Star Wars: The Original Trilogy (1977-1983)

[warrian]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Wasn't the second "ship" in Contact privately built?

It's complicated. Both ships were built by a collection of governments and private interests. S.R. Hadden had a large interest in them, from buying out another company that was contracted to build them, but the US Government still maintained a lot of control over the redundant project. "They still want an American to go..."

[segagamer12]

Wait a second, so having a second Death Star in Jedi is redundant but having Vader secretly spying on Palpatine who is secretly spying on Vader is not redundant? That just sounds overly complicated I am glad they stuck to a simple story.

They told the story of Vader tempting Luke to the Darkside in Empire and he did it again in Jedi. I guess that wasn't redundant either but whatever I think it worked just fine. Jedi is one of my favorite movies of all time so I am happy with it the way it is.


BUT, I will be fair, when I as a kid since it was my first exposure to Star Wars I was confused when I watched the original I thought the Emperor was the revived corpse of Obi-Wan Kenobi before I figured out that wasn't the case. I should have known better because his ghost was in Jedi but I also thought Jedi was jet-eye and referred to that monster in the trash compactor. watching these films out of order really screws with your head when you are a kid.

[R3P0]

The Chewbacca defense proves once and for all Lucas = Full of crap

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Ends-...ll-115797.html

Peter Meyhew just posted the script from the original Star Wars proving once and for all Han Shot first!

[KRW1]

Has there ever been a debate? It was always a change that no-one liked.

Lets talk more about Death Stars. I've considered it further, and come to the conclusion that I'd have no problem with Death Star 2 in Jedi if it was the same size as the original.

[Rodney-2187]

Why build one when you can build two at twice the price?

[Porco Azzurro]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

Why build one when you can build two at twice the price?

That almost sounds like something I might have quoted!

[segagamer12]

Originally Posted by KRW1

Has there ever been a debate? It was always a change that no-one liked.

Lets talk more about Death Stars. I've considered it further, and come to the conclusion that I'd have no problem with Death Star 2 in Jedi if it was the same size as the original.

I disagree I think the change is irrelevant and completely blown out of proportion. Greedo was pointing a gun at Han and threatened to kill him, Han shot out of self defense. Self defense does not make Han a cold blooded murder it was always self defense. The people who dislike the change say it changes his character from a cold blooded killer to a wimp who had to justify shooting with self defense. Nothing changed Han shoots Greedo first = self defense, Han shoots Greedo after dodging Greedo's missed shot = self defense.


The other side of it is also as silly. They claim is Han is a "bad ass" in the original by shooting Greedo point blank. But casually dodging Greedo's shot at point blank range makes Han MORE of a bad ass because he casually dodges a point blank shot and still kills Greedo. The ONLY reason people dislike it is emotional nostalgia reasons but they try to come up with illogical explanations for disliking something that literally changes nothing about the scene or character at all.

[ambient_indie]

If anything, it makes Greedo a horrible, horrible shot.

[Show spoiler] And Jabba probably knew it!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by segagamer12

The ONLY reason people dislike it is emotional nostalgia reasons but they try to come up with illogical explanations for disliking something that literally changes nothing about the scene or character at all.

No, there's another reason: it looks really, really stupid and disrupts a really, really cool scene.

[ambient_indie]

Originally Posted by octagon

No, there's another reason: it looks really, really stupid and disrupts a really, really cool scene.

When I need a good laugh, I watch that scene from the special edition.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by segagamer12

I disagree I think the change is irrelevant and completely blown out of proportion. Greedo was pointing a gun at Han and threatened to kill him, Han shot out of self defense. Self defense does not make Han a cold blooded murder it was always self defense. The people who dislike the change say it changes his character from a cold blooded killer to a wimp who had to justify shooting with self defense. Nothing changed Han shoots Greedo first = self defense, Han shoots Greedo after dodging Greedo's missed shot = self defense.


The other side of it is also as silly. They claim is Han is a "bad ass" in the original by shooting Greedo point blank. But casually dodging Greedo's shot at point blank range makes Han MORE of a bad ass because he casually dodges a point blank shot and still kills Greedo. The ONLY reason people dislike it is emotional nostalgia reasons but they try to come up with illogical explanations for disliking something that literally changes nothing about the scene or character at all.

Well the whole point of Lucas changing it was to make Han react in self-defense as opposed to making a preemptive strike. Yeah you can argue it was still defensive, but it does change a bit of Han's personality and how he plays ball with threats. Is the alteration really as drastic as cold blooded killer to wimp? No, I agree with you on that point at least.

And as octagon pointed out, most people hate the scene because it just looks really stupid-- the scene wasn't shot in a way that Lucas could believably edit it the way he wanted. It improved from the original Special Edition to DVD onward, but it still looks like a really awkward edit for something that was totally unnecessary.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by segagamer12

I disagree I think the change is irrelevant and completely blown out of proportion. Greedo was pointing a gun at Han and threatened to kill him, Han shot out of self defense. Self defense does not make Han a cold blooded murder it was always self defense. The people who dislike the change say it changes his character from a cold blooded killer to a wimp who had to justify shooting with self defense. Nothing changed Han shoots Greedo first = self defense, Han shoots Greedo after dodging Greedo's missed shot = self defense.


