3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate - Page 54 - Blu-ray Forum

HDTV1080P · 09-29-2012, 04:15 AM

The Sony KDL-55HX850 3-D LCD has a annoying flicker even at 120Hz (60Hz) each eye

(Home Theater magazine review)

I was very surprised to read that when motionflow is turned off (frame interpolation switched off), the Sony KDL-55HX850 has clearly visible and annoying flicker even at 120Hz (60Hz 3:2 pulldown for each eye). Most people do not see flicker at 120Hz in 3-D and only have problems with the 3-2 pulldown judder issue for each eye when 3-D programs are displayed at 120Hz. This new Sony LCD is the first time that I have heard a 3-D set having major flicker issue at 120HZ. It’s too bad manufactories do not use a minimum of 144Hz for 3-D like all single light source commercial theaters use to eliminate the flicker. According to the Home Theater magazine review, when frame interpolation is on (Motionflow on) the flicker goes away except for the 2-D to 3-D conversion that needs further changes to the Motionflow to make the flicker issue disappear.

Quote

“In 3D, the Sony converts 24-frame-per-second sources to 60 fps using 3:2 pulldown. Whether for this reason or not, with Motionflow off in 3D, the set produced clearly visible, and annoying, flicker. Setting Motionflow to Standard eliminated this without any obvious soap-opera effect. But this change does not carry over to the set’s (moderately effective) 2D-to-3D conversion mode. For that mode, which also has the same flicker issue, you must switch Motionflow to Standard separately.”

http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-kdl-55hx850-3d-lcd-hdtv-page-2

HDTV1080P · 10-16-2012, 04:53 PM

Now Samsung is making LCD displays that are called Clear Motion Rate 240 but in reality the actual refresh rate is 120Hz with only the LED backlight being scanned at 240Hz.

The following are select quotes from the Sound and Vision magazine review:

“One of the only features found on this TV is called Clear Motion Rate 240. This is Samsung’s way of either obfuscating the actual refresh rate or offering consumers a more accurate description of the motion performance. I’ll let you decide, only biasing your conclusion by mentioning this is one of the first companies to actively push “LED TV” as a real thing. (There’s no such thing as an LED TV. They are actually LCD TVs with LED backlights.)”

“The actual refresh rate of the EH6000 is 120 Hz, but if you enable Clear Motion Rate 240’s LED Motion Plus mode, the backlight scans, decreasing motion blur somewhat without having to activate another, less desirable, feature of Clear Motion Rate 240, the frame-interpolating Auto Motion Plus mode (which adds a video-like “Soap Opera Effect” to film-based/24-fps images.”

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-samsung-un55eh6000-lcd-hdtv?page=0,0

HDTV1080P · 10-20-2012, 02:21 AM

VIZIO XVT3D580CM 3D LCD HDTV (58 INCH CinemaWide 120Hz LCD display)

** The very first native 2560 X 1080P flat screen display offered in the United States **

Only 540P for each eye instead of 1080P for each eye when in 3-D mode

No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode

VIZIO now offers two CinemaWide LCD displays in the United States that use edge lit LED's for lighting. A 58 inch XVT3D580CM and a 50 inch XVT3D500CM. The VIZIO CinemaWide 3-D LCD displays big disappointment occurs in the quality of its 3D image, which is why they will not be added to the list. Like all current flat screens on the market that use 3-D passive glasses technology, the VIZIO CinemaWide LCD displays only offer 540P quality for each eye instead of 1080P quality when watching frame packed Blu-ray 3-D movies. Another negative is the VIZIO CinemaWide 3-D LCD displays adds 3:2 pulldown 60Hz to each eye since the VIZIO CinemaWide native refresh rate is 120Hz (60Hz for each eye when the 3-D glasses are used). The ideal flat screen display should display frame packed 3-D Blu-ray images at 144Hz or 192Hz in order to offer Cinema quality frame rates.

The awesome feature of the VIZIO CinemaWide displays is the native 2560 X 1080P resolution with a 21:9 Aspect Ratio. All flat screen displays will always show black bars including the CinemaWide displays when watching native source material that does not match the ratio of the display. There is no getting around the black bar issue with flat screens unless one stretches and distorts the image to fit the screen. The advantage of the VIZIO CinemaWide displays is that when watching a 2:35:1 aspect ratio program there will not be any black bars at all.

The negative thing about the Blu-ray format is that the resolution of a 2:35:1 source image is only 1920 X 817P instead of 2560 X 1080P (640 x 263P is lost in the black bars on the Blu-ray format since there is no anamorphic CinemaWide feature in the Blu-ray specs). The Blu-ray format specs does not support native 2560 X 1080P resolution and it does not support anamorphic Widescreen for CinemaWide displays. So the problem is there is no native source material available at 2560 X 1080P to feed the VIZIO CinemaWide displays (also the maximum native input accepted by the VIZIO CinemaWide display is 1920 X 1080P). So the solution to this problem is that the VIZIO CinemaWide displays will upconvert all SD and HD 2:35:1 source images to 2560 X 1080P using special video processing that is unique. That means so called 1920 X 1080P Blu-ray’s that use 2:35:1 ratios are really 1920 X 817P Blu-rays when it comes to the actual image area. So what happens is the VIZIO CinemaWide display will get rid of the black bars completely on a 2:35:1 ratio 1920 X 817P Blu-ray by upconverting the image to 2560 X 1080P. With any upconversion process there can be some negative artifacts but overall according to the review for those consumers that want to get rid of black bars for Scope films the VIZIO does a fairly good upscaling to 2560 X 1080P. Another advantage of this 58 inch VIZIO CinemaWide display is that the list price is only $2,499.99. VIZIO is currently selling the 58 inch model on their website for only $1,999.99 with free shipping. The black levels on the VIZIO CinemaWide LCD displays with LED edgelit technology is not as good of quality when compared to some more expensive higher-end plasmas and LCD’s with LED backlighting. However the CinemaWide feature at a native resolution of 2560 X 1080P is an exclusive feature currently only offered by VIZIO in the United States. I am hoping more consumer electronics companies might also come out with higher-end CinemaWide displays that will offer deep black levels and a native 2560 X 1080P image. Of course with QUAD HD and 4K displays now starting to hit the market, consumers might forget about the CinemaWide feature for a while.

Hopefully in the future a 4K optical disc format might offer a anamorphic CinemaWide feature in its specs for those that want to watch scope movies at the full resolution with no black bars. Perhaps 4K CinemaWide flat screen displays might become a reality in the future.

The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review

“Apart from its wide aspect ratio, the CinemaWide set offers another major plus—a true pixel count of 2560 x 1080. That is, the set’s horizontal resolution is actually higher than the horizontal resolution of any standard HDTV. But the actual image area of a 2.35:1 movie in our 1920 x 1080 HD system is 1920 x 817; the rest of the vertical pixels are used for the black bars. The CinemaWide upconverts a 2.35:1 source in its native resolution of 2560 x 1080. Going by the latter, the XVT3D580CM’s true aspect ratio, while specified as 21:9 or 2.33:1, is actually 2.37:1—or 21.33:9.”

“Since the true resolution of the 2.35:1 source image is still 1920 x 817, this upconversion can’t actually increase the resolution. But it does produce a picture with a finer pixel structure. This alone should pay dividends, provided there’s a clean upconversion from 1920 x 817 to 2560 x 1080. The most obvious benefit of this is that you can sit closer to the screen. I did much of my viewing of this set from little more than 7 or 8 feet.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

steve1971 · 10-21-2012, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

VIZIO XVT3D580CM 3D LCD HDTV (58 INCH CinemaWide 120Hz LCD display)

** The very first native 2560 X 1080P flat screen display offered in the United States **

Only 540P for each eye instead of 1080P for each eye when in 3-D mode

No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode

VIZIO now offers two CinemaWide LCD displays in the United States that use edge lit LED's for lighting. A 58 inch XVT3D580CM and a 50 inch XVT3D500CM. The VIZIO CinemaWide 3-D LCD displays big disappointment occurs in the quality of its 3D image, which is why they will not be added to the list. Like all current flat screens on the market that use 3-D passive glasses technology, the VIZIO CinemaWide LCD displays only offer 540P quality for each eye instead of 1080P quality when watching frame packed Blu-ray 3-D movies. Another negative is the VIZIO CinemaWide 3-D LCD displays adds 3:2 pulldown 60Hz to each eye since the VIZIO CinemaWide native refresh rate is 120Hz (60Hz for each eye when the 3-D glasses are used). The ideal flat screen display should display frame packed 3-D Blu-ray images at 144Hz or 192Hz in order to offer Cinema quality frame rates.

