3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[gekke henkie]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I do not know how long I will keep updating this list since it is very time consuming and I get tired ....

Oh no
Please keep it up, even when only once in a while. If you are not doing it, and nobody else in this world does (AFAIK), how will we ever have an overview of 24p displays for the timeframe until most companies mention their pull-down process (hopefully soon, but probably a while longer)???

Whithout knowing (how many hits does this thread have?), you provide a great source of information which is highly appreciated by many! Simply said: you

[Purplegrasshopper]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

If I see a professional review on the Sharp I will post it. At this time I do not know how 1080P/24 is handled.

You posted this many, many months ago. Just wondering if you've found out anything on Sharp's LC-65SE94U. Thanks!

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Purplegrasshopper

You posted this many, many months ago. Just wondering if you've found out anything on Sharp's LC-65SE94U. Thanks!

So far I have not seen a review on the Sharp LC-65SE94U or any other 120HZ Sharp display that mentions how 1080P/24 is handled. Most likely all the 120HZ Sharps use 3:2 pulldown and convert 24fps to 60HZ and then 60HZ to 120HZ. At this time I do not know for sure how the 120HZ Sharp models handle 1080P/24 signals. There are many models and brands of displays that never receive a review and to make matters worse most companies do not label the pull down method that is used to process 1080P/24 signals. Some displays consumers might never know how 1080P/24 signals are processed.

[Purplegrasshopper]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

So far I have not seen a review on the Sharp LC-65SE94U or any other 120HZ Sharp display that mentions how 1080P/24 is handled. Most likely all the 120HZ Sharps use 3:2 pulldown and convert 24fps to 60HZ and then 60HZ to 120HZ. At this time I do not know for sure how the 120HZ Sharp models handle 1080P/24 signals. There are many models and brands of displays that never receive a review and to make matters worse if the manufacry does not label the pull down method that is used to process 1080P/24 some displays might never be known how 1080P/24 is processed.

Fair enough...thanks! Maybe I'll just try calling Sharp and ask them.

[HDTV1080P]

5 new Sharp 1080P LCD flat panels have been added to the list

According to my research it is my understanding that Sharp is using a new feature on 5 of its higher-end LCD models called "Fine Motion Enhanced ". When a 1080P/24 signal is received on a Sharp that contains "Fine Motion Enhanced" the image is refreshed on the screen at 96HZ using the repeated frame method without interpolation of new frames (4:4 pulldown). Sharp is the only LCD flat panel manufactory that currently automatically displays 1080P/24 correctly at multiplies of the original frame regardless of menu settings. All the other LCD flat panel brands on the list one needs to make sure the menu settings are set correctly in order to display 1080P/24 correctly similar to the way a film projector does. 60HZ material is displayed at 120HZ on the 120HZ Sharp displays. Also when film mode is turned on the Sharps in theory should automatically detect 3:2 pulldown material from standard DVD, cable, and satellite film based material and convert the 60HZ material to 96HZ using a reverse 3:2 pulldown process.

The following high quality LED backlight LCD models have been added to the list since they have "Fine Motion Enhanced" It should be noted that no review mentions how the 1080P/24 process is handled on these displays but according to Sharp specs they use the new "Fine Motion Enhanced" feature which means 96HZ refresh rate for 1080P/24 signals.

Sharp LC-65XS1U-S (Top of the line with LED backlighting) (96Hz refresh rate for 1080P/24) 60HZ sources refreshed at 120HZ

Sharp LC-52XS1U-S (Top of the line with LED backlighting) (96Hz refresh rate for 1080P/24) 60HZ sources refreshed at 120HZ

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/3061/sharp-lc-52xs1u-s-52-inch-led-lcd-hdtv.html

The following 3 Sharp 85U series displays are being added to the list since the UltimateAV magazine review proves that the LC-52D85U is 96HZ refresh rate for 1080P/24 signals.


