Star Wars: The Original Trilogy (1977-1983)

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D

As fun as some parts of the film were, I could without compunction cut out RotJ and have a two film "trilogy". How sound does this sound?

It's a bit like Endgame: an less impressive retread of what was done before. Similarly the Infinity Saga for me ends with Infinity War.

Without RotJ, Vader is still cool, as is Boba Fett. Similar to how without Endgame, Thor and Thanos are still cool.

Han Solo is always great in the OT, but I'm more partial to having him be left defiantly frozen than have that goofy blind fight, and then spend the final battle basically bleeding out while Lando does all the cool space battle stuff with Han's ship. I like Lando, but that was a little like Anakin taking out the trade federation in the Naboo fighter.

Without RotJ, there's no creepy bro/sis stuff that needs to be awkwardly explained away.

I disagree but that’s OK. I’m glad they gave Lando what they did. His character was quite interesting starting at the end of TESB. Han needed to be unfrozen, IMO.

The bro/sis issue is awkward. But, it doesn’t hurt the overall film. IIRC, Luke and Leia weren’t even going to be related until George got to ROTJ. That explains the kiss in empire.

[Mikezilla3k]

Return of the best of both the OT and Star Wars

[spider-neil]

I'm not a fan of RotJ at all. The Luke/Vadar/Emperor stuff is of course great but everything else in the movie I can take or leave. I hated the Ewok stuff as a kid and this opinion hasn't changed as an adult. I didn't even know they changed the yab yab song at the end because I always check out of the movie long before that part.

I would definitely watch Force Awakens before RotJ.

[Just_Discovered_3D]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

I disagree but that’s OK. I’m glad they gave Lando what they did. His character was quite interesting starting at the end of TESB. Han needed to be unfrozen, IMO.

The bro/sis issue is awkward. But, it doesn’t hurt the overall film. IIRC, Luke and Leia weren’t even going to be related until George got to ROTJ. That explains the kiss in empire.

I wonder if Alec Guinness' cynicism during the filming rubbed off on Harrison Ford as the man seems so glum over Han Solo. First Han gets frozen, then he gets shot and sidelined, finally he gets Darth Maul'd...and we find out that Ford wanted Han killed off years ago. I don't get why those two actors got so butthurt over their Star Wars roles

After A New Hope, I could believe that blowing up the Death Star stopped the Empire. But then The Empire Strikes Back happened and it revealed that the Empire was still completely dominating the galaxy even without their wunderweapon. After RotJ, when I see a Death Star blow up and a celebration happening over "we did it, we defeated the Empire!", I have my doubts

On Lando, I like his character (even if he was written in for questionable reasons), and maybe he needed a redemption arc, but why couldn't he be the "boots on the ground" and Han & Chewy be flying the Falcon? Nothing about Lando established that he was some Maverick-tier ace pilot capable of doing that run through the Death Star.

[spanky87]

The ending of Star Wars.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D

I wonder if Alec Guinness' cynicism during the filming rubbed off on Harrison Ford as the man seems so glum over Han Solo. First Han gets frozen, then he gets shot and sidelined, finally he gets Darth Maul'd...and we find out that Ford wanted Han killed off years ago. I don't get why those two actors got so butthurt over their Star Wars roles

After A New Hope, I could believe that blowing up the Death Star stopped the Empire. But then The Empire Strikes Back happened and it revealed that the Empire was still completely dominating the galaxy even without their wunderweapon. After RotJ, when I see a Death Star blow up and a celebration happening over "we did it, we defeated the Empire!", I have my doubts

On Lando, I like his character (even if he was written in for questionable reasons), and maybe he needed a redemption arc, but why couldn't he be the "boots on the ground" and Han & Chewy be flying the Falcon? Nothing about Lando established that he was some Maverick-tier ace pilot capable of doing that run through the Death Star.

I know Ford wanted Solo killed off. Wasn’t up to him, LOL. What’s the Darth Mail reference? Han didn’t get cut in half and fall down a deep shaft?

No question that the second Death Star blow up in ROTJ was a lazy plot decision. I wish they could have come up with something better for that. I can see how the empire would still be well funded and manned after the first Death Star loss. This is why the sequels don’t make much sense. "Somehow" the empire has yet another super weapon Death Star thing. Somehow, even after two crushing losses they still just have an endless supply of guys and funding. There is no exposition or anything about this at all. It’s just "Palpatine was behind it all". I see. Lame.

The OT isn’t perfect, we all know that. But it’s a complete, concise trilogy with a beginning and a definite end. IMO.

Originally Posted by spanky87

The ending of Star Wars.

Correct. The Skywalker saga ENDS right here. It’s all buttoned up and sealed. Ready to shelve it. We’re done.

[mcrowell415]

Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D

On Lando, I like his character (even if he was written in for questionable reasons), and maybe he needed a redemption arc, but why couldn't he be the "boots on the ground" and Han & Chewy be flying the Falcon? Nothing about Lando established that he was some Maverick-tier ace pilot capable of doing that run through the Death Star.