The awesome feature of the VIZIO CinemaWide displays is the native 2560 X 1080P resolution with a 21:9 Aspect Ratio. All flat screen displays will always show black bars including the CinemaWide displays when watching native source material that does not match the ratio of the display. There is no getting around the black bar issue with flat screens unless one stretches and distorts the image to fit the screen. The advantage of the VIZIO CinemaWide displays is that when watching a 2:35:1 aspect ratio program there will not be any black bars at all.

The negative thing about the Blu-ray format is that the resolution of a 2:35:1 source image is only 1920 X 817P instead of 2560 X 1080P (640 x 263P is lost in the black bars on the Blu-ray format since there is no anamorphic CinemaWide feature in the Blu-ray specs). The Blu-ray format specs does not support native 2560 X 1080P resolution and it does not support anamorphic Widescreen for CinemaWide displays. So the problem is there is no native source material available at 2560 X 1080P to feed the VIZIO CinemaWide displays (also the maximum native input accepted by the VIZIO CinemaWide display is 1920 X 1080P). So the solution to this problem is that the VIZIO CinemaWide displays will upconvert all SD and HD 2:35:1 source images to 2560 X 1080P using special video processing that is unique. That means so called 1920 X 1080P Blu-ray’s that use 2:35:1 ratios are really 1920 X 817P Blu-rays when it comes to the actual image area. So what happens is the VIZIO CinemaWide display will get rid of the black bars completely on a 2:35:1 ratio 1920 X 817P Blu-ray by upconverting the image to 2560 X 1080P. With any upconversion process there can be some negative artifacts but overall according to the review for those consumers that want to get rid of black bars for Scope films the VIZIO does a fairly good upscaling to 2560 X 1080P. Another advantage of this 58 inch VIZIO CinemaWide display is that the list price is only $2,499.99. VIZIO is currently selling the 58 inch model on their website for only $1,999.99 with free shipping. The black levels on the VIZIO CinemaWide LCD displays with LED edgelit technology is not as good of quality when compared to some more expensive higher-end plasmas and LCD’s with LED backlighting. However the CinemaWide feature at a native resolution of 2560 X 1080P is an exclusive feature currently only offered by VIZIO in the United States. I am hoping more consumer electronics companies might also come out with higher-end CinemaWide displays that will offer deep black levels and a native 2560 X 1080P image. Of course with QUAD HD and 4K displays now starting to hit the market, consumers might forget about the CinemaWide feature for a while.

Hopefully in the future a 4K optical disc format might offer a anamorphic CinemaWide feature in its specs for those that want to watch scope movies at the full resolution with no black bars. Perhaps 4K CinemaWide flat screen displays might become a reality in the future.

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

Sorry but I will take the black bars and all on my HX750.

HDTV1080P · 10-21-2012, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve1971

Sorry but I will take the black bars and all on my HX750.

Now if Sony and other companies would offer native 2560 X 1080P 21:9 displays with deep black levels then some consumers would enjoy CinemaWide flat screens when watching their scope movies.

HDTV1080P · 10-30-2012, 10:11 PM

Panasonic TC-P50GT50 3-D Plasma (October 2012 Widescreen review magazine)

Unwatchable flicker when viewing standard 2-D 1080p/24 Blu-ray material at 48Hz

No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode

On page 12 and pages 14-17 of the October 2012 Widescreen review magazine, there is a review on the Panasonic GT50 series (TC-P50GT50). According to the review when the Panasonic GT50 series is placed in the 48Hz setting and a 1080p/24 signal is received the GT50 series has a unwatchable and extremely distracting flicker.

What is disappointing is that several professional reviews over several years have mentioned several times that the 48Hz setting on the Panasonic plasma displays are either unwatchable or have a ignoring flicker issue. These are reviews from magazines like Sound and Vision, Home Theater magazine, and Widescreen review magazine. This issue has been going on for a little over 4 years now with Panasonic and the 48Hz setting and it appears that Panasonic does not have any plans to offer 72Hz plasmas for their entire line like LG started doing in 2011.

The entire line of 2011 and 2012 LG plasma screens offer Real Cinema 3:3 pulldown at 72Hz for 1080p/24 2-D material. The top of the line VT series Panasonics also offers a 96HZ setting that is normally flicker free for most 2-D viewing. Panasonic should offer a 72Hz or 96Hz setting for their entire line of plasmas and consumers should not have to purchase the top of the line VT series in order to get Cinema quality frame rates without flicker (bright scenes sometimes has flicker at 96Hz according to a CNET review). All 3-D plasmas from LG, Samsung, and Panasonic use 100% active shutter glasses at the full 1080P resolution. Hopefully in the future one of those manufactories will make a 144fps plasma to match the Cinema 3-D frame rate instead of 120Hz with 3-2 pulldown for each eye.

The majority of consumers do not own a Blu-ray player yet and the consumers that do have a Blu-ray player just leave their Panasonic plasmas set at the factory default 60Hz setting with 3:2 pulldown issues. As more and more consumers purchase Blu-ray players and become familiar with how to properly display 1080p/24 signals at multiplies of the original frame rate then they will want to use features like 48Hz, 72Hz, and 96Hz that is found on many consumer displays.

The following is word for word quotes from page 16 of the October 2012 Widescreen Review magazine

“Setting 24p Direct in to 48 Hz proved to be unwatchable, with constant flickering that was extremely distracting. The 48 Hz setting for 24p Direct In is completely useless. The 24p Direct in setting should never be switched from 60Hz, unless you’re attempting to induce seizures.”

HDTV1080P · 12-18-2012, 02:42 AM

Sony XBR-55HX950 3D LCD HDTV (Home Theater magazine review)

“The XBR-55HX950 operates at a native refresh rate of 240 hertz”

** 3D frame packed 1080P sources produced a small but annoying flicker when Motionflow is turned off **

** 3-D mode has no 144fps, 192fps, or 240fps Digital Cinema mode **

The Sony HX950 series properly displays 2-D 1080p/24 material at 240Hz using a repeating frame method when both Motionflow and Smooth Gradation are turned off. Also the Sony HX950 series offers deep black levels and shadow detail that is better than the current generation of Panasonic plasma’s. Like all LCD screens the HX950 series is not as good as a plasma screen when it comes to off angle viewing. The Sony XBR-55HX950 and XBR-65HX950 is one of the best LCD’s with full LED-backlit local-dimming for the year 2012. The Sony HX950 series will not be added to the list since the way it handles 3-D frame packed Blu-ray material.

3-D flat panels came out in 2010 and at the end of 2012 there is still no 3-D flat screen on the market that offers a Cinema quality 3-D mode at a minimum of 144fps (72fps for each eye). 240Hz flat screen LCD panels still insert black frames between each real frame so the effective total output is really 120Hz in 3-D mode (60Hz for each eye). The ideal flat screen display should offer triple flash technology at 144fps or quad flash technology at 192fps with no black frame insertion.

So the Cinema quality frame rate list still only lists ceiling mounted Front Projectors in the range of around $50,000-$200,000 that offers both 2-D and 3-D frame rate performance that matches the commercial movie theaters. I hope that in the years to come a 144fps 3-D plasma or 144fps 3-D LCD flat screen will be released for under $10,000.

The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review

"Motionflow and Smooth Gradation fell in that latter category. They work together to provide varying degrees of motion smoothing, depending on their combined settings. If, like me, you hate the way frame interpolation makes your favorite films look like videotaped soap operas, you’ll also leave both of these features off. One exception: I found that 3D sources at 24 frames per second produced a small but annoying flicker. Setting Motionflow to Standard elim-inated this. Smooth Gradation is locked out in 3D, though it’s oddly accessible in the set’s 2D-to-3D conversion mode.”

“The XBR-55HX950 operates at a native refresh rate of 240 hertz, but its video processing, which includes Backlight Blinking and Backlight Scanning, is claimed to provide performance equivalent to a set with a native performance of 960 Hz. With Motionflow and Smooth Gradation turned off, the Sony simply repeats each frame as required to match its 240-Hz refresh rate.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

HDTV1080P · 12-21-2012, 10:54 PM

Samsung PN51E550D1F 3D Plasma HDTV will not be added to the list since it uses 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources

** 2-D 1080p/24 sources are properly displayed at 96Hz when film mode is set to Cinema Smooth **

** No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode **

The Samsung PN51E550D1F will properly display 2-D 1080p/24 source material at 96Hz by repeating each frame 4 times when the film mode is set for Cinema Smooth. What is disappointing about this Samsung plasma screen is that 3-D frame packed Blu-ray movies have a total refresh rate of 120Hz (instead of a total refresh rate of 144Hz or 192Hz). When the 3-D frame packed Blu-ray source material is unpacked by the displays video processor the native 3-D source becomes 48Hz, then the Samsung display adds 6:4 pulldown (3:2 pulldown judder for each eye) instead of repeating the 48Hz source 3 times. So all Samsung 3-D plasma screens on the market so far add 3:2 pulldown 60Hz for each eye when the active glasses are used.

