3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[dobyblue]

Although not listed as having 24p native reproduction, the manual for the new G-Series of Viera plasma's shows that there is a setting for 24p input - it can be set at either 48Hz or 60Hz, using 2:2 pulldown. 60Hz is the default setting.



The V-Series and Z-Series will use 96Hz, or 4:4 pulldown.

VIERA recreates the unique atmosphere of movie images. Enjoy cinema quality in your own home. The images that are recorded onto movie film at 24 frames per second (fps) are reproduced at four times that speed by 24p Cinematic Playback.

Great news - I think the V-Series at 2" and an extremely affordable price tag (under $2,500 will be the street price) along with full 1080/1080 motion will be the one to watch this year, given that the Z-Series will be twice as expensive it'll be as unattainable for most as the XBR8 from Sony.

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Although not listed as having 24p native reproduction, the manual for the new G-Series of Viera plasma's shows that there is a setting for 24p input - it can be set at either 48Hz or 60Hz, using 2:2 pulldown. 60Hz is the default setting.



The V-Series and Z-Series will use 96Hz, or 4:4 pulldown.




Great news - I think the V-Series at 2" and an extremely affordable price tag (under $2,500 will be the street price) along with full 1080/1080 motion will be the one to watch this year, given that the Z-Series will be twice as expensive it'll be as unattainable for most as the XBR8 from Sony.

So 4:4 pulldown produces less flicker than 2:2 pulldown right?

[jkwest]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

When Sony came out with the KDS-60A3000 it was their first and last rear projector that correctly refreshed 1080p/24 at 96HZ. 60HZ material is refreshed at 120HZ....

I am so glad I got me one before they disappeared.

I love it.

[gekke henkie]

Today, Sony decided to post all relevant info on their website regarding the models below. The documents that mention the inclusion of the Motion enhancer (Motionflow) are: the Specifications sheet, the Reference Book (hidden under 'Using the Picture Menu'), and the Operating manual. For the KDL-32XBR9, for example, see:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/mod...?mdl=KDL32XBR9

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

4 New Sony 1080P LCD Flat Panels have been added to the list

According to Sony's specs listed on the official Sony Style website the following 4 TV's all have 120HZ with motion flow (also sometimes called motion enhancer). According to all the reliable reviews when 120HZ motion flow is turned off a 1080p/24 signal will be displayed correctly using 5:5 pulldown on the Sony displays.

Displays just added to the list (click on model numbers to see spec sheet)

KDL-52V5100

KDL-46V5100

KDL-40V5100

KDL-32XBR9

[...]

[HDTV1080P]

LG 47LG90 47 INCH 1080P LED LCD Flat Panel (April/May 2009 review).

The LG 47LG90 is LG's current top of the line flat panel screen that properly displays 1080p/24 signals at 120HZ (5:5 pulldown) when Truemotion is off and Real Cinema is turned on. This 47LG90 also has better blacks and shadow detail compared to other standard LCD screens thanks to the LED backlit LCD technology. Its list price is $3,900. The Sony XBR8 series and Samsung A950 series have a better picture quality compared to the 47LG90.

Here are some quotes from the Sound and Vision April/May 2009 review

"It can also show 1080p/24-format signals from your Blu-ray Disc player with a straight 5:5 pulldown to hit its 120-Hz frame rate."


"And I found that the TruMotion anti-judder processing made the action in film-based programs look unnatural at both its High and Low settings, with the High mode sometimes introducing a slight picture break-up."


"As anticipated, the LG 47LG90’s local-dimming feature helped deliver satisfying black levels in The Dark Knight’s nighttime scenes. Shadow detail was very good. When I scrutinized a shot where Batman prepares to abduct Lau (Chin Han) from his high-rise office at night, I could easily make out details in the Caped Crusader’s black suit as he crouched in the darkness. But I also noted an occasional “halo” effect in pictures where a bright white object appeared against a black background, such as movie titles and the Jupiter Mission scenes from 2001: A Space Odyssey. This effect stems from the local dimming.With high-contrast shots like those found in 2001, the backlight processing sometimes falls short of crisply resolving stark black/white transitions. (To put things in perspective, I also saw this issue on a Sony XBR8 LCD that I recently tested, though to a lesser degree. And 2001 notwithstanding, I rarely found myself distracted by it.)"


"BOTTOM LINE
With its 47LG90, LG brings a reasonably priced offering to the still dauntingly expensive LED-backlit LCD TV scene. Although I was disappointed by this set’s intrusive edge enhancement, which limited its overall picture resolution, its accurate color, wide-ranging picture adjustments, and strong contrast — even at off-center seats — make it a compelling flat-panel TV option for those inclined to choose LCD over plasma."

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/3134/lg-47lg90-47-inch-lcd-hdtv.html

[HDTV1080P]

The following new Samsung LCD flat panels have been added to list number 2

According to the Samsung spec sheets all the new Samsung 1080P LCD flat panels with LED backlighting use Auto Motion Plus (AMP). When AMP is turned off on a 120HZ Samsung LCD or Samsung LCD with LED backlighting the 1080P/24 signal will be refreshed at multiplies of the original frame using the 5:5 pulldown method. These LCD flat panels are ultra slim at 1.2 inches deep and have a better picture quality compared to standard LCD flat panels.