"Someone must have told them about my little maneuver at the Battle of Taanab" spoken to Han Solo before he loans the Falcon. In my mind when I first saw it that in my mind told me he was a great pilot even though I had no idea what he was talking about.

[Zivouhr]

Return of the Jedi is a lot of fun overall IMO, if one can accept that Ewoks are teddy bear-like creatures that live on Endor in the forests. Originally, Lucas wanted the Wookies in there, but settled for Ewoks probably to lower the costs of production, considering 6 foot 5 inches tall basketball players would require a lot more material. I forget what the actual reason was for why he went with Ewoks. I like the Ewoks, and even bought the Ewoks 2 pack DVD movie set.

When Wicket meets Leia, that was entertaining when I saw that as a small kid in theaters back in 1983, as Wicket looked at Leia's helmet and thought it was a weapon when she removed it, grabbing his spear as if to defend himself.

Then the biker scouts showed up.

The Speeder bikes were incredible going through the forests at high speed.
Amazing action scene despite some tracking issues with the scenery and the actors.

[Jay H.]

I love the original trilogy. SW, TESB, ROTJ - all three are terrific movies.

[Zivouhr]

Empire Strikes Back has some major scenes, although it's probably the slowest paced of the original 3 films, with a significant time in training or in downtime when not in danger.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Empire Strikes Back has some major scenes, although it's probably the slowest paced of the original 3 films, with a significant time in training or in downtime when not in danger.

True - Empire is the slowest moving but its such a solid overall film. Our heroes take a beating. Vader is unleashed after being #2 to Tarkin or even possibly lower. A lot happens here.

Great stuff. . TESB is up next for me as I continue my SW marathon. Just watched A New Hope this afternoon. Ive been on stay-cation since December 19th so I can do some matinees. Love watching movies in the afternoon. All looking terrific on the new 77" Sony OLED!

[moreorless]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Return of the Jedi is a lot of fun overall IMO, if one can accept that Ewoks are teddy bear-like creatures that live on Endor in the forests. Originally, Lucas wanted the Wookies in there, but settled for Ewoks probably to lower the costs of production, considering 6 foot 5 inches tall basketball players would require a lot more material. I forget what the actual reason was for why he went with Ewoks. I like the Ewoks, and even bought the Ewoks 2 pack DVD movie set.

When Wicket meets Leia, that was entertaining when I saw that as a small kid in theaters back in 1983, as Wicket looked at Leia's helmet and thought it was a weapon when she removed it, grabbing his spear as if to defend himself.

Then the biker scouts showed up.

The Speeder bikes were incredible going through the forests at high speed.
Amazing action scene despite some tracking issues with the scenery and the actors.

I do think a lot of the negativity around them comes from us sci fi geeks of the past having very thin skins. Really that kind of content struggled for credibility so much that I think often the idea of any kind of humour was looked down on by the fanbase. Even up until the 90's I remember the fanbase of something like the X-files for example often hated more humorous episodes yet these days a lot of them are considered the shows best.

I tend to think if ROTJ has a problem is probably moreso that the Han/Leia plot lacks a bit of dramatic weight after the Jabba sequence, it could have used a bit more genuine danger to it even if Han wasnt killed off to stand up to the Luke/Vader stuff and the space battle. As it is I think its still very entertaining though and the Ewoks are genuinely charming in a way none of the attempts to follow them since in SW have been IMHO.

I can see the case it maybe the worst of the originals but I think it absolutely towers over any of the prequels(unless you include Rogue One) and the sequels, a great film with maybe a few flaws you could point out rather than fundamentally mediocre cinema your having to look for the odd decent moment in.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by moreorless

I do think a lot of the negativity around them comes from us sci fi geeks of the past having very thin skins. Really that kind of content struggled for credibility so much that I think often the idea of any kind of humour was looked down on by the fanbase. Even up until the 90's I remember the fanbase of something like the X-files for example often hated more humorous episodes yet these days a lot of them are considered the shows best.

I tend to think if ROTJ has a problem is probably moreso that the Han/Leia plot lacks a bit of dramatic weight after the Jabba sequence, it could have used a bit more genuine danger to it even if Han wasnt killed off to stand up to the Luke/Vader stuff and the space battle. As it is I think its still very entertaining though and the Ewoks are genuinely charming in a way none of the attempts to follow them since in SW have been IMHO.

I can see the case it maybe the worst of the originals but I think it absolutely towers over any of the prequels(unless you include Rogue One) and the sequels, a great film with maybe a few flaws you could point out rather than fundamentally mediocre cinema your having to look for the odd decent moment in.

Mostly agree here although I am a certified prequel fan. ROTJ, as I have stated with facts/bullet points, ends the Skywalker saga too. The image posted a few posts up by Spanky87 says it all. The ending is terrific.