SHARP LC-52D85U (96Hz refresh rate for 1080P/24) 60HZ sources refreshed at 120HZ

SHARP LC-46D85U (96Hz refresh rate for 1080P/24) 60HZ sources refreshed at 120HZ

SHARP LC-42D85U (96Hz refresh rate for 1080P/24) 60HZ sources refreshed at 120HZ


Quotes from Ultimate AV magazine

"As I started to watch some Blu-ray movies, I was astonished to discover that the Fine Motion Enhanced frame-interpolation control was "grayed out" in the menu and completely unavailable. According to Sharp, if the set gets 1080p/24—which I was sending—it displays the image at 96Hz (each frame is displayed four times), not 120Hz, which is unique in my experience. Apparently, this is a holdover from the 60Hz models that displayed 1080p/24 at 48Hz. Frame interpolation only works if the set receives a 60Hz signal.
" Unfortunately, the relatively high black level was very evident at the beginning of Stargate: Continuum on Blu-ray. The black of space was not deep at all, and many of the stars I know to be in that image were not visible."

"Comparisons & Conclusion
The most direct comparison I can make is with the Toshiba 52XV545U, which carries the same list price as the Sharp. The Toshiba has better blacks, and its special upscaling technology really can improve the detail of standard-def material. On the other hand, its colors are not as good, especially green and cyan.
If you can spend a bit more, I would also consider the Samsung LN52A750 ($3200) and Sony KDL-52W4100 ($3000). Both are more expensive than the Sharp by several hundred dollars, but they have lower black levels and offer access to online and USB content, which may or may not be important to you.
There's much to like about the Sharp LC-52D85U and nothing glaringly wrong. Its colors are excellent, as is its video processing for the most part. The biggest drawback is its relatively high black level, which prevents the picture from "popping," and mediocre shadow detail. Also, the overall detail isn't quite as crisp as I've seen on other sets, perhaps due in part to the mild-mannered performance of its frame interpolation, which isn't even active on 1080p/24 material. Still, I'm glad to see high-end features such as 120Hz and a color-management system—albeit incomplete here—in less-expensive sets such as this.

Highs
Beautiful colors
Excellent video processing
Can be calibrated very well from service menu

Lows
High black level
Mediocre shadow detail
User menu remains on screen while adjusting picture controls"

http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/sharp_lc-52d85u_lcd_tv/index3.html

P.S.
There are a few Sharp 60HZ displays on the list that display 1080P/24 signals at 48HZ and possible there are some more Sharp 60HZ display models on the market that display 1080P/24 signals automatically at 48HZ that should be on the list but are not yet since no documented information is available on which models offer this feature. Unless Sharp starts labeling the pulldown process for their 60HZ and 120HZ models the average consumer will not know which displays are 60HZ (3:2 PULLDOWN) only and which will offer the film quality 48HZ or 96HZ refresh option when a 1080P/24 signal is received.

[JOE.G]

Samsung DLP HLT 6176S Does this tv do 24P? 1920x1080 @60hz I am useing HDMI and the player is the new Panny DMP BD 55.

My 2nd TV is Samsung PN50A650 Plasma hooked to a Panny DMP BD 10 A HDMI cable. Thanks

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by JOE.G

Samsung DLP HLT 6176S Does this tv do 24P? 1920x1080 @60hz I am useing HDMI and the player is the new Panny DMP BD 55.

My 2nd TV is Samsung PN50A650 Plasma hooked to a Panny DMP BD 10 A HDMI cable. Thanks

All the Samsung DLP rear projectors and all the Samsung Plasma displays that accept a 1080P/24 signal convert 1080P/24 signals to 60HZ using a 3:2 pull down process. 60HZ still looks good with BLU-RAY and with your displays you most likely will not notice a difference between 1080P/24 and 1080P/60 unless the BLU-RAY player or TV has a better 3:2 pulldown process. The original purpose of 1080P/24 signals coming out of a BLU-RAY player was to bypass the 3:2 pulldown process. The Samsung 120HZ LCD displays will do that when auto motion plus is turned off.