The ideal plasma flat screen should use 144Hz triple flash technology or 192Hz quad flash technology to match the frame rate quality of the 3-D commercial theaters without the need for 3:2 pulldown for each eye (total pulldown 6:4).

The following is a select word for word quote from the Home Theater magazine review

“The PN51E550D1F refreshes at 60 hertz, 96 Hz, or 120 Hz. With Film mode set to Cinema Smooth, the Samsung displays 24-fps sources (most Blu-ray movies) at 4x their native refresh rate, or 96 Hz. The added frames are simply repeated. With a non24-fps source, the refresh rate is 60 Hz and the Film mode changes to one of its Auto settings. 3D playback, however, always uses 3:2 pulldown with 24-fps sources for a total refresh rate of 120 Hz (60 Hz at each eye).”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

HDTV1080P · 01-03-2013, 10:03 PM

LG 55LM8600 3D LCD HDTV will not be added to the list since it uses 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources

** 2-D 1080p/24 sources are properly displayed at 120Hz (5:5 pulldown repeating frame method) when TruMotion is turned off **

Only 540P for each eye instead of 1080P for each eye when in 3-D mode

No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode

The LG 55LM8600 properly displays 2-D 1080p/24 material at 120Hz by using the repeating frame method when TruMotion is turned off. What is disappointing about all flat panel screens on the market including the LG models is that a Cinema quality 144Hz triple flash mode or 192Hz quad flash mode does not exist. Instead the LG 55LM8600 adds 60Hz 3:2 pulldown judder to each eye when the 3-D glasses are active. Another big negative regarding this LG display is that in 3-D mode each eye only sees 540P 3-D images instead of 1080P 3-D images.

The ideal 1080P 3-D consumer flat panel in the future should offer both 1080P resolution for each eye and also a minimum of 144Hz for the best quality 3-D experience.

The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review

“The set’s native refresh rate is 120 hertz, but it simulates 240 Hz with a combination of scanning and modulating the LED lighting. The LG raises 24-Hz 2D sources to match its refresh rate either by repeating (TruMotion off) or interpolating (TruMotion on) the added frames as necessary. In 3D, however, 24-Hz sources undergo 3:2 pulldown, converting them to 60 Hz prior to display.”

“LG’s motion compensation system, TruMotion, can make film-based material look like video—a characteristic common to most such systems that smooth motion by interpolating new frames.”

“LG’s 3D technology uses light and inexpensive passive 3D glasses. The set comes with six pair. As with any of today’s passive 3D televisions, the resolution seen by each eye is reduced to 1920 x 540…”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

HDTV1080P · 02-05-2013, 08:24 PM

The Sony VPL-HW50ES 3D SXRD Front Projector will not be added to the list

The Sony VPL-HW50ES will properly display 2-D 1080p/24 material at 192Hz (8:8 pulldown) when Motionflow is turned off. Video based sources like 1080P/60 and 1080i/30 are displayed at 240Hz.

The Home Theater magazine review does not mention the frame rate for 3-D sources, however my theory is that when the active glasses are used for 3-D sources the Sony VPL-HW50ES uses 60 Hz for each eye (This needs to be verified and is only a theory). Most active glasses can handle a total frame rate of 96fps, 120fps, and 144fps. It would be awesome and ideal if a Front Projector could offer 192Hz or 240Hz for 3-D without using black frame insertion. Most likely the 240Hz Sony VPL-HW50ES when fed a frame packed Blu-ray 3-D movie will insert black frames in between each real frame and the total refresh rate becomes 120Hz (60Hz for each eye once the 3-D glasses are used).

The following are select quotes from Home Theater magazine review link:

“With a 2D 1080p/24 source, the projector operates at a refresh rate of 192 hertz. With a 1080p/60 source (or a 1080i/30 source deinterlaced to 1080p/60 either externally or by the projector), the VPL-HW50ES refreshes at 240 Hz. With Motionflow off, the extra frames required to reach these refresh rates are repeated. With Motionflow on, they are interpolated.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

HDTV1080P · 02-15-2013, 09:21 PM

Panasonic PT-AE8000U 3D LCD Projector will not be added to the list since it uses 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources

** 2-D 1080p/24 sources are properly displayed at 192Hz (8:8 pulldown repeating frame method) when Frame Creation is turned off **

No Cinema quality 144Hz, 192Hz, 240Hz, or 480Hz 3-D mode

3-D brightness quality issue

The Home Theater magazine review by mistake mentioned that the 2-D refresh rate for 1080p/24 sources when the Frame Creation feature is turned off is 196 hertz (In reality they meant to say 192Hz). So the Panasonic PT-AE8000U according to my understanding of the Home Theater magazine review offers a repeating frame 8:8 pulldown mode for 2-D 1080p/24 sources when the Frame Creation feature is turned off.

According to the Home Theater magazine review this Panasonic projector also adds 3:2 pulldown to each eye when a frame packed Blu-ray 3-D movie is played. When the Panasonic projector video processor unpacks the frame packed Blu-ray instead of offering 48fps (24fps for each eye) the Projector instead converts the 48fps frame packed source to 60fps for each eye by using 3:2 pulldown. Once the 3:2 pulldown coversion has taken place the projector refreshes the 3-D image at 480Hz (240Hz for each eye). This is interesting that the active glasses for this projector works at 480Hz (240Hz for each eye). According to the specs found on most universal active glasses they only work at 96Hz, 120Hz, and 144Hz. So one wonders if all active glasses will work at 480Hz or if the Panasonic active glasses are unique special design. The big disappointment with this projector is that if adds 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources and it also has a 3D brightness quality issue.

The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review

“Panasonic’s Frame Creation feature is designed to reduce motion blur. It’s usable in both 2D and 3D, but in 3D only on 1080p/24 sources or interlaced sources employing 3:2 pulldown (that is, film-based material). In 2D, with Frame Creation off and a 1080p/24 source, the projector refreshes its image at 196 hertz.”

“In all other situations, Frame Creation on or off, the refresh rate is 240 Hz in 2D and 480 Hz (240 Hz for each eye) in 3D. The extra frames required to reach these refresh rates are produced either by interpolation with Frame Creation on (or a combination of interpolation and repetition) or simply by repetition with it off.”

“Then there’s the 3D brightness issue. To be fair, most relatively affordable home theater 3D projectors have serious trouble with 3D brightness, and the PT-AE8000U is no exception. A higher-gain and/or smaller screen will help, but at some sacrifice in 2D performance.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

HDTV1080P · 02-21-2013, 07:28 PM

I am disappointed in the new Sony PlayStation 4 announcement

It sounds like the Sony PlayStation 4 is going to be released in the fourth quarter of 2013, unless it’s delayed. I am surprised that Sony did not wait until the year 2016 to release the PlayStation 4 and then they could have launched it with a new 4K optical disc format.

The PlayStation 4 is breaking with tradition. For example in December of 1994 the original PlayStation number one was released with a CD-ROM drive built in (around 700MB optical disc capacity that also allowed consumers to play audio CD’s). The PlayStation 2 was released in the year 2000 with a DVD-ROM drive built in (8.5GB optical disc capacity that also allowed consumers to play 480i DVD movies). In November of 2006 the PlayStation 3 was released with a built in BD-ROM drive (50GB optical disc capacity that also allowed consumers to play 1080P Blu-ray movies ). So logically the Sony PlayStation 4 should have had a new and improved optical disc format with a 200-500GB+ capacity to offer either lossy or lossless 4K movies.

However, instead of offering a new optical disc technology it appears that the new Sony PlayStation 4 will only offer a standard 50GB BD-ROM drive. It would have been ideal for the PS4 to offer at least a 128GB BDXL Blu-ray drive with a new improved video compression system so that 4K movies would become a possibility for the consumer market.

