Star Wars: The Original Trilogy (1977-1983)

[Trailbreaker77]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

We need to celebrate...



It was 20 years ago today that our hatred for George truly began...

Why? What did he do?

[Moviefan2k4]

Only selfish idiots would personally slam a filmmaker, for making creative choices they disagree with. I remember seeing the 1997 edition of A New Hope in theaters, and being very impressed with it. I'd seen the original VHS countless times by then, and none of the changes bothered me. In retrospect, it amazes me that filming had already started on The Phantom Menace, yet most were clueless about it.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Only selfish idiots would personally slam a filmmaker, for making creative choices they disagree with.

My oh my, an ad hominem, a false equivalency, and a strawman all in one little sentence.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Only selfish idiots would personally slam a filmmaker, for making creative choices they disagree with. I remember seeing the 1997 edition of A New Hope in theaters, and being very impressed with it. I'd seen the original VHS countless times by then, and none of the changes bothered me. In retrospect, it amazes me that filming had already started on The Phantom Menace, yet most were clueless about it.

It's not so much the choices, just his refusal to release the movies as they originally were. I understand the frustration, even though I think some people take it WAY too far. Most of the changes are relatively benign, but the ones that are bad are REALLY bad.

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

My oh my, an ad hominem, a false equivalency, and a strawman all in one little sentence.

Someone likes the Oxford comma and logical fallacies.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Only selfish idiots would personally slam a filmmaker, for making creative choices they disagree with.

Does that same standard apply to praising creative choices we agree with?

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

He didn't say if it was the unaltered or Lucas' shit version.

And he could just be talking out his ass. All we've heard are rumors since why Disney acquisition, nothing concrete. I grow tired of false hopes. Last time it was revealed that we were getting the originals it was non-anamorphic crap that was more insulting than if it hadn't been released at all. I want concrete information before I even approach cautious optimism.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Not necessarily.

The last time it was released on film was the 35mm prints for the 1997 Special Edition back in the good old days when theaters projected film. Lucas hacked up the negatives to create it, and found and destroyed as may prints of the originals as possible. Now, I suppose it could theoretically be POSSIBLE for them to scan the 1997 prints and then try to fix the original portions with a number of methods-private collectors' prints, the separation masters, an IP-and then try to repair the color timing. But whether that would be worth the trouble for the small canvass who pay for it compared to financial and work hour effort needed to make it is highly doubtful.

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

Rian Johnson said it already exists.

So did John Landis. So has half the internet. I'm sick of it. Give me a concrete yes or no, not rumors. Ever since the Disney acquisition, there have new rumors. Last time we got excited about this, it was non-anamorphic laserdisc-mastered crap.

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

I am not as knowledgeable about certain things as many here, but my understanding is that if it is a "scan" of the film then it has to be the original version.

No, the 1997 version was release on film. Back in those glorious days when cinemas projected 35mm and movies were distributed on film. And even shot that way!

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Only selfish idiots would personally slam a filmmaker, for making creative choices they disagree with. I remember seeing the 1997 edition of A New Hope in theaters, and being very impressed with it. I'd seen the original VHS countless times by then, and none of the changes bothered me. In retrospect, it amazes me that filming had already started on The Phantom Menace, yet most were clueless about it.

Lucas is perfectly entitled to do what he wants with the films he legally owns, regardless of whether or not it removes the work of hundreds of talented technicians and completely rewrites the most important moments in the history of film and western culture. He owns them (or did), that's his right. Doesn't mean he's immune to criticism for doing it.

[Spike M.]

Last I heard Lucas hacking the original negatives to death was an urban legend.

[ambient_indie]

I can remember the commercial on the VHS "faces" Star Wars Trilogy saying..."one last time"

Back then I thought, what does that mean? No more Star Wars Trilogy? Why one last time? It was way too vague.

Jump to 1997. The special editions are released. I was impressed like many fans. And then the slow and steady realization that these were REPLACING the original versions.

That's where my criticism struck. Not the existence of the special editions, but the outright dismissal of the most important versions of the films. The theatrical cuts are the box office successes, the technological cinema changing effects, and what made special editions happen in the first place!

They both deserve a spot in history. The special editions are the first to incorporate CGI into a film made in the 1970's. But most importantly we need new scans of the theatrical cuts.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Last I heard Lucas hacking the original negatives to death was an urban legend.

And even Lucas kind of backed off on that (despite being the one who flatly and unambiguously started it). Toward the end a UOT release started to go from 'impossible' to 'really expensive'.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

He didn't say if it was the unaltered or Lucas' shit version.

It's neither big or clever to swear.

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Last I heard Lucas hacking the original negatives to death was an urban legend.

Again, I am not as knowledgeable about certain things as some around here, but I believe they scan the negative to a file and create the special edition digitally, then into film for projection. I don't think they hacked negatives or did any in camera effects with the negative like the old days.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by ambient_indie

I can remember the commercial on the VHS "faces" Star Wars Trilogy saying..."one last time"

Back then I thought, what does that mean? No more Star Wars Trilogy? Why one last time? It was way too vague.