Also the 120HZ DLP rear projectors from Samsung and Mitsubishi convert 1080P/24 to 60HZ using 3:2 pulldown and then frame double the 60HZ to 120HZ.

[JOE.G]

How come I can not select 24 P int heDMP BD 55 menu it is grayed out and right now it is int he off mode? thanks

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by JOE.G

How come I can not select 24 P int heDMP BD 55 menu it is grayed out and right now it is int he off mode? thanks

99% of all BLU-RAY movies are in 1080P/24. Double check the Samsung display instruction manual to see if it supports both 1080P/24 and 1080P/60. Some 1080P displays only support 1080P/60. Another issue could be the HDMI handshaking between the Panasonic and the Samsung are not working correctly and the reason the 24p mode is grayed out might be because either the Samsung or Panasonic are not communicating correctly with each other.
Try plugging the Panasonic BLU-RAY player into another 1080P display to see if you can select 1080P/24.

[azereus]

It seems like all the LCD's in the list start at 40" and go up from there.

Is there any 32" LCDs that will support a 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate?

I would prefer Samsung or Sony but open to suggestions.

Thanks

[JOE.G]

Samsung HL-T6176S I can not find it in the manual if it supports 24 P anyone know for sure?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by azereus

It seems like all the LCD's in the list start at 40" and go up from there.

Is there any 32" LCDs that will support a 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate?

I would prefer Samsung or Sony but open to suggestions.

Thanks

The smallest true 1080P/24 display on the market is a 37 inch model by LG called 37LG60. Sony and Samsung smallest displays are 40 inches that support 5:5 pulldown. Possible in a couple years 720P displays may disappear from the market and leaving only 1080P displays to choose from, then there would be a lot more 1080P displays under 30 inches. If you need 32 inch size you can get a 1080P 60HZ that adds 3:2 pulldown. 37 inch currently is the smallest LCD that offers true 1080P/24 refresh rates without 3:2 pulldown.
Many people can not see the difference between 720P and 1080P unless the screen is 50 inches or larger since they seat so far from the display. Small screen sizes are fine if one seats close enough. Even with a small 20 inch 1080P 60HZ computer monitor one can still experience the benefits of 1080P if they seat close enough to the screen.
Here is a distance calculator that is ideal to use when determining screen size.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

[mindbender]

Since I did not see the Pioneer Pro1140HD listed, would you suggest waiting to buy a Blu-ray player until I upgrade the panel?

Thanks.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by JOE.G

Samsung HL-T6176S I can not find it in the manual if it supports 24 P anyone know for sure?

As far as I am aware the Samsung HL-T6176S supports only 1080P 60HZ input and not 1080P 24HZ. Unless I ran some test with a PS3 or other BLU-RAY player in forced 1080P/24 mode I would not know for sure. The spec sheet on the Samsung only mentions 1080P input and does not mention 1080P/24. http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/pdf/hl-t6176s_final.pdf
On page 76 of the instruction manual 60HZ is mentioned for 1920 X 1080 PC support.
According to every review I have read, 100% of all Samsung rear projector models that offer the 1080P/24 input feature adds 3:2 pulldown which offers no benefit to 1080P/24 signals. The main purpose of 1080P/24 is to bypass the 3:2 pulldown process.

[odin24]

Sony KDL46S4100, or here.

Could you please explain how the 1080/24p input/output works on a 60Hz TV? Does the set do this by using 3:2 pulldown?

What is so special about Sony's 24p True Cinema? I though all 1080p sets accept 24p material (BD/HDDVD content), does their feature somehow display 24p content on a 60Hz TV?

Thanks.

[Clapton101]

just bought me a Pioneer PDP-5010Fd (absolutely gorgeous Pic.) If i under stand right it is a 1080/24 so with my BD-35 hooked up to it and having 24p turned on it will do a true 24 frames not using a pull down? I know that when i got it up on the wall, hooked up and turn the bd play on in 24p i could tell an incredible difference.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by odin24

Sony KDL46S4100, or here.