LCD with LED backlighting (flat panel)

Samsung UN40B6000 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

Samsung UN46B6000 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

Samsung UN55B6000 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

Samsung UN46B7000 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

Samsung UN55B7000 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

Samsung UN46B7100 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

Samsung UN55B7100 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

[HDTV1080P]

Current in production 1080P/24 flat panel changes to list number 2

Important list number 2 update info

To make things easier and more organized list number 2 current in production 1080P/24 LCD displays are organized in 2 different categories .

1. Standard LCD (flat panel)
2. LCD with LED backlighting (flat panel)

[HDTV1080P]

Samsung UNB8000 240HZ LCD with LED backlighting

The Samsung UNB8000 LCD with LED backlighting that suppose to use 240HZ refresh rate to greatly improve LCD motion blur issues will not be added to the list yet. It is unknown at this time if the display will perform a 10:10 pulldown for 1080p/24 signals. I am waiting for a professional review on both the Sony and Samsung 240HZ LCD displays before adding them to the list. Most likely these displays in theory will bypass 3:2 pulldown when 1080p/24 is received.

Samsung website is hard to understand

If one visits the Samsung website you will see a new category added called "LED TV" along with the old "LCD TV" category. What is confusing is that when clicking on the "LED TV" category it does not mention the word LCD in the features and specs. Then the Samsung "LCD TV" category has the A950 series LCD with LED backlighting. Samsung should be calling the category "LCD TV with LED backlight". Some people think that the new Samsung TV's are not LCD TV's but "LED TV's". After further research from a third party source one will discover that the new Samsung TV's are really just LCD TV's with LED backlighting. I must admit I thought Samsung had a new technology that replaced LCD with LED for a few hours since the website does not mention the new TV's are really LCD's with LED backlighting. At least CNET provides the correct information. The old A950 series that are LCD with LED backlighting are listed in the "LCD TV" category away from the "LED TV" category for some reason. There is no such thing as a "LED TV", there is DLP and LCD displays that use LED backlighting to improve on contrast and colors.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10133696-100.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave

"LED TV" should really be called LCD with LED backlighting
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subty pe=ledtv&model_cd=UN55B7100WFXZA

[HDTV1080P]

Pioneer Kuro info

Here are some quotes from the March/April Widescreen review magazine regarding Pioneer leaving the Plasma business. In a few years Panasonic might have a KURO plasma that is the same or better quality compared to existing 9th generation Pioneer Kuro's. Only time will tell when and if this occurs.

Quotes (From page 8 and 10 of March/April Widescreen Review magazine)

"Toyko-based Pioneer, undeniably the performance technology leader in the plasma display panel (PDP) field, and the fourth-largest maker of plasma HDTVs, announced on February 12 that it will end HDTV productuion..."

"All further development of Pioneer HDTV technology-including the state-of-the-art KURO plasma line (widely regarded as the best-in-class plasma available)- will cease immediately, and plant closings will follow in April, with no new product launches beyond what are currently in the market."

"As a result of Pioneer's decisions, Panasonic now benefits by reportedly hiring 200 of Pioneer's best PDP engineers, even though Panasonic itself has announced that it is cutting or reassigning up to 15,000 of its workforce and delaying panel production at its state-of-the-art Himeji Plant near Osaka. Panasonic, which is the market leader in plasma HDTVs, has a huge stake in plasma technology and certain to gain even more market share with Pioneer out of the picture. Hopefully, Panasonic will pursue developing and launching the next generation of KURO displays. Panasonic now has the opportunity to introduce new plasma models that will raise the bar for HDTV performance and force other manufacturers to play catch-up. No HDTV sold today can display true blacks, compared to the best CRT technology. Pioneer has shown prototypes that rival CRT black levels. Panasonic now has Pioneer's former PDP team onboard and, hopefully, Panasonic will deliver a true-black PDP HDTV in the near future."

[HDTV1080P]

King of the Kuro's: Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-141FD 1080P Plasma HD Monitor

(April 2009 Home Theater magazine review link)

The absolute best quality flat panel display currently available.

Thomas J Norton has written an excellent review on the Pioneer PRO-141FD flat screen plasma monitor. I have personally spent many hours with the Pioneer PRO-141FD and will briefly add some of my own comments before quoting on a few highlights from the review.

The Pioneer PRO-141FD will accept a 1080p/24 signal and automatically refresh the image on the screen at 72HZ regardless of menu settings. This is a ideal feature to have for BLU-RAY owners. The Pioneer will also detect 3:2 pulldown from film based sources that are 480I, 480P, 720P, and 1080I and will upconvert the image to 1080P at 72HZ by doing a reverse 3:2 pulldown.

The PRO-141FD Elite Signature monitor is Pioneers best plasma screen that they have every made.The PRO-141FD Elite Signature monitors are 100% engineered in Japan and assembled in the United States using a combination of USA and imported parts. The PRO-141FD Elite Signature monitor is even better quality when compared to the standard Elite PRO-151FD. For the average consumer the Pioneer PRO-151FD is a better choice since it includes a built in amp with speakers, tuners, and a stand all for $6,500 list price. The PRO-141FD monitor has a list price of $7,000 but does not have any speakers, no amp, no tuners, and no table top stand included. Not including those items in the engineering design keeps the price of the PRO-141FD lower. If the PRO-141FD were to included speakers, internal amp, tuners, and a table top stand the list price would be somewhere between $8,000-$10,000.