The other side of it is also as silly. They claim is Han is a "bad ass" in the original by shooting Greedo point blank. But casually dodging Greedo's shot at point blank range makes Han MORE of a bad ass because he casually dodges a point blank shot and still kills Greedo. The ONLY reason people dislike it is emotional nostalgia reasons but they try to come up with illogical explanations for disliking something that literally changes nothing about the scene or character at all.

Fair enough if you like it, but there's a lot more than two reasons why people dislike the scene.

[partridge]

If can "obtain" the silver screen edition of Star Wars you can finally relive that scene in its original form.

24Gb download, but worth it.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by partridge

If can "obtain" the silver screen edition of Star Wars you can finally relive that scene in its original form.

24Gb download, but worth it.

It's excellent. I don't mind about 50% of the new additions but seeing the original, warts and all, version is a reminder of how special it was. I suspect if we do get an official original re-release at some point, they'll leave some of the special effect changes in place which I think would be a shame. Seeing the original special effects is a reminder of how advanced they were for the time.

Look at me, moaning about a release that hasn't even happened yet.

[partridge]

What struck me was the less saturated image, I am happy with the blu ray but this version has a nice feel to it too, a little more cinematic?

[segagamer12]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Well the whole point of Lucas changing it was to make Han react in self-defense as opposed to making a preemptive strike. Yeah you can argue it was still defensive, but it does change a bit of Han's personality and how he plays ball with threats. Is the alteration really as drastic as cold blooded killer to wimp? No, I agree with you on that point at least.

And as octagon pointed out, most people hate the scene because it just looks really stupid-- the scene wasn't shot in a way that Lucas could believably edit it the way he wanted. It improved from the original Special Edition to DVD onward, but it still looks like a really awkward edit for something that was totally unnecessary.

No the point was for Lucas to make it OBVIOUS that it was self-defense since it was ambiguous originally to some people. Also I stand by my statement, until I saw all the noise on the internet, I had seen the scene countless times and before it was pointed out I didn't even notice and I am 100 percent others didn't either but they will LIE and say they noticed because it is a cult of Lucas haters who have to stick together.




I am not arguing it is the better version but I am solidly convinced people only hate it because it was pointed out to them and they by into that really flawed logic or it is just emotions. Even saying it looks bad is a bit of a stretch because I have seen it thousands of times and nothing about it looks bad unless you watch it in super slo mo.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by segagamer12

No the point was for Lucas to make it OBVIOUS that it was self-defense since it was ambiguous originally to some people. Also I stand by my statement, until I saw all the noise on the internet, I had seen the scene countless times and before it was pointed out I didn't even notice and I am 100 percent others didn't either but they will LIE and say they noticed because it is a cult of Lucas haters who have to stick together.




I am not arguing it is the better version but I am solidly convinced people only hate it because it was pointed out to them and they by into that really flawed logic or it is just emotions. Even saying it looks bad is a bit of a stretch because I have seen it thousands of times and nothing about it looks bad unless you watch it in super slo mo.

You had to have seen it back in '97 to really get it-- It looked really, really dumb in the original alteration for the Special Edition. They fixed it to not look quite as bad on the DVD release, but by then the damage was done and people just hated the change.

Again I agree with you that it doesn't really change Han's character much-- it's pretty obvious if you're paying attention that Han needed to shoot Greedo if he was going to get out of the situation in one piece.

But I won't agree with you that it looks fine. It doesn't. The original scene was an awesome and memorable moment in the film, the new version diminishes that somewhat. Is it the WORST alteration? No, I'd go with the Jedi Rocks musical number for that honor, and probably even the needlessly added Jabba scene, in which a really bad, fake-looking Jabba repeats the same expository dialog that Greedo had done 5 minutes prior.

[ambient_indie]

"Why don't you have him step on his tail."

-George Lucas

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

You had to have seen it back in '97 to really get it-- It looked really, really dumb in the original alteration for the Special Edition. They fixed it to not look quite as bad on the DVD release, but by then the damage was done and people just hated the change.

Again I agree with you that it doesn't really change Han's character much-- it's pretty obvious if you're paying attention that Han needed to shoot Greedo if he was going to get out of the situation in one piece.

But I won't agree with you that it looks fine. It doesn't. The original scene was an awesome and memorable moment in the film, the new version diminishes that somewhat. Is it the WORST alteration? No, I'd go with the Jedi Rocks musical number for that honor, and probably even the needlessly added Jabba scene, in which a really bad, fake-looking Jabba repeats the same expository dialog that Greedo had done 5 minutes prior.

Yeah, "Jedi Rocks" still makes me cringe. It is easily the worst change in the OT, with Greedo's death being second.

[Spidey Blu]

I never had a problem with the Han & Greedo scene up until the blu-ray release. The way they edited it there is just awkward, like after all the hate Lucas couldn't stick to his guns and actually have Greedo shoot first. Now because he compromised and they shoot at the same time, it looks worse than it ever has.

I actually don't think most of the changes are bad. Sure, you have Jedi Rocks, the Jabba scene, the terrible CGI creatures in Anchorhead, etc. But in my opinion the good outweighs the bad, and in a way the special editions hold a special place for me because I would have never seen these movies on the big screen otherwise.

I do hate that Lucas has completely thrown the original cuts under the bus. There's no reason for it.