According to the following link the PS4 will at the very minimum offer 4K or Quad HD upscaling feature for movies, however it would have been better for the PS4 to launch in 2016 and give consumers a true 4K optical disc format. Also in 3 years from now 4K (QUAD HD) displays will be more affordable for the average consumer.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/ps4-will-output-video-in-4k-but-not-games/

HDTV1080P · 02-23-2013, 08:30 PM

The 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD is still the best 2-D 1080P display for overall picture quality

“The best plasmas can provide slightly better real-world blacks and better off-center viewing than the Samsung. But what Samsung offers here is one of the five best flat-screen HDTVs I’ve yet tested. In no particular order (apart from the first set listed), the others are the Pioneer Elite PRO-141FD (60-inch plasma, no longer available and not 3D capable);…”

http://www.hometheater.com/content/samsung-un75es9000-3d-lcd-hdtv-page-2

HDTV1080P · 03-08-2013, 08:04 PM

Sony XBR-84X900 Ultra HDTV

The Sony XBR-84X900 is not a true 4K display. 4,096 X 2,160 is the resolution of true 4K displays. However the Sony XBR-84X900 is a QUAD HD display with a resolution of 3,840 X 2,160. Currently the list at the beginning of this thread only contains 4K displays with a resolution of 4,096 X 2,160 that offer Cinema quality frame rates for both 2-D and 3-D sources. When and if the consumer 4K optical format is released (estimated educated guess around the year 2016) it will either have a resolution of 4,096 X 2,160 or 3,840 X 2,160. So there is a possibility that in the future instead of getting true 4K at 4,096 X 2,160 on a optical disc, instead the new optical disc format might only support 3,840 X 2,160 with the label of QUAD HD (Or the definition of 4K could be changed to include 3,840 X 2,160 as a official 4K consumer resolution instead of calling it QUAD HD). 4K is a more popular name when compared to QUAD HD. The consumer electronics industry is currently confusing consumers when they call QUAD HD displays 4K displays.

Another issue with this Sony XBR-84X900 is the 3-D frame rate is unknown. It still might only offer 60Hz for each eye when viewing 3-D material instead of using 72Hz for each eye (144Hz total) or 96Hz for each eye (192Hz total).

The very positive feature of this $25,000 Sony XBR-84X900 is that it offers full 1080P quality 3-D images using passive glasses. The Sound and Vision review mentions that there is no flicker and no ghosting when they viewed 3-D material on the Sony XBR-84X900. The no flicker issue would mean the frame rate is at the very minimum 120Hz (60Hz for each eye). However 60Hz has 3:2 pulldown issues and is not used in commercial Cinemas. This Sony XBR-84X900 would be almost perfect if it were to offer a triple flash 144Hz mode or quad flash 192Hz mode for 3-D material.

The following are select word for word quotes from the Sound and Vision review

“Much has been made of 4K/Ultra HD’s resolution boost (four times as many pixels as in a regular HDTV image), but a barrier exists between that added detail and your ability to appreciate it: your vision. With an 84-inch screen, an ideal viewing distance that would allow you to take in 4K’s added detail is 5-6 feet. But if you’ve spent time sitting 5-6 feet from an 84-inch screen, as I did during my evaluation of the 84X900, you’d probably consider it to be uncomfortably close. Most viewers sit 8-10 feet from their TVs. But a problem with this scenario is that, when viewed from an 8-10 -foot distance, the resolution boost provided by 4K on an 84-inch screen theoretically evaporates.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Sound and Vision magazine website **

Nisei · 03-22-2013, 06:40 PM

Great thread. Except all the different fonts and font sizes are giving me a headache

HDTV1080P · 03-25-2013, 09:08 PM

It appears that low cost QUAD HD flat panel displays for under $5,000 might be coming soon (QUAD HD is sometimes called 4K)

Quotes

“Few consumers seem interested in buying new 4K TVs with prices now ranging anywhere from $15,999 to $40,000. However, CE Daily reports that Sony will soon launch a 4K set at a more reasonable starting point of $5,000."

"Sony has already launched an 84-inch 4K TV priced at $25,000. However, the company announced last January at the Consumer Electronics Show that it would launch 55-inch and 65-inch editions of the 4K set this year."

"CE Daily writes that the smaller-screen 4K sets could be available in stores in May with the 55-inch set going for $5,000 and the 65-inch model costing $7,000."

http://www.tvpredictions.com/sony032513.htm

HDTV1080P · 04-07-2013, 12:29 AM

Sony Bravia XBR-84X900 3D LCD Ultra HDTV

(Home Theater magazine review)

The discontinued 60 inch 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD for $7,000 still offers an overall better picture quality when watching 1080P 2-D material when compared to the $25,000 Sony XBR-84X900 since the Pioneer black levels are reference quality.

The advantage of the Sony XBR-84X900 is for those that like to play two player Playstation games and also the Sony has the ability to display a full vertical 3-D resolution of 1080P using passive glasses. With the lack of QUAD HD content from streaming and downloaded sources the XBR-84X900 will upscale images to 3840 X 2160 (Also hopefully around the year 2016 a new 4K optical disc format might arrive). However 3-D frame packed Blu-ray movies become 3840 x 1080P once the passive glasses are used (One will see the full vertical resolution of 1080P for each eye with the use of passive glasses) .The only real negative is most likely this Sony XBR-84X900 still offers only 60Hz for each eye with 3:2 pulldown, however that is only a theory and needs to be verified. The ideal passive glasses 3-D display should offer both 1080P resolution to both eyes with a total frame rate of 144fps or 192fps.

The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review

“On difficult, dark scenes, the XBR-84X900 produced solid blacks. They weren’t quite the equal of what we’ve seen on sets with full backlighting with local dimming, including Sony’s own XBR-55HX950, and they certainly weren’t up to the standard of my reference Pioneer Kuro plasma.”

“In addition, with the use of special glasses, two-player SimulView PlayStation games can be played with each player viewing only his or her own full screen (not split-screen) part of the action.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

HDTV1080P · 04-08-2013, 11:25 AM

Sony Releases Prices On Quad HDTVs (Also called 4K Quad HD)

New 4K QUAD HD media player for $699

Sony’s Quad HD 3,840 x 2,160 LCD flat panel displays will be using LED edge lit technology. The Sony 55 inch XBR-55X900A list price is $5,000 and the 65 inch XBR-65X900A list price is $7,000. When compared to Sony’s 84 inch XBR-84X900 that has a list price of $25,000, the 55 inch and 65 inch versions are much more affordable for the average consumer. The advantage of these new displays is the ability to offer full 1080P for both eyes while using passive 3-D glasses (most likely still 60Hz for each eye).

Sony will also be offering this summer a new 4K Ultra HD internet based media player called the FMP X-1 for $699 so that consumers can purchase downloadable movies over the Internet.

The so called “Mastered in 4K” Sony Blu-ray discs are just standard 1080P Blu-ray discs that were created from a 4K master. Consumers around the year 2016 might see a new 4K optical disc format launched. The fear by some consumers is the movie studios might force consumers to stream or download 4K Quad HD movies instead of offering some type of new 500GB super bit 4K optical disc format. Without an optical disc format for 4K QUAD HD, consumers will need to own 4TB and larger hard drives so they can purchase several 100GB and larger QUAD HD movie files. In theory, the encrypted 100GB+ QUAD HD movie files will contain 5.1-7.1 lossless sound quality, however that needs to be verified.

The following are select word for word quotes from the Twice article

“The sets, which were initially unveiled at International CES in January, include the 55-inch XBR-55X900A (carrying a $5,000 suggested retail) and 65-inch XBR-65X900A ($7,000).”

“The FMP-X1 4K Media Player will go on sale this summer bundled with 10 feature films and video shorts in true 4K resolution for $699, Sony revealed.”

Sony Releases Prices On 4K TVs

HDTV1080P · 04-15-2013, 10:32 PM

Seiki 50 inch 2-D QUAD HDTV in stock for under $1,500

The TigerDirect website is currently selling the 50 inch Seiki SE50UY04 for $1,499.99 plus free shipping. This Seiki HDTV has a true 3840 X 2160 resolution with a 120Hz refresh rate. All video content is upscaled to the sets native 3840 X 2160 resoultion. This Seiki LCD flat panel display uses LED edge-lit technology. The display also has an analog and digital tuner which is a required feature to be labeled as a TV instead of a monitor (composite video, component video, and 3 HDMI 1.4 inputs are some of the connection features offered).

One negative regarding the Seiki QUAD HDTV is that it is only a 2-D display. The advantage of the Sony LED edge-lit QUAD HD flat panels is that they offer full 1080P 3-D quality for frame packed 3-D Blu-ray discs when using passive glasses.