For those that purchase the PRO-141FD that lists for $7,000 one will also need to purchase a Pioneer KRP-TS01 table top stand that has a list price of $400 or a Pioneer KRP-WM01 Ultra Slim Wall Mount for $350. Since Pioneer is leaving the display business one can now purchase from some mail order companies a PRO-141FD with the KRP-TS01 table top stand for around $5,024 delivered which is a clearance price. Perhaps if one shops around even a better price can be found until all the Pioneer displays are gone.

Since this PRO-141FD is a monitor only a HD cable box or HD satellite receiver needs to be purchased or rented. For those that prefer free over the air local digital broadcasts a ATSC tuner needs to be purchased with this model. A Surround Sound system or Stereo system is required to hear any audio with the PRO-141FD 60 inch or PRO-101FD 50 inch monitor.

The Home Theater magazine review mentions that there is a HDMI incompatibility problem when using a Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC and the PRO-141FD. When I connected the Pioneer PRO-141FD up to a Motorola 6416 HD DVR that was provided by Verizon FIOS I experienced no problems using HDMI. I also connected a Sony BDP-S350 BLU-RAY player with no HDMI problems. I then connected two JVC HM-DT100U's 1080I D-VHS machines and still had no problems using HDMI. So far every HDMI device I tried works fine with the PRO-141FD.

The PRO-141FD has 4 HDMI 1.3 inputs, 1 DVI with HDCP, 1 component, 1 composite input. As a cost cutting measure there is no legacy 480I S-Video input. Also it would have been ideal to have 2 component video inputs instead of just 1 component input. Of course since a A/V surround sound receiver is required for audio one needs to make sure they purchase a A/V receiver with plenty of S-Video and component video inputs that output to HDMI.

Main advantages of the Elite Signature series


The PRO-141FD and PRO-101FD is mainly designed for someone that has a dedicated home theater room. The main advantages of the PRO-141FD and PRO-101FD Elite Signature series monitors have that the standard Pioneer Elite and non Elite HDTV's lack are the following:


1. Worldwide signal support: Including PAL & SECAM

2. Expanded picture setup controls (example: 5 gamma settings and Blue only mode)

3. Hand inspected and certified parts for the highest quality picture. Each monitor is completely tested by a human before leaving the factory.

4. Ultra thin only 2.5 inches thick.

The Pioneer PRO-141FD was released in November of 2008 and is the new reference quality display that all other displays are compared too. Perhaps in 2 or 3 years someone will make a display that has the same or better picture quality compared to the Pioneer PRO-141FD.

Some highlights from the April 2009 Home Theater review:

"If the program material is already 1080p/24, as is the case with films on Blu-ray, the set automatically converts it to 1080p/72, regardless of the PureCinema/Film Mode control’s setting."

"As in other Pioneer sets, the Film Mode (under PureCinema) tells the set how to display film- and video-sourced material. It automatically detects film-based sources and offers three options (plus Off). Standard (interlaced inputs) always feeds the panel 1080p at 60 frames per second. Advanced (all sources except 1080p/60) converts film-based material to a display rate of 72 frames per second (eliminating 3:2 pulldown where present). Smooth (all sources except 1080p/60) is an intermediate option, but I didn’t find it very useful."

"As I was finishing up this review, word arrived that Pioneer will exit the video display business. The economic climate, Pioneer’s premium prices, and the increasing market share of LCD displays combined to create a perfect storm that the company could not overcome. Pioneer panels will continue to be available through the end of 2009, including the Elite Signature Series monitors."

"Why would we bother to review this model? First of all, the review was nearly in the can when the news broke. More importantly, the Pioneer Kuros are, in my opinion, the finest one-piece high-definition displays that have yet been made available to the consumer. While it isn’t perfect (what is?), the PRO-141FD is, by a hair’s breadth, the king of the Kuros."

"What do you get in the Signature PRO-141FD that the similarly sized, non-Signature Elite PRO-151FD lacks? First of all, Pioneer designed the PRO-141FD to be both network- and installer-friendly. While I didn’t exercise these features for the review, they let you connect the set to your home network and provide remote access to the set’s controls. The PRO-141FD’s Ethernet connection allows for on-site access to the setup and calibration controls via computer."

"The Signature Series also offers finer gradations to many of the existing controls—and it also adds a few new ones. For me, the most useful were the five gamma settings (versus three for the standard Elites) and the Blue-only mode, which makes for easier and more precise setup of the Color and Tint controls. (The blue filters normally used for this aren’t always accurate.)"

"The onscreen menus have also been reorganized. For example, all of the Pro Adjust menu options are arranged on a single menu. Now you can see all of the controls and their settings at once. In the non-Signature Elite sets, they’re in five different submenus, which can be tedious to work through."

"Pioneer carefully selects the Signature Series panels and runs them in at the factory. This results in tighter tolerances than even those of the standard Elite models. Of course, one could ask whether tighter tolerances for a premium product result in better visible performance, or if variations in the home environment (including the quality of setup and calibration) will swamp the differences. Fair enough, but it’s reassuring to know that a Signature Series set is as good as an Elite can be."

"The programmable (and learning) multi-component remote is a good one. It includes backlighting and selection buttons for each input. Some of the buttons are a little small, but I had no other complaints."

"The Pioneer was even better with the best Blu-ray Discs. Its most striking quality, which it hinted at with the finest cable stations, is a remarkable illusion of depth. This wasn’t the gimmicky depth you see in 3-D movies or the dreary televised 3-D experiments. (Even on the Pioneer, the 3-D trailer for Monsters vs. Aliens that aired during the Super Bowl looked grim.) Instead, this had a believable depth that you could watch all day without getting a headache. The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian on Blu-ray had it. So did Baraka; its jaw-dropping images compensated for its sleep-inducing pace."

