature on my PS3)?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by SDon1969

This thread is a tad over my head, sorry, but I have the Samsung LN-T4061F. I gather it doesn't make the list due to being a 60 Hz set, correct (even though it supports the 24 Hz feature on my PS3)?

That's correct - it converts to 60Hz using 3:2 pulldown.

However if you have motion plus on and smart dimming on then you're getting a better picture than most other LCD sets that do correctly implement 5:5 pulldown and 120Hz.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by SDon1969

This thread is a tad over my head, sorry, but I have the Samsung LN-T4061F. I gather it doesn't make the list due to being a 60 Hz set, correct (even though it supports the 24 Hz feature on my PS3)?

I believe it does 60HZ, I have not officially read anything lately on that model. It appears that unless a Samsung display is a 120HZ model that offers the off mode for Auto Motion Plus that it will use a 3:2 pulldown method when a 1080P/24 signal is applied.

[SDon1969]

Okay, thanks Dobly & HDTV1080P, appreciate it!

Edit - Ugh, somehow I missed the large bold type on page one that says 60 Hz sets aren't included on the list. My bad.