Another issue is that until a 4K or QUAD HD optical disc format is released (estimated around 2016+) the QUAD HD feature is a useless feature for a 2-D only display. One article I read said the Sony QUAD HD media player that is going to be released, will only work with Sony QUAD HD displays. However maybe the Sony QUAD HD media player that downloads 100GB+ native QUAD HD movies to a hard drive might also work with other brands of QUAD HD displays.

The only real positive that the Seiki offers is the amazing under $1,500 price for a 50 inch 2-D QUAD HD display.

The following are select word for word quotes from the Twice article

“A mass market for 4K Ultra High-Definition TV may have arrived a bit earlier than many had expected Monday, as value CE manufacturer Seiki Digital unveiled a 50-inch 4K Ultra HD LED-edge-lit LCD TV at an eyebrow-raising suggested retail of $1,500.”

“The company plans to roll out a 65-inch screen size model in 2013. The 50-inch model will be available through select authorized retailers, including Amazon.com and QVC, the manufacturer said.”

Seiki Sets $1,500 Price For 50-Inch Ultra HD (Twice article link)

HDTV1080P · 05-04-2013, 06:39 AM

The 2011 Sharp Elite’s are now officially discontinued

I was in the local Best Buy Magnolia store in my area on Friday evening. The Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD and PRO-60X5FD have been discontinued according to Best Buy. The Best Buy warehouse was even out of stock on the Sharp Elites and will not be getting anymore. The Best Buy in my area had a red sold sign on the display model for the Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD.

It is my understanding that there will not be a second generation Sharp Elite model manufactured. This is disappointing news since the Sharp Elite 2-D picture quality was almost as good as the Pioneer PRO-141FD when viewed from the center seat in the room. Hopefully in 2013 or 2014 OLED screens will be able to match or beat the quality of the 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD that is still used as a reference display by professional reviewers.

09-29-2012, 04:15 AM	#1061
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	The Sony KDL-55HX850 3-D LCD has a annoying flicker even at 120Hz (60Hz) each eye (Home Theater magazine review) I was very surprised to read that when motionflow is turned off (frame interpolation switched off), the Sony KDL-55HX850 has clearly visible and annoying flicker even at 120Hz (60Hz 3:2 pulldown for each eye). Most people do not see flicker at 120Hz in 3-D and only have problems with the 3-2 pulldown judder issue for each eye when 3-D programs are displayed at 120Hz. This new Sony LCD is the first time that I have heard a 3-D set having major flicker issue at 120HZ. It’s too bad manufactories do not use a minimum of 144Hz for 3-D like all single light source commercial theaters use to eliminate the flicker. According to the Home Theater magazine review, when frame interpolation is on (Motionflow on) the flicker goes away except for the 2-D to 3-D conversion that needs further changes to the Motionflow to make the flicker issue disappear. Quote “In 3D, the Sony converts 24-frame-per-second sources to 60 fps using 3:2 pulldown. Whether for this reason or not, with Motionflow off in 3D, the set produced clearly visible, and annoying, flicker. Setting Motionflow to Standard eliminated this without any obvious soap-opera effect. But this change does not carry over to the set’s (moderately effective) 2D-to-3D conversion mode. For that mode, which also has the same flicker issue, you must switch Motionflow to Standard separately.” http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-kdl-55hx850-3d-lcd-hdtv-page-2 Last edited by HDTV1080P; 09-29-2012 at 04:26 AM.

10-20-2012, 02:21 AM	#1063
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	VIZIO XVT3D580CM 3D LCD HDTV (58 INCH CinemaWide 120Hz LCD display) The very first native 2560 X 1080P flat screen display offered in the United States Only 540P for each eye instead of 1080P for each eye when in 3-D mode No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode VIZIO now offers two CinemaWide LCD displays in the United States that use edge lit LED's for lighting. A 58 inch XVT3D580CM and a 50 inch XVT3D500CM. The VIZIO CinemaWide 3-D LCD displays big disappointment occurs in the quality of its 3D image, which is why they will not be added to the list. Like all current flat screens on the market that use 3-D passive glasses technology, the VIZIO CinemaWide LCD displays only offer 540P quality for each eye instead of 1080P quality when watching frame packed Blu-ray 3-D movies. Another negative is the VIZIO CinemaWide 3-D LCD displays adds 3:2 pulldown 60Hz to each eye since the VIZIO CinemaWide native refresh rate is 120Hz (60Hz for each eye when the 3-D glasses are used). The ideal flat screen display should display frame packed 3-D Blu-ray images at 144Hz or 192Hz in order to offer Cinema quality frame rates. The awesome feature of the VIZIO CinemaWide displays is the native 2560 X 1080P resolution with a 21:9 Aspect Ratio. All flat screen displays will always show black bars including the CinemaWide displays when watching native source material that does not match the ratio of the display. There is no getting around the black bar issue with flat screens unless one stretches and distorts the image to fit the screen. The advantage of the VIZIO CinemaWide displays is that when watching a 2:35:1 aspect ratio program there will not be any black bars at all. The negative thing about the Blu-ray format is that the resolution of a 2:35:1 source image is only 1920 X 817P instead of 2560 X 1080P (640 x 263P is lost in the black bars on the Blu-ray format since there is no anamorphic CinemaWide feature in the Blu-ray specs). The Blu-ray format specs does not support native 2560 X 1080P resolution and it does not support anamorphic Widescreen for CinemaWide displays. So the problem is there is no native source material available at 2560 X 1080P to feed the VIZIO CinemaWide displays (also the maximum native input accepted by the VIZIO CinemaWide display is 1920 X 1080P). So the solution to this problem is that the VIZIO CinemaWide displays will upconvert all SD and HD 2:35:1 source images to 2560 X 1080P using special video processing that is unique. That means so called 1920 X 1080P Blu-ray’s that use 2:35:1 ratios are really 1920 X 817P Blu-rays when it comes to the actual image area. So what happens is the VIZIO CinemaWide display will get rid of the black bars completely on a 2:35:1 ratio 1920 X 817P Blu-ray by upconverting the image to 2560 X 1080P. With any upconversion process there can be some negative artifacts but overall according to the review for those consumers that want to get rid of black bars for Scope films the VIZIO does a fairly good upscaling to 2560 X 1080P. Another advantage of this 58 inch VIZIO CinemaWide display is that the list price is only $2,499.99. VIZIO is currently selling the 58 inch model on their website for only $1,999.99 with free shipping. The black levels on the VIZIO CinemaWide LCD displays with LED edgelit technology is not as good of quality when compared to some more expensive higher-end plasmas and LCD’s with LED backlighting. However the CinemaWide feature at a native resolution of 2560 X 1080P is an exclusive feature currently only offered by VIZIO in the United States. I am hoping more consumer electronics companies might also come out with higher-end CinemaWide displays that will offer deep black levels and a native 2560 X 1080P image. Of course with QUAD HD and 4K displays now starting to hit the market, consumers might forget about the CinemaWide feature for a while. Hopefully in the future a 4K optical disc format might offer a anamorphic CinemaWide feature in its specs for those that want to watch scope movies at the full resolution with no black bars. Perhaps 4K CinemaWide flat screen displays might become a reality in the future. The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review “Apart from its wide aspect ratio, the CinemaWide set offers another major plus—a true pixel count of 2560 x 1080. That is, the set’s horizontal resolution is actually higher than the horizontal resolution of any standard HDTV. But the actual image area of a 2.35:1 movie in our 1920 x 1080 HD system is 1920 x 817; the rest of the vertical pixels are used for the black bars. The CinemaWide upconverts a 2.35:1 source in its native resolution of 2560 x 1080. Going by the latter, the XVT3D580CM’s true aspect ratio, while specified as 21:9 or 2.33:1, is actually 2.37:1—or 21.33:9.” “Since the true resolution of the 2.35:1 source image is still 1920 x 817, this upconversion can’t actually increase the resolution. But it does produce a picture with a finer pixel structure. This alone should pay dividends, provided there’s a clean upconversion from 1920 x 817 to 2560 x 1080. The most obvious benefit of this is that you can sit closer to the screen. I did much of my viewing of this set from little more than 7 or 8 feet.” Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website Last edited by dobyblue; 10-08-2013 at 03:45 PM.