"That depth comes from a combination of factors: spot-on color, exceptional resolution, and a comfortable (but not excessive) brightness level. But the most important contribution is Pioneer’s industry-leading black levels. Yes, local-dimming LCDs are starting to make inroads, but for overall performance on dark scenes, nothing can beat a Pioneer Kuro. And make no mistake: The better the blacks, the better the subjective image depth, even on bright scenes. The deeper the blacks, the firmer the foundation for all material, from the darkest to the brightest."

"Some people (particularly competitors) have argued that Pioneer’s near-black levels are too dark and obscure shadow detail. I don’t agree. If you raise the properly calibrated black level on a Pioneer, it will sometimes reveal a few details that you couldn’t see otherwise, but you can also argue that you aren’t supposed to see them. When it was properly adjusted, this set never lost important, dark-scene visual information."

"Conclusion
The Pioneer Kuros may soon be gone, but videophiles—Kuro owners or not—will not forget them. Hopefully Pioneer will license the Kuro secret sauce to another company to live again in another guise. But whether that happens directly or not, other manufacturers who genuinely seek to provide consumers with the best performance will take a very close look at what Pioneer has accomplished in its last, and sadly final, generation of sets. Their challenge will be to bring their own sets’ performance up to where Pioneer left off—and beyond. Hopefully the competition to be not only the cheapest, but the best, will drive that effort.
Whatever happens in that regard, we all owe a debt to every member of the Pioneer team who was involved in engineering and building the Kuro plasmas. They significantly advanced the state of the art in modern flat-panel displays. They all have much to be proud of."

HT Labs Measures

"Full-On/Full-Off Contrast Ratio: 33,500:1"

"The full-on/full-off contrast ratio above (sometimes referred to as the peak contrast ratio, the sequential contrast ratio, or the dynamic range) is about as good as it gets. The black level shown here was the most conservative reading taken. With a black image, you can still see some illumination on the screen, but it is extremely dim and difficult to measure. I took 20 full-screen black-level readings. Eighteen of them measured 0.000, and two measured 0.001—the lowest reading possible with our Minolta LS-100 light meter."

The entire review can be read at the following link:

http://hometheatermag.com/flat-panels/pioneer_elite_kuro_pro-141fd_plasma_hd_monitor/index.html

[HDTV1080P]

Sharp Aquos LC-52XS1U-S Limited Edition 1080P LCD LED HDTV

(April 2009 review links)

The Sharp AQUOS LC-65XS1U-S and LC-52XS1U-S are Sharps top of the line LCD Flat Panels that uses LED backlighting and local dimming. Both displays are exactly the same quality with the only difference being screen size, weight, and dimensions.

When a 1080P/24 signal is received on a Sharp that contains "Fine Motion Enhanced" the image is refreshed on the screen at 96HZ using the repeated frame method without interpolation of new frames (4:4 pulldown). Sharp is the only LCD flat panel manufactory that currently automatically displays 1080P/24 correctly at multiplies of the original frame regardless of menu settings. All the other LCD flat panel brands on the list one needs to make sure the menu settings are set correctly in order to display 1080P/24 correctly similar to the way a film projector does. 60HZ material is displayed at 120HZ on the 120HZ Sharp displays. Also when film mode is turned on the Sharps in theory should automatically detect 3:2 pulldown material from standard DVD, cable, and satellite film based material and convert the 60HZ material to 96HZ using a reverse 3:2 pulldown process.

According to the two professional reviews the Sharp LC-52XS1U-S does not have as good as picture quality as the current 9th generation Elite Pioneer Kuro's. The Pioneer 9th generation displays have better detail in dark scenes when compared to the top of the line Sharp's. Also the Pioneer Kuro's can be viewed off angle where as the Sharp the image begins to fade noticeable at angles as small as 10 or 20 degrees. Of course the Pioneer Kuro's are no longer in production and supplies are limited since the US Pioneer factory closes in April 2009.The Sony XBR8 series is widely considered by many professional reviewers as the second best flat panel just under the quality level of the Pioneer. The Sony XBR8 outperformed the Sharp LC-52XS1U-S in overall picture quality and has deeper blacks compared to the Sharp. What makes matters worse is the 65 inch Sharp LC-65XS1U-S has a list price of $16,000 ($15,999.99 actual) and the 52 inch Sharp LC-52XS1U-S has a list price of $12,000. The list price of the 60 inch Pioneer PRO-141FD is $7,000 and the PRO-151FD $6,500. The list price of the Sony 55 inch KDL-55XBR8 is $7,000. With the Pioneer and Sony having a better picture quality compared to the Sharp and the fact the price is several thousand dollars cheaper it is hard for anyone to recommended the current top of the line 65 inch and 52 inch Sharp LCD with LED backlighting displays.

Quotes from review links:

"Fine Motion Enhanced is Sharp’s 120-hertz motion-compensation feature. It produces an additional, interpolated frame for all input sources other than 1080p/24. Fine Motion Enhanced does not operate with a 1080p/24 source; the set displays such sources at a 96-fps frame rate by repeating (not interpolating) the extra frames."

"I rarely used Fine Motion Enhanced, but it did noticeably smooth out motion blur (depending on its speed) without making film-based material look totally like video. This is a failing of many such systems."