I wouldnt even say ROTJ is the worst of the originals. I have it tied with TESB as #2a and #2b. A little Ewok silliness cant knock it down that much!

[Kylo_Ren]

For me, it's hard to pin down and it often varies. However, if I had to rank them as films and in terms of craftsmanship, it probably goes:

1.) The Empire Strikes Back
2.) A New Hope
3.) Return of the Jedi

But all three are fantastic films, absolute classics! Some of my favorite films of all time! A New Hope and Return of the Jedi are almost tied for me and my ranking of them often swaps between the two.

In terms of entertainment value, I'd probably give the edge to RotJ, especially the third act. The space battle edited together with the battle of Endor AND Luke vs. Vader is greatness. On the other hand, A New Hope is more of a contained experience with a tighter story and the sheer impact it had on the film industry is undeniable. I think ANH also uses its first act more wisely. And it is also less divisive than Return of the Jedi as there were no Ewoks.

But I personally don't mind the Ewoks in RotJ.

[Zivouhr]

Thanks. I'm surprised there are very few Ewok appearances in new films/series.

As far as the Emperor, this was one of his best films playing the character (by actor Ian McDiarmid, spelling?). I really like his opening scene on the Death Star 2, and how worried the leader was when he heard the Emperor is visiting to check on the progress, and was most displeased with the apparent lack of progress, requiring the leader to double their efforts. Vader saying, He hopes so, for his sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving as Vader. Vader, forgiving?

The Ugnaughts from Empire's Carbon chamber scene, appear again in The Mandalorian series and even have a new figure of that character. Hopefully a lone Ewok will get an adventure film. Maybe the offspring of Wicket, an old man by now.

[spider-neil]

1. ESB
2. Star Wars
.
.
.
3. Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. The Last Jedi
.
.
.
7. Rise of Skywalker
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones

For me there is a massive gap between 1 and 2 and the rest. The bottom three movies I’ll probably never watch again.

[moreorless]

The ironic thing I find is people point to the Ewoks as a reason why a film like The Force Awakens is "better" than ROTJ but to me the general tone of Force Awakens owes more to the Ewok sections of ROTJ than it does any other part of the original trilogy and whats more does it worse, at least sections like Han when their captured by them were genuinely funny and charming.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by moreorless

The ironic thing I find is people point to the Ewoks as a reason why a film like The Force Awakens is "better" than ROTJ but to me the general tone of Force Awakens owes more to the Ewok sections of ROTJ than it does any other part of the original trilogy and whats more does it worse, at least sections like Han when their captured by them were genuinely funny and charming.

No way TFA is better than ROTJ, IMO. TFA was simply the safest and most basic way to kick off the sequel series. It worked for the most part, I suppose. It at least didn’t butcher anything. The problem with TFA is that when it ends you are then staring down the barrel of watching the next two films which of course doesn’t always go over well.

Hence, I probably will never watch the sequels again. Nothing missed that I care about, nothing to see. The original characters are what matter and they are reduced to mostly cameos and "hey, I’m in this movie" moments.

Or worse, their characters don’t get proper treatment. And they all die. No thanks. Its depressing!!!

[Just_Discovered_3D]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

No way TFA is better than ROTJ, IMO. TFA was simply the safest and most basic way to kick off the sequel series. It worked for the most part, I suppose. It at least didn’t butcher anything. The problem with TFA is that when it ends you are then staring down the barrel of watching the next two films which of course doesn’t always go over well.

Hence, I probably will never watch the sequels again. Nothing missed that I care about, nothing to see. The original characters are what matter and they are reduced to mostly cameos and "hey, I’m in this movie" moments.

Or worse, their characters don’t get proper treatment. And they all die. No thanks. Its depressing!!!

While I believe Lando flying the Falcon in RotJ is like if Iceman had flown the main mission in TGM, it was no where near as shocking as Rey showing off how she was more adept with the Falcon than Han was. At least Lando had owned the ship before, what Rey did to Han there was like if Rooster had been savvier with the F-14 than Maverick.

Instead, Rooster was written logically: unfamiliar with the workings of the old "hunk of junk" relic he was about to fly in.


Harrison Ford has spent the past 20 years largely having a pained "KMN" look on his face in his roles. When Rey goofily tells him that she improved the Falcon, I could understand that look of his.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D

Rey showing off how she was more adept with the Falcon than Han was. .

You have to marvel at how people still invent things that never happened in order to be upset at them. She didn't improve the ship. She removed an "improvement" made by Unkar that she had knowledge and experience of but which Han couldn't have. But I can see how a fragile ego would feel pressed to spin it as some kind of undue humiliation.

Don't recall anyone getting their knickers in a twist at Leia shouting orders at Lando about how to rescue Luke from the top of "HIS" ship in ESB. Or constantly insulting the condition of the ship and Han's ability to get it going.