10-30-2012, 10:11 PM	#1066
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Panasonic TC-P50GT50 3-D Plasma (October 2012 Widescreen review magazine) Unwatchable flicker when viewing standard 2-D 1080p/24 Blu-ray material at 48Hz No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode On page 12 and pages 14-17 of the October 2012 Widescreen review magazine, there is a review on the Panasonic GT50 series (TC-P50GT50). According to the review when the Panasonic GT50 series is placed in the 48Hz setting and a 1080p/24 signal is received the GT50 series has a unwatchable and extremely distracting flicker. What is disappointing is that several professional reviews over several years have mentioned several times that the 48Hz setting on the Panasonic plasma displays are either unwatchable or have a ignoring flicker issue. These are reviews from magazines like Sound and Vision, Home Theater magazine, and Widescreen review magazine. This issue has been going on for a little over 4 years now with Panasonic and the 48Hz setting and it appears that Panasonic does not have any plans to offer 72Hz plasmas for their entire line like LG started doing in 2011. The entire line of 2011 and 2012 LG plasma screens offer Real Cinema 3:3 pulldown at 72Hz for 1080p/24 2-D material. The top of the line VT series Panasonics also offers a 96HZ setting that is normally flicker free for most 2-D viewing. Panasonic should offer a 72Hz or 96Hz setting for their entire line of plasmas and consumers should not have to purchase the top of the line VT series in order to get Cinema quality frame rates without flicker (bright scenes sometimes has flicker at 96Hz according to a CNET review). All 3-D plasmas from LG, Samsung, and Panasonic use 100% active shutter glasses at the full 1080P resolution. Hopefully in the future one of those manufactories will make a 144fps plasma to match the Cinema 3-D frame rate instead of 120Hz with 3-2 pulldown for each eye. The majority of consumers do not own a Blu-ray player yet and the consumers that do have a Blu-ray player just leave their Panasonic plasmas set at the factory default 60Hz setting with 3:2 pulldown issues. As more and more consumers purchase Blu-ray players and become familiar with how to properly display 1080p/24 signals at multiplies of the original frame rate then they will want to use features like 48Hz, 72Hz, and 96Hz that is found on many consumer displays. The following is word for word quotes from page 16 of the October 2012 Widescreen Review magazine “Setting 24p Direct in to 48 Hz proved to be unwatchable, with constant flickering that was extremely distracting. The 48 Hz setting for 24p Direct In is completely useless. The 24p Direct in setting should never be switched from 60Hz, unless you’re attempting to induce seizures.” Last edited by HDTV1080P; 10-30-2012 at 11:13 PM.

12-18-2012, 02:42 AM	#1067
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Sony XBR-55HX950 3D LCD HDTV (Home Theater magazine review) “The XBR-55HX950 operates at a native refresh rate of 240 hertz” 3D frame packed 1080P sources produced a small but annoying flicker when Motionflow is turned off 3-D mode has no 144fps, 192fps, or 240fps Digital Cinema mode The Sony HX950 series properly displays 2-D 1080p/24 material at 240Hz using a repeating frame method when both Motionflow and Smooth Gradation are turned off. Also the Sony HX950 series offers deep black levels and shadow detail that is better than the current generation of Panasonic plasma’s. Like all LCD screens the HX950 series is not as good as a plasma screen when it comes to off angle viewing. The Sony XBR-55HX950 and XBR-65HX950 is one of the best LCD’s with full LED-backlit local-dimming for the year 2012. The Sony HX950 series will not be added to the list since the way it handles 3-D frame packed Blu-ray material. 3-D flat panels came out in 2010 and at the end of 2012 there is still no 3-D flat screen on the market that offers a Cinema quality 3-D mode at a minimum of 144fps (72fps for each eye). 240Hz flat screen LCD panels still insert black frames between each real frame so the effective total output is really 120Hz in 3-D mode (60Hz for each eye). The ideal flat screen display should offer triple flash technology at 144fps or quad flash technology at 192fps with no black frame insertion. So the Cinema quality frame rate list still only lists ceiling mounted Front Projectors in the range of around $50,000-$200,000 that offers both 2-D and 3-D frame rate performance that matches the commercial movie theaters. I hope that in the years to come a 144fps 3-D plasma or 144fps 3-D LCD flat screen will be released for under $10,000. The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review "Motionflow and Smooth Gradation fell in that latter category. They work together to provide varying degrees of motion smoothing, depending on their combined settings. If, like me, you hate the way frame interpolation makes your favorite films look like videotaped soap operas, you’ll also leave both of these features off. One exception: I found that 3D sources at 24 frames per second produced a small but annoying flicker. Setting Motionflow to Standard elim-inated this. Smooth Gradation is locked out in 3D, though it’s oddly accessible in the set’s 2D-to-3D conversion mode.” “The XBR-55HX950 operates at a native refresh rate of 240 hertz, but its video processing, which includes Backlight Blinking and Backlight Scanning, is claimed to provide performance equivalent to a set with a native performance of 960 Hz. With Motionflow and Smooth Gradation turned off, the Sony simply repeats each frame as required to match its 240-Hz refresh rate.” Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website Last edited by dobyblue; 10-08-2013 at 03:46 PM.

12-21-2012, 10:54 PM	#1068
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Samsung PN51E550D1F 3D Plasma HDTV will not be added to the list since it uses 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources 2-D 1080p/24 sources are properly displayed at 96Hz when film mode is set to Cinema Smooth No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode The Samsung PN51E550D1F will properly display 2-D 1080p/24 source material at 96Hz by repeating each frame 4 times when the film mode is set for Cinema Smooth. What is disappointing about this Samsung plasma screen is that 3-D frame packed Blu-ray movies have a total refresh rate of 120Hz (instead of a total refresh rate of 144Hz or 192Hz). When the 3-D frame packed Blu-ray source material is unpacked by the displays video processor the native 3-D source becomes 48Hz, then the Samsung display adds 6:4 pulldown (3:2 pulldown judder for each eye) instead of repeating the 48Hz source 3 times. So all Samsung 3-D plasma screens on the market so far add 3:2 pulldown 60Hz for each eye when the active glasses are used. The ideal plasma flat screen should use 144Hz triple flash technology or 192Hz quad flash technology to match the frame rate quality of the 3-D commercial theaters without the need for 3:2 pulldown for each eye (total pulldown 6:4). The following is a select word for word quote from the Home Theater magazine review “The PN51E550D1F refreshes at 60 hertz, 96 Hz, or 120 Hz. With Film mode set to Cinema Smooth, the Samsung displays 24-fps sources (most Blu-ray movies) at 4x their native refresh rate, or 96 Hz. The added frames are simply repeated. With a non24-fps source, the refresh rate is 60 Hz and the Film mode changes to one of its Auto settings. 3D playback, however, always uses 3:2 pulldown with 24-fps sources for a total refresh rate of 120 Hz (60 Hz at each eye).” Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website Last edited by HDTV1080P; 12-21-2012 at 11:03 PM.

10-16-2012, 04:53 PM	#1062
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Now Samsung is making LCD displays that are called Clear Motion Rate 240 but in reality the actual refresh rate is 120Hz with only the LED backlight being scanned at 240Hz. The following are select quotes from the Sound and Vision magazine review: “One of the only features found on this TV is called Clear Motion Rate 240. This is Samsung’s way of either obfuscating the actual refresh rate or offering consumers a more accurate description of the motion performance. I’ll let you decide, only biasing your conclusion by mentioning this is one of the first companies to actively push “LED TV” as a real thing. (There’s no such thing as an LED TV. They are actually LCD TVs with LED backlights.)” “The actual refresh rate of the EH6000 is 120 Hz, but if you enable Clear Motion Rate 240’s LED Motion Plus mode, the backlight scans, decreasing motion blur somewhat without having to activate another, less desirable, feature of Clear Motion Rate 240, the frame-interpolating Auto Motion Plus mode (which adds a video-like “Soap Opera Effect” to film-based/24-fps images.” http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-samsung-un55eh6000-lcd-hdtv?page=0,0

01-03-2013, 10:03 PM	#1069
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	LG 55LM8600 3D LCD HDTV will not be added to the list since it uses 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources 2-D 1080p/24 sources are properly displayed at 120Hz (5:5 pulldown repeating frame method) when TruMotion is turned off Only 540P for each eye instead of 1080P for each eye when in 3-D mode No Cinema quality 144Hz or 192Hz 3-D mode The LG 55LM8600 properly displays 2-D 1080p/24 material at 120Hz by using the repeating frame method when TruMotion is turned off. What is disappointing about all flat panel screens on the market including the LG models is that a Cinema quality 144Hz triple flash mode or 192Hz quad flash mode does not exist. Instead the LG 55LM8600 adds 60Hz 3:2 pulldown judder to each eye when the 3-D glasses are active. Another big negative regarding this LG display is that in 3-D mode each eye only sees 540P 3-D images instead of 1080P 3-D images. The ideal 1080P 3-D consumer flat panel in the future should offer both 1080P resolution for each eye and also a minimum of 144Hz for the best quality 3-D experience. The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review “The set’s native refresh rate is 120 hertz, but it simulates 240 Hz with a combination of scanning and modulating the LED lighting. The LG raises 24-Hz 2D sources to match its refresh rate either by repeating (TruMotion off) or interpolating (TruMotion on) the added frames as necessary. In 3D, however, 24-Hz sources undergo 3:2 pulldown, converting them to 60 Hz prior to display.” “LG’s motion compensation system, TruMotion, can make film-based material look like video—a characteristic common to most such systems that smooth motion by interpolating new frames.” “LG’s 3D technology uses light and inexpensive passive 3D glasses. The set comes with six pair. As with any of today’s passive 3D televisions, the resolution seen by each eye is reduced to 1920 x 540…” Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website Last edited by HDTV1080P; 01-03-2013 at 10:18 PM.