" Unlike LED-backlit LCDs that use white LEDs with color filters, Sharp uses red, green, and blue LEDs in the Limited Edition sets. According to Sharp, RGB LEDs provide a much larger color gamut than white LEDs—150 percent of the NTSC gamut in the case of the LC-52XS1."

"Black levels and shadow detail were also excellent if a bit short of the best I’ve seen. Details in dark scenes didn’t pop quite as impressively as they do with the current state-of-the-art Pioneer plasmas I’ve reviewed. Also, fades to black weren’t as deep as they are on Sony’s XBR8 local-dimming LCD sets. On some material, when a mostly dark or completely black scene followed a lighter one, the blacks were initially mid-gray. They took a second or two to dim to a deeper black. But this wasn’t common, and overall I don’t think anyone will be disappointed with this set’s rich blacks and impressive contrast."

"At one point, I saw a flickering blue discoloration in one corner of the screen—likely an unstable LED. But it cleared when I turned the Sharp off and then on again. That’s the only time this occurred in the 30-plus hours I spent with this set."

"One of the most nagging problems with LCDs is the way their performance degrades as you move off axis. The image begins to fade noticeably at angles as small as 10 or 20 degrees (depending on the set and the viewer). It continues to wash out gradually as you move farther to the sides, until all you see at an extreme angle are pale pastel colors. Unfortunately, the LC-52XS1U-S also has this problem. While you can check this in a store demo, be aware that the ultra-bright settings in retail showrooms tend to minimize its visibility."

"When I finally set up my calibration gear, I got a puzzling surprise. As I suspected from my initial look at the set, the Low setting of the Color Temp control was a bit high (tinted toward blue). It hovered at around 7000K across most of the brightness range rather than the 6500K/D6500 target. It rose even higher at low brightness levels."

"But when I tried to tweak the results with the set’s red, green, and blue white-balance controls, I found that they had little effect. When I turned the blue control to its minimum setting (–30, with an overall range of –30 to +30), the color temp dropped only slightly. The red and green controls either had no effect or, at some settings, threw off the color temperature even more."

"Sharp suspected a defective AVC and sent me another sample to use with the same panel. But the new one was worse than the first. At its Low Color Temp setting, the measurements approached 8000K at peak white (100 IRE). Also like the first box, the white-balance controls had minimal effect. The other fixed Color Temp settings were even worse, rising to a ridiculous 35,000K on High."

"I quickly went back to the original controller. The best result I could get (shown in the measurement section) isn’t terrible, but we’ve done much better than this with a number of far cheaper sets."

"Wrapping It Up"

"I’d be lying if I said this set didn’t produce a great picture. It offers deep blacks and shadow detail that are beyond the capability of all but a few other sets on the market. It also has excellent video processing, and resolution to die for. On the final evening of my testing, I watched much of King Kong and The Incredible Hulk on Blu-ray, plus parts of the Academy Award HD broadcast and a high-definition rerun of a Stargate: Atlantis episode. They all confirmed my previous impressions of the set. Apart from that slight blue color shift, I had no subjective complaints. On the contrary, the set’s picture was consistently compelling."

"The average viewer will likely be delighted with practically every aspect of this set’s performance, even the color. But while the off-axis viewing angle may simply be an intractable issue with LCDs for the present, I can’t gloss over the fact that the lowest color temperature setting was well removed from the D6500 standard. I also can’t ignore the lack of usable color adjustments, the differences in the two controller boxes Sharp sent me, or the oversaturated color gamut in either of the available options."

"I can forgive these shortcomings (to a degree) in a popularly priced set. But for $12,000, a buyer deserves a set that can be made as accurate as the state of the art allows. I didn’t see that here. Until I do, in spite of the many things I appreciate about its image quality, I can’t recommend the Sharp LC-52XS1U-S."

Two professional review links

http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/sharp_lc-52xs1u-s_lcd_flat_panel/index.html

http://hometheatermag.com/flat-panels/sharp_aquos_lc-52xs1u-s_limited_edition_lcd_hdtv/index.html

[HDTV1080P]

From Shutter to judder (May 2009 Home Theater magazine article)

On pages 26-28 of the May 2009 Home Theater magazine is an article written by Thomas J. Norton regarding motion enhancers and the 3:2 pulldown judder process. 24fps produces an unwatchable flicker and no theater or consumer display outputs 24HZ to the screen. In the movie theater 35mm and 70mm film is encoded at 24 fps and flashed on the screen at 48Hz,72Hz, or higher multiplies of 24. Even at 48Hz or higher a small amount of flickering is sometimes noticeable on a movie theater screen and TV screens. The 48HZ 1080P consumer Front Projectors have a flicker that is not that noticeable and is comparable to movie theater film projectors that flashes images at 48HZ. But the problem with some flat panel screens that use 48HZ is that since they have a lot brighter screen compared to a Front Projector a noticeable flicker on the screen can be seen. On some brands and models of flat screens that have a flicker at 48HZ, some consumers have been able to reduce the flicker by lowering the brightness of the flat panel and watching it in a darker room with less brightness. This flicker can be reduced or eliminated when higher multiplies of the original frame is flashed on the screen with new and improved display technologies. In general the higher the HZ the better quality the image will be on the screen when comparing LCD screens to LCD screens. 120HZ LCD screens reduce motion blur issues compared to standard LCD screens when watching fast moving action movies. Some LCD manufactories are planning on releasing 240HZ and 480HZ screens that might do a 10:10 pulldown or 20:20 pulldown for 1080p/24 source material. When comparing Plasma screens to LCD screens, a 72HZ Plasma will match or beat the picture quality of a 240HZ LCD screen in the area of motion. LCD screens need 240HZ and 480HZ in order to reduce motion blur issues in order to have a comparable picture quality to the smooth film like quality of a 72HZ Plasma screen. Perhaps some of the new 240HZ or 480HZ LCD screens coming out with LED backlighting might offer the same or better picture quality compared to the best plasma screens. Only time will tell if LCD starts offering better picture quality when compared to high-end plasma flat panels. LCD screens keep improving in quality every year.