Could you please explain how the 1080/24p input/output works on a 60Hz TV? Does the set do this by using 3:2 pulldown?

What is so special about Sony's 24p True Cinema? I though all 1080p sets accept 24p material (BD/HDDVD content), does their feature somehow display 24p content on a 60Hz TV?

Thanks.

My understanding is that most Sony 60HZ displays that accept a 1080P/24 signal will use 3:2 pulldown to convert the image to 60HZ. Which eliminates the benefits of 1080P/24. According to PC magazine the Sony Bravia KDL-46V3000 60HZ display will refresh 1080P/24 at 48HZ which gives one the full benefits of 1080P/24. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2210884,00.asp
The problem is unless Sony starts labeling the pulldown that is used on the 60HZ displays one will not know if any of the current Sony 60HZ displays in production offer 48HZ refresh rate for 1080P/24. It is possible that all the current 60HZ Sony's in production are 60HZ only refresh rate unless a review is released to prove otherwise.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Clapton101

just bought me a Pioneer PDP-5010Fd (absolutely gorgeous Pic.) If i under stand right it is a 1080/24 so with my BD-35 hooked up to it and having 24p turned on it will do a true 24 frames not using a pull down? I know that when i got it up on the wall, hooked up and turn the bd play on in 24p i could tell an incredible difference.

I am glad you are enjoying your new Pioneer PDP-5010FD 2007 model. The 2008 model has a little better picture but has less features compared to the 2007 model. In terms of features your PDP-5010FD is better than the new 2008 PDP-5020FD. Your PDP-5010FD has a built in RF A/B switch, 2 component inputs, cable card slot that allows one to use the TV with encrypted TV movie channels without renting a cable box, and other nice features that were removed from the 2008 model to make it cheaper in price.

Answer to your question

Every Pioneer 1080P display every made including your model will display 1080P/24 correctly using 3:3 pulldown regardless of the menu settings. The Pioneer's automatically refresh at 72HZ for 1080P/24. Now if you plan on watching a lot of 480I DVD or 1080I cable TV programming that is film based then place the Pioneer in the advanced mode so that it will do a reverse 3:2 pulldown for film based programs and display them at 72HZ.

[jdc115]

Hi,

This maybe a bit of a stretch to find out, but any idea if the Samsung in Singapore does proper pulldown to support 1080p/24?

The reason I ask, I can find the Samsung LN-40A650 here in stores but it is labeled as 100HZ motion flow. Most of the sales guys don't understand when I try to explain to them the difference between a display being able to display 24hz properly vs just accepting a 24hz signal and converting it to 60hz.

The last time I talked to the sales guy I was told that the LN-40A650 does not support 120hz here in Singapore, just 100hz.

Let me know if you have any idea though I know it might be out of your scope for maintaining this list

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by jdc115

Hi,

This maybe a bit of a stretch to find out, but any idea if the Samsung in Singapore does proper pulldown to support 1080p/24?

The reason I ask, I can find the Samsung LN-40A650 here in stores but it is labeled as 100HZ motion flow. Most of the sales guys don't understand when I try to explain to them the difference between a display being able to display 24hz properly vs just accepting a 24hz signal and converting it to 60hz.

The last time I talked to the sales guy I was told that the LN-40A650 does not support 120hz here in Singapore, just 100hz.

Let me know if you have any idea though I know it might be out of your scope for maintaining this list

This list only contains US models since the magazines I subscribe to and sources are USA based. The Samsung 100HZ international models will convert 50HZ PAL to 100HZ in order to reduce LCD motion blur issues. Now when it comes to 1080P/24 signals I am not sure how the international Samsung 100HZ models handle it. There is a strong possibility that when the motion feature is turned off that maybe the Samsungs might do a 4:4 pulldown of 96HZ and bypass 2:2 50HZ PAL pulldown and 3:2 NTSC 60HZ pulldown. I do not know for sure and this is only a guess.