02-05-2013, 08:24 PM	#1070
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	The Sony VPL-HW50ES 3D SXRD Front Projector will not be added to the list The Sony VPL-HW50ES will properly display 2-D 1080p/24 material at 192Hz (8:8 pulldown) when Motionflow is turned off. Video based sources like 1080P/60 and 1080i/30 are displayed at 240Hz. The Home Theater magazine review does not mention the frame rate for 3-D sources, however my theory is that when the active glasses are used for 3-D sources the Sony VPL-HW50ES uses 60 Hz for each eye (This needs to be verified and is only a theory). Most active glasses can handle a total frame rate of 96fps, 120fps, and 144fps. It would be awesome and ideal if a Front Projector could offer 192Hz or 240Hz for 3-D without using black frame insertion. Most likely the 240Hz Sony VPL-HW50ES when fed a frame packed Blu-ray 3-D movie will insert black frames in between each real frame and the total refresh rate becomes 120Hz (60Hz for each eye once the 3-D glasses are used). The following are select quotes from Home Theater magazine review link: “With a 2D 1080p/24 source, the projector operates at a refresh rate of 192 hertz. With a 1080p/60 source (or a 1080i/30 source deinterlaced to 1080p/60 either externally or by the projector), the VPL-HW50ES refreshes at 240 Hz. With Motionflow off, the extra frames required to reach these refresh rates are repeated. With Motionflow on, they are interpolated.” Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website Last edited by HDTV1080P; 02-05-2013 at 08:29 PM.

02-15-2013, 09:21 PM	#1071
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Panasonic PT-AE8000U 3D LCD Projector will not be added to the list since it uses 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources 2-D 1080p/24 sources are properly displayed at 192Hz (8:8 pulldown repeating frame method) when Frame Creation is turned off No Cinema quality 144Hz, 192Hz, 240Hz, or 480Hz 3-D mode 3-D brightness quality issue The Home Theater magazine review by mistake mentioned that the 2-D refresh rate for 1080p/24 sources when the Frame Creation feature is turned off is 196 hertz (In reality they meant to say 192Hz). So the Panasonic PT-AE8000U according to my understanding of the Home Theater magazine review offers a repeating frame 8:8 pulldown mode for 2-D 1080p/24 sources when the Frame Creation feature is turned off. According to the Home Theater magazine review this Panasonic projector also adds 3:2 pulldown to each eye when a frame packed Blu-ray 3-D movie is played. When the Panasonic projector video processor unpacks the frame packed Blu-ray instead of offering 48fps (24fps for each eye) the Projector instead converts the 48fps frame packed source to 60fps for each eye by using 3:2 pulldown. Once the 3:2 pulldown coversion has taken place the projector refreshes the 3-D image at 480Hz (240Hz for each eye). This is interesting that the active glasses for this projector works at 480Hz (240Hz for each eye). According to the specs found on most universal active glasses they only work at 96Hz, 120Hz, and 144Hz. So one wonders if all active glasses will work at 480Hz or if the Panasonic active glasses are unique special design. The big disappointment with this projector is that if adds 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources and it also has a 3D brightness quality issue. The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review “Panasonic’s Frame Creation feature is designed to reduce motion blur. It’s usable in both 2D and 3D, but in 3D only on 1080p/24 sources or interlaced sources employing 3:2 pulldown (that is, film-based material). In 2D, with Frame Creation off and a 1080p/24 source, the projector refreshes its image at 196 hertz.” “In all other situations, Frame Creation on or off, the refresh rate is 240 Hz in 2D and 480 Hz (240 Hz for each eye) in 3D. The extra frames required to reach these refresh rates are produced either by interpolation with Frame Creation on (or a combination of interpolation and repetition) or simply by repetition with it off.” “Then there’s the 3D brightness issue. To be fair, most relatively affordable home theater 3D projectors have serious trouble with 3D brightness, and the PT-AE8000U is no exception. A higher-gain and/or smaller screen will help, but at some sacrifice in 2D performance.” Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website Last edited by HDTV1080P; 02-15-2013 at 09:37 PM.

02-21-2013, 07:28 PM	#1072
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	I am disappointed in the new Sony PlayStation 4 announcement It sounds like the Sony PlayStation 4 is going to be released in the fourth quarter of 2013, unless it’s delayed. I am surprised that Sony did not wait until the year 2016 to release the PlayStation 4 and then they could have launched it with a new 4K optical disc format. The PlayStation 4 is breaking with tradition. For example in December of 1994 the original PlayStation number one was released with a CD-ROM drive built in (around 700MB optical disc capacity that also allowed consumers to play audio CD’s). The PlayStation 2 was released in the year 2000 with a DVD-ROM drive built in (8.5GB optical disc capacity that also allowed consumers to play 480i DVD movies). In November of 2006 the PlayStation 3 was released with a built in BD-ROM drive (50GB optical disc capacity that also allowed consumers to play 1080P Blu-ray movies ). So logically the Sony PlayStation 4 should have had a new and improved optical disc format with a 200-500GB+ capacity to offer either lossy or lossless 4K movies. However, instead of offering a new optical disc technology it appears that the new Sony PlayStation 4 will only offer a standard 50GB BD-ROM drive. It would have been ideal for the PS4 to offer at least a 128GB BDXL Blu-ray drive with a new improved video compression system so that 4K movies would become a possibility for the consumer market. According to the following link the PS4 will at the very minimum offer 4K or Quad HD upscaling feature for movies, however it would have been better for the PS4 to launch in 2016 and give consumers a true 4K optical disc format. Also in 3 years from now 4K (QUAD HD) displays will be more affordable for the average consumer. http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/ps4-will-output-video-in-4k-but-not-games/ Last edited by HDTV1080P; 02-21-2013 at 07:43 PM.

02-23-2013, 08:30 PM	#1073
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	The 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD is still the best 2-D 1080P display for overall picture quality “The best plasmas can provide slightly better real-world blacks and better off-center viewing than the Samsung. But what Samsung offers here is one of the five best flat-screen HDTVs I’ve yet tested. In no particular order (apart from the first set listed), the others are the Pioneer Elite PRO-141FD (60-inch plasma, no longer available and not 3D capable);…” http://www.hometheater.com/content/samsung-un75es9000-3d-lcd-hdtv-page-2

03-08-2013, 08:04 PM	#1074
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Sony XBR-84X900 Ultra HDTV The Sony XBR-84X900 is not a true 4K display. 4,096 X 2,160 is the resolution of true 4K displays. However the Sony XBR-84X900 is a QUAD HD display with a resolution of 3,840 X 2,160. Currently the list at the beginning of this thread only contains 4K displays with a resolution of 4,096 X 2,160 that offer Cinema quality frame rates for both 2-D and 3-D sources. When and if the consumer 4K optical format is released (estimated educated guess around the year 2016) it will either have a resolution of 4,096 X 2,160 or 3,840 X 2,160. So there is a possibility that in the future instead of getting true 4K at 4,096 X 2,160 on a optical disc, instead the new optical disc format might only support 3,840 X 2,160 with the label of QUAD HD (Or the definition of 4K could be changed to include 3,840 X 2,160 as a official 4K consumer resolution instead of calling it QUAD HD). 4K is a more popular name when compared to QUAD HD. The consumer electronics industry is currently confusing consumers when they call QUAD HD displays 4K displays. Another issue with this Sony XBR-84X900 is the 3-D frame rate is unknown. It still might only offer 60Hz for each eye when viewing 3-D material instead of using 72Hz for each eye (144Hz total) or 96Hz for each eye (192Hz total). The very positive feature of this $25,000 Sony XBR-84X900 is that it offers full 1080P quality 3-D images using passive glasses. The Sound and Vision review mentions that there is no flicker and no ghosting when they viewed 3-D material on the Sony XBR-84X900. The no flicker issue would mean the frame rate is at the very minimum 120Hz (60Hz for each eye). However 60Hz has 3:2 pulldown issues and is not used in commercial Cinemas. This Sony XBR-84X900 would be almost perfect if it were to offer a triple flash 144Hz mode or quad flash 192Hz mode for 3-D material. The following are select word for word quotes from the Sound and Vision review “Much has been made of 4K/Ultra HD’s resolution boost (four times as many pixels as in a regular HDTV image), but a barrier exists between that added detail and your ability to appreciate it: your vision. With an 84-inch screen, an ideal viewing distance that would allow you to take in 4K’s added detail is 5-6 feet. But if you’ve spent time sitting 5-6 feet from an 84-inch screen, as I did during my evaluation of the 84X900, you’d probably consider it to be uncomfortably close. Most viewers sit 8-10 feet from their TVs. But a problem with this scenario is that, when viewed from an 8-10 -foot distance, the resolution boost provided by 4K on an 84-inch screen theoretically evaporates.” Click here to read the complete review at the Sound and Vision magazine website Last edited by dobyblue; 10-08-2013 at 03:47 PM.