Here are a few select word for word quotes from the May 2009 Home Theater magazine (pages 26-28)

"The cost of replacing infrastructure will keep 3:2 pulldown in consumer video for the foreseeable future. But in the home video world, we can avoid the judder inherent in 3:2 pulldown with Blu-ray's progressive scan 1080p/24 film transfers. To take advantage of this, however, you need a set that accept and display 1080p/24."

"However, there's a problem with a direct 24-fps display. In the movie theater, the combination of this frame rate and the flashing shutter would cause obvious flicker. Theaters get around this by flashing each frame twice. Video display of a 24-fps source uses a similar technique. The set flashes each frame on the screen at a direct multiple of 24 fps. Some sets use 48 hertz (in this context, hertz and frames per second are interchangeable). But at this rate, the brightness of most HDTVs (far brighter than you'll see in any movie theater) can still produce visible flicker. For this reason, most 24-fps-capable sets use a higher multiple than 48Hz-72Hz,96Hz, or more."

"Do we recommend using 24 fps if your system supports it? Absolutely, except with those few sets operating at 48 Hz that shows flicker with a 24-fps input."

"Five times 24 fps equals 120 fps. If that number sounds familiar, it's because most LCD set manufactures now offer 120-Hz models. To fit the 24-fps source to 120-Hz display frame rate, the display flashes each frame five times. You'll often see this referred to as 5:5 pulldown."

"Manufacturers have even announced some new sets that take this concept a step or two further, operating at 240 Hz - or even 480 Hz."

"Instead of simply repeating frames as needed to get to 120 Hz, a video-processing algorithm analyses each pair of original frames and interpolates the frames to be placed between them." "But there is a more controversial aspect to this interpolation process. The increased motion smoothness can also remove the unique characteristics of film and make film-sourced material look like video. It can flatten out image depth, soften the picture, and add other artifacts as well, depending on how the manufacturer implements the process."

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic 800U and 850U series has been moved to the discontinued list (3 of 3)

From a very reliable source of mine I have learned that the Panasonic 800U and 850U series has been discontinued. The 800U and 850U were Panasonics first plasma displays to offer a true 1080p/24 mode that did a 2:2 pulldown of 48HZ. What was disappointing about these models was that every professional review published mentioned that the 48HZ mode had an "unwatchable flicker" or an annoying "flicker". This flicker problem at 48HZ was fixed or minimized with the Panasonic TH-65VX100U and TH-50VX100U. The 100U series is a 48HZ Plasma with "pseudo 96Hz" to minimize flicker.

[HDTV1080P]

The Panasonic G10 series 1080P flat panel Plasma's has been added to the list

(unwatchable flicker Issue at 48Hz)

In keeping with the tradition of adding any brand and model of display that refreshes 1080P/24 at correct refresh rates and avoids the 3:2 pull down process I have added the following displays to the current in production and coming soon list (list number 1).

Panasonic TC-P42G10 (48HZ)

Panasonic TC-P46G10 (48HZ)

Panasonic TC-P50G10 (48HZ)

Panasonic TC-P54G10 (48HZ)

Warning about the G10 series unwatchable flicker

Even though the Panasonic G10 has 48HZ refresh rates for 1080P/24 it should be noted that according to the CNET review and HD GURO review the Panasonic G10 series is unwatchable with an ignoring flicker when a 1080P/24 signal is received while using the 48HZ film mode. All 4 sizes of the G10 series displays have the exact same specs and the only difference is power consumption, weight, and dimensions. All these displays are THX certified. It amazes me that the 48HZ film quality mode has an unwatchable flicker and the THX certification is still given to the Panasonic displays. Every movie theater uses true 24fps at 48HZ, 72HZ or higher without this unwatchable flicker issue. THX should start looking at the 1080p/24 performance quality of a display before a display can be certified with the THX logo.

Panasonic spec sheet on the G10 series http://www.panasonic.com/apps/match-maker/assets/pdf/viera/pdp/2009_VIERA_G10_PDP_SpecSheet.pdf

Quote from CNET website on the G10 review
" The company also includes a "24p direct in" setting that's available when the TV detects a 1080p/24 source, typically from a Blu-ray Disc. As with the PZ800U and 850U models from last year, choosing the "48Hz" setting, as opposed to the standard 60Hz setting, causes the display to refresh at 48Hz to match the 24fps cadence of film. And as with last year's sets, selecting 48Hz on the G10 causes flicker--more intense in brighter areas, but visible pretty much constantly--that basically renders the image unwatchable. We don't expect any of the videophiles toward whom this setting is aimed to stand for the flicker, so we kept the G10 set to 60Hz. It's worth noting that the step-up V10 series refreshes at 96Hz, according to Panasonic, so the flicker shouldn't be a problem on those sets."
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50g10/4505-6482_7-33497901-2.html?tag=txt;page

Quote from HD Guru website on the G10 review

" The TCP50G1 accepts 1080p/24 signals that may be displayed at 48Hz or 60 Hz. Like last year’s TH50PZ850 reviewed here, the 48 Hz rate suffers from image flicker and is deemed unwatchable. Use the 60 Hz mode."
http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tcp50g10-50-plasma-review/416/

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

All these displays are THX certified. It amazes me that the 48HZ film quality mode has an unwatchable flicker and the THX certification is still given to the Panasonic displays. Every movie theater uses true 24fps at 48HZ, 72HZ or higher without this unwatchable flicker issue. THX should start looking at the 1080p/24 performance quality of a display before a display can be certified with the THX logo.