Jump to 1997. The special editions are released. I was impressed like many fans. And then the slow and steady realization that these were REPLACING the original versions.

That's where my criticism struck. Not the existence of the special editions, but the outright dismissal of the most important versions of the films. The theatrical cuts are the box office successes, the technological cinema changing effects, and what made special editions happen in the first place!

They both deserve a spot in history. The special editions are the first to incorporate CGI into a film made in the 1970's. But most importantly we need new scans of the theatrical cuts.

Yeah, the "faces" VHS box set was my first official set of the movies back when I was 13. When the Special Editions came out, I didn't like everything added but it just came off like an experiment, and it was fun to be able to go see them in the theater so whatever. And then they came out on VHS and laserdisc and it was fine, because you had an excellent release of the originals that had just come out a couple years prior so you could go with either or both.

The real problem occurred in 2004, when DVD had taken over and the long-awaited Star Wars DVD release finally was happening. And we learned that not only were they only the special editions, but there was even more alterations done taken from the prequel trilogy. And that was all you were getting, take it or leave it. Then you had George Lucas talking about the originals being "rough drafts that would deteriorate on old tapes with only the altered versions being remembered over time," which was a really horrible attitude to have about the films and the fans that loved them.

Luckily, Lucas softened on the issue later on, calling the originals the "classic versions that didn't take priority," which wasn't anything to get up and cheer about but it was at least a tiny bit hopeful, and now that Disney owns everything I'm confident a restored UOT release is a question of when and not if..

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

Again, I am not as knowledgeable about certain things as some around here, but I believe they scan the negative to a file and create the special edition digitally, then into film for projection. I don't think they hacked negatives or did any in camera effects with the negative like the old days.

Well the idea is that Lucas wanted the SE to be THE master, which would mean scanning the originals, making the SE changes, printing it back out, and then splicing the changes into the master.

The problem is that that doesn't really make sense because of the color shifts.

[imsounoriginal]

Not to mention that they could easily have saved the bits that were spliced out for the SE. I just can't imagine that they'd be destroyed. At least I hope not.

[Rodney-2187]

I wish Disney would just address it. Say something! Tell us they have no intention of releasing an unaltered version because there isn't enough interest in it. I'd rather hear a no than nothing at all.

[imsounoriginal]

So you'd rather have no hope than some hope?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Then you had George Lucas talking about the originals being "rough drafts that would deteriorate on old tapes with only the altered versions being remembered over time," which was a really horrible attitude to have about the films and the fans that loved them.

Obviously a lot of the bashing over the years has been waaaaaaaay over the top and while I'm not given to hyperbolic statements about being slapped in the face anytime a studio or a director or a politician says something I don't like, that bit in particular was a little hard to take.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Well the idea is that Lucas wanted the SE to be THE master, which would mean scanning the originals, making the SE changes, printing it back out, and then splicing the changes into the master.

The problem is that that doesn't really make sense because of the color shifts.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Not to mention that they could easily have saved the bits that were spliced out for the SE. I just can't imagine that they'd be destroyed. At least I hope not.

Well, we know for sure that the original negative was physically disassembled for cleaning as part of the mid-'90s restoration, with several opticals originally done on CRI stock having faded so badly they had to be replaced with dupes, and the story goes that Lucas did indeed then re-conform the negative to the SE cut inclusive of the new VFX and opticals (because they redid the wipes, fades and dissolves optically).

But I don't believe for a second that those trims were just junked as Lucasfilm has been fastidious about saving everything they possibly can, e.g. just look at the Rogue One stories of recreating Gold & Red Leader from original Star Wars outtakes, as well as them sifting through several different takes of Carrie Fisher's "you're my only hope" dialogue to find just the right usage of "hope" for that end scene).

People might then complain about the missing frames that result from having to recut the original material back together, but digital technology has been able to seamlessly reconstruct missing frames for at least the last 15 years, so it's no biggie. And even IF the worst comes to the worst and the original camera material really is gone, then they can revert to the YCM separations to rebuild whichever parts are missing without having to resort to an IP, IN or even a print.

Basically, with the LFL archive at their disposal and digital technology as powerful as it is today then recreating the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy is eminently achievable. Will it be cheap and easy? HELL no. Can it be done? You bet your ass it can, I even recall Robert A. Harris stating that he could get it done himself for about a million greenbacks a few years ago.

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

So you'd rather have no hope than some hope?

Yes.

I have the unaltered original trilogy on discs in HD, so it's not just about being able to see it. I already can. But I want to give them my money as crazy as it sounds. I want to go into a store and purchase an official release with menus and cases and artwork and special features and all that goes with. I want to get on here and talk about it and see what others think after they see it. I just want that experience for myself and others.