03-22-2013, 06:40 PM	#1075
Nisei Special Member Top contributor Member since:Dec 2009 Location:the Dutch Mountains Blu-ray collection:347 Trading Score:31	Great thread. Except all the different fonts and font sizes are giving me a headache

03-25-2013, 09:08 PM	#1076
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	It appears that low cost QUAD HD flat panel displays for under $5,000 might be coming soon (QUAD HD is sometimes called 4K) Quotes “Few consumers seem interested in buying new 4K TVs with prices now ranging anywhere from $15,999 to $40,000. However, CE Daily reports that Sony will soon launch a 4K set at a more reasonable starting point of $5,000." "Sony has already launched an 84-inch 4K TV priced at $25,000. However, the company announced last January at the Consumer Electronics Show that it would launch 55-inch and 65-inch editions of the 4K set this year." "CE Daily writes that the smaller-screen 4K sets could be available in stores in May with the 55-inch set going for $5,000 and the 65-inch model costing $7,000." http://www.tvpredictions.com/sony032513.htm

04-07-2013, 12:29 AM	#1077
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Sony Bravia XBR-84X900 3D LCD Ultra HDTV (Home Theater magazine review) The discontinued 60 inch 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD for $7,000 still offers an overall better picture quality when watching 1080P 2-D material when compared to the $25,000 Sony XBR-84X900 since the Pioneer black levels are reference quality. The advantage of the Sony XBR-84X900 is for those that like to play two player Playstation games and also the Sony has the ability to display a full vertical 3-D resolution of 1080P using passive glasses. With the lack of QUAD HD content from streaming and downloaded sources the XBR-84X900 will upscale images to 3840 X 2160 (Also hopefully around the year 2016 a new 4K optical disc format might arrive). However 3-D frame packed Blu-ray movies become 3840 x 1080P once the passive glasses are used (One will see the full vertical resolution of 1080P for each eye with the use of passive glasses) .The only real negative is most likely this Sony XBR-84X900 still offers only 60Hz for each eye with 3:2 pulldown, however that is only a theory and needs to be verified. The ideal passive glasses 3-D display should offer both 1080P resolution to both eyes with a total frame rate of 144fps or 192fps. The following are select word for word quotes from the Home Theater magazine review “On difficult, dark scenes, the XBR-84X900 produced solid blacks. They weren’t quite the equal of what we’ve seen on sets with full backlighting with local dimming, including Sony’s own XBR-55HX950, and they certainly weren’t up to the standard of my reference Pioneer Kuro plasma.” “In addition, with the use of special glasses, two-player SimulView PlayStation games can be played with each player viewing only his or her own full screen (not split-screen) part of the action.” Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website Last edited by dobyblue; 10-08-2013 at 03:47 PM.

04-08-2013, 11:25 AM	#1078
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Sony Releases Prices On Quad HDTVs (Also called 4K Quad HD) New 4K QUAD HD media player for $699 Sony’s Quad HD 3,840 x 2,160 LCD flat panel displays will be using LED edge lit technology. The Sony 55 inch XBR-55X900A list price is $5,000 and the 65 inch XBR-65X900A list price is $7,000. When compared to Sony’s 84 inch XBR-84X900 that has a list price of $25,000, the 55 inch and 65 inch versions are much more affordable for the average consumer. The advantage of these new displays is the ability to offer full 1080P for both eyes while using passive 3-D glasses (most likely still 60Hz for each eye). Sony will also be offering this summer a new 4K Ultra HD internet based media player called the FMP X-1 for $699 so that consumers can purchase downloadable movies over the Internet. The so called “Mastered in 4K” Sony Blu-ray discs are just standard 1080P Blu-ray discs that were created from a 4K master. Consumers around the year 2016 might see a new 4K optical disc format launched. The fear by some consumers is the movie studios might force consumers to stream or download 4K Quad HD movies instead of offering some type of new 500GB super bit 4K optical disc format. Without an optical disc format for 4K QUAD HD, consumers will need to own 4TB and larger hard drives so they can purchase several 100GB and larger QUAD HD movie files. In theory, the encrypted 100GB+ QUAD HD movie files will contain 5.1-7.1 lossless sound quality, however that needs to be verified. The following are select word for word quotes from the Twice article “The sets, which were initially unveiled at International CES in January, include the 55-inch XBR-55X900A (carrying a $5,000 suggested retail) and 65-inch XBR-65X900A ($7,000).” “The FMP-X1 4K Media Player will go on sale this summer bundled with 10 feature films and video shorts in true 4K resolution for $699, Sony revealed.” Sony Releases Prices On 4K TVs Last edited by HDTV1080P; 04-08-2013 at 11:31 AM.

04-15-2013, 10:32 PM	#1079
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Seiki 50 inch 2-D QUAD HDTV in stock for under $1,500 The TigerDirect website is currently selling the 50 inch Seiki SE50UY04 for $1,499.99 plus free shipping. This Seiki HDTV has a true 3840 X 2160 resolution with a 120Hz refresh rate. All video content is upscaled to the sets native 3840 X 2160 resoultion. This Seiki LCD flat panel display uses LED edge-lit technology. The display also has an analog and digital tuner which is a required feature to be labeled as a TV instead of a monitor (composite video, component video, and 3 HDMI 1.4 inputs are some of the connection features offered). One negative regarding the Seiki QUAD HDTV is that it is only a 2-D display. The advantage of the Sony LED edge-lit QUAD HD flat panels is that they offer full 1080P 3-D quality for frame packed 3-D Blu-ray discs when using passive glasses. Another issue is that until a 4K or QUAD HD optical disc format is released (estimated around 2016+) the QUAD HD feature is a useless feature for a 2-D only display. One article I read said the Sony QUAD HD media player that is going to be released, will only work with Sony QUAD HD displays. However maybe the Sony QUAD HD media player that downloads 100GB+ native QUAD HD movies to a hard drive might also work with other brands of QUAD HD displays. The only real positive that the Seiki offers is the amazing under $1,500 price for a 50 inch 2-D QUAD HD display. The following are select word for word quotes from the Twice article “A mass market for 4K Ultra High-Definition TV may have arrived a bit earlier than many had expected Monday, as value CE manufacturer Seiki Digital unveiled a 50-inch 4K Ultra HD LED-edge-lit LCD TV at an eyebrow-raising suggested retail of $1,500.” “The company plans to roll out a 65-inch screen size model in 2013. The 50-inch model will be available through select authorized retailers, including Amazon.com and QVC, the manufacturer said.” Seiki Sets $1,500 Price For 50-Inch Ultra HD (Twice article link) Last edited by dobyblue; 10-08-2013 at 03:47 PM.

05-04-2013, 06:39 AM	#1080
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	The 2011 Sharp Elite’s are now officially discontinued I was in the local Best Buy Magnolia store in my area on Friday evening. The Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD and PRO-60X5FD have been discontinued according to Best Buy. The Best Buy warehouse was even out of stock on the Sharp Elites and will not be getting anymore. The Best Buy in my area had a red sold sign on the display model for the Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD. It is my understanding that there will not be a second generation Sharp Elite model manufactured. This is disappointing news since the Sharp Elite 2-D picture quality was almost as good as the Pioneer PRO-141FD when viewed from the center seat in the room. Hopefully in 2013 or 2014 OLED screens will be able to match or beat the quality of the 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD that is still used as a reference display by professional reviewers.

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