So what you're saying is that you don't think any display with only 60Hz should warrant THX certification? That amazes me. That's like saying no receivers should have gotten THX certification that didn't support dts:ma or something, ignoring just about everything else the receiver does.

Anyway, we watched scenes from several different 1080p24 Blu-ray discs on Saturday on a TC-P42G10 including Band of Brothers, Dave Matthews, Harry Potter 4, Run Lola Run, Cars, National Treasure 2, etc., and not once did anyone in the room deem the flicker as being unwatchable, in fact most people didn't even notice it until I told them to look about 2 feet to the side of the screen.

Of course trying to watch TV by looking 2 ft to the side of the screen is pretty much an "unwatchable" way to watch TV in the first place, no?

It's a shame that again you're jumping all over this "unwatchable flicker" issue with your giant red warnings because it looks like you're recommending people stay away from the TV because of one of the least important features, but hopefully most people will take the time to view it for themselves at the store and see that it's anything but unwatchable.

Let's completely ignore that the G10 is outperforming almost 95% of the sets you have listed on your front page in ANSI contrast, colour accuracy, motion resolution, deinterlacing and 3:2 detection testing, etc., etc., etc.

Comments about the G10 series

These are excellent sets, with extremely accurate colour points (hence the THX certification), three times the ANSI contrast of the -800 and -850 series, great black levels with magnificent black level detail and arguably rate amongst the top sets you can buy on the market today at such a low price.

Here's what else HD Guru said about this set that 1080p left out of his post:

Performance

This is where the G10 really shines. The TCP50G10 virtually nails the HDTV color standard (in the THX mode) with primary color points within .005 or less in the x and y axis of the Rec. 709 standard. In simple terms, many reviewers and videophiles feel compliance with the Rec. 709 HDTV color standard (used to master Blu-ray discs) is essential for excellent HDTV performance. The readings and 709 standard (for red, green and blue in parenthesis) are R= x.642, y.329 (x .64, y.33) G= x.299, y .605 (x .30, y .60) B= x .15, y.056 (x .15, y. 06). (Note the THX certified TH46PZ800 came close but was not as Rec. 709 accurate as the G10)

Another area of vast improvement over previous plasmas is its white level uniformity. The G10 brightness is far more consistent across the screen than the 2008 TH46PZ800 or Pioneer’s Pro 141FD (or many LCD flat panels). Ditto for white (color) uniformity. The Pioneer produces light pink tones in parts of the screen while viewing a full white raster pattern. The G10, though not perfect, only slightly deviates from pure white, a change that isn’t significant. You won’t be able to discern differences when viewing content such as a solid blue-sky scene.

Panasonic claims its NeoPDP panel design can output far higher light levels than previous plasma designs, so we put it to the test.

Using a 100 IRE window pattern, we verified Panasonic’s claim. In the THX mode with the user controls (including contrast) optimized, the TCP50G10 measured a very bright and comfortable 31 ft. lamberts. To achieve far higher brightness (needed for rooms with high ambient light levels) requires a simply change of the picture mode to Custom or Vivid mode and an increase of the contrast control.

With the contrast control set to 100% and the picture control set to Vivid, the G10 produced a retina searing maximum brightness of 92.2 ft lamberts (using the same window pattern). This is the highest level we’ve measured on any plasma and is comparable to many LCD models. Viewing HD content with the contrast control maxed out confirmed the G10 is capable of producing an image so intense, it’s uncomfortably bright.

In the past, LCDs were the only recommended flat panel technology for high ambient light environments, not any more. This display can provide high image brightness along superb motion resolution, wide viewing angles and excellent color.

Most LCDs panels use fluorescent lamps (called CCFLs) as the light source. To increase light output, the lamps output must be raised with the TVs backlight control, often resulting in muddy blacks and lower contrast ratios. Plasmas generates its own light (like a CRT), maintaining deep blacks while raising the light level. With arrival of the TCP50G10, you can use plasma in brightly lit rooms that previously required an LCD panel.

After resetting the user controls to their optimum position in the THX mode, signal processing evaluations were made using the Silicon Optix standard and high def HQV Benchmark test discs. The results? This Panasonic aced the 3:2 pulldown HD test (a first for a Panasonic consumer HDTV) as well as the SD 3:2 test, jaggies 1 test, noise reduction and 1080i deinterlacing tests, besting last year’s model and the Pioneer plasma as well.

The G10 conquered the motion resolution test as well, scoring a perfect 1080 lines (Per Picture Height) using the FPD Motion Resolution test disc, again besting last year’s TH46PZ800 and the Pioneer Pro-141. Those plasmas measured just fewer than 900 lines (PPH). By comparison, 120 Hz LCD flat panels typically measure around 600 lines PPH.

Black levels on the G10, Z800 and the Pioneer’s 60” Pro-141 are below my test equipment’s accuracy. However, the Pioneer’s black is deepest, followed by the new G10 with the Z800 coming in last. The deeper blacks of the Pioneer come at a cost. The Pioneer obscures details in some dark scenes where the G10 revealed every nook and cranny using the same dark content.

I guess that's why it got THX certification?!

Anyone would be a fool to ignore these sets based on 48Hz performance and anyone who thinks a sets 24p performance is more important than just about any other measurement of a TV's performance is kidding themselves. Flicker bother you? Put it in 60Hz mode, you're still outperforming the majority of other sets on the market.

[Sonny]

Dobyblue: "Of course trying to watch TV by looking 2 ft to the side of the screen is pretty much an "unwatchable" way to watch TV in the first place, no?"
I love this, I almost....ya I did just a little (pissed my pants).

[gomo657]

what about the ph or pf11uk? I like the simplicity of these vs the consumer models.

from the manual

"This function sets the refresh rate of the display.
This menu is displayed when the input signal is 50 Hz system (50i, 50p, 25p, 24p, 24sF) of vertical scan rate.
100 Hz: Reduce screen fl icker.
50 Hz: Enhance the resolution of moving images.
Note:
It is recommended to set to 100 Hz normally"

[HDTV1080P]

Pioneer Elite PRO-141FD Plasma Monitor
( UltimateAVmag.com review link)

Here is a April 2009 review link that was just posted at UltimateAVmag.com website on the best Pioneer Plasma monitor every made. The Pioneer PRO-141FD was released in November of 2008 and properly displays 1080p/24 signals at 72HZ. In fact every Pioneer plasma model every made that offers a 1080p/24 input feature refreshes the image correctly on the screen at 72HZ with no 3:2 pulldown. 2006 was the first year that Pionner offered a 1080P plasma. All 2006, 2007, and 2008 Pioneer 1080P plasmas models have a 1080p/24 input. Even the Pioneer 720P (offically 768P) models in 2006 and 2007 offered a 1080p/24 input with 720P (offically 768P) images being refreshed at 72HZ (The image would be downconverted to 768P at 72HZ. Pioneer's 768P at the time had a better picture quality compared to all other brands of 1080P's on the market due to the details in the contrast ratios and black levels) A 768P Pioneer in 2008 won the face off against all other 1080P flat panels. The following is a reference link to the 768P quality claim. http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index7.html.

"If the program material is already 1080p/24, as is the case with films on Blu-ray, the set automatically converts it to 1080p/72, regardless of the PureCinema/Film Mode control’s setting."

"Advanced (all sources except 1080p/60) converts film-based material to a display rate of 72 frames per second (eliminating 3:2 pulldown where present)."

http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/pioneer_elite_pro-141fd_plasma_monitor/index.html

[urbo73]

Do you know if the Samsung LNXXB610/630/640/650 refresh correctly at 120Hz with 5:5 pulldown when AMP is off? I personally have the 32" LN32B640 (similar to LN32B650 minus a USB port and Internet connectivity), and would like to know how to tell if a 120Hz set like mine is doing 3:2 and then 2:2 (6:4) instead of 5:5. I suppose one way to test is to see if there is reduced judder when playing the Blu-ray at 1080/24p then when at 1080/60p. But what are some good judder tests? Or do you know the answer to my general question above? Why haven't the B Samsung's been included?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by urbo73

Do you know if the Samsung LNXXB610/630/640/650 refresh correctly at 120Hz with 5:5 pulldown when AMP is off? I personally have the 32" LN32B640 (similar to LN32B650 minus a USB port and Internet connectivity), and would like to know how to tell if a 120Hz set like mine is doing 3:2 and then 2:2 (6:4) instead of 5:5. I suppose one way to test is to see if there is reduced judder when playing the Blu-ray at 1080/24p then when at 1080/60p. But what are some good judder tests? Or do you know the answer to my general question above? Why haven't the B Samsung's been included?

Any BLU-RAY movie disc with a lot of camera pans is a good disc to compare 3:2 pulldown judder to 5:5 pulldown. Switching the BLU-RAY player between 1080p/24 and 1080p/60 like you mentioned is another way to compare 3:2 pulldown to no 3:2 pulldown. There are no consumer test discs that test for this true 1080p/24 feature on displays.

Thanks for bringing to my attention the new 2009 B series standard LCD TV's that are not on the list. All Samsung models that offer both 120HZ with Auto Motion Plus (AMP) will perform a 5:5 pulldown when AMP is turned off and a 1080p/24 signal is received. I did not see the LN32B640 on the Samsung website and I think it might be a Best Buy exclusive. As long as it has AMP and 120HZ it will do 5:5 pulldown. I will be adding some more standard 120HZ LCD Samsungs to the list soon to keep the list current with the latest models. I am waiting for a official professional review on the Samsung 240HZ LCD screens with 2ms response time before adding them to the list. I just want to make sure the displays do a 10:10 pulldown when AMP is turned off before placing them on the list. Also hopefully the 240HZ Sony models might soon be added to the list after a professional review verifies how 1080P/24 signals operate on them.

Searching the Internet the LN32B640 is exclusive to Best Buy as far as I can tell. The specs on Best Buy website says 120HZ with AMP. All 120HZ Samsungs use the exact same process when AMP is turned off. True 5:5 pulldown at 120HZ.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1218076081107