Star Wars: The Original Trilogy (1977-1983)

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by dgoswald

If anything his Force ghost should've been his form in EP II prior to the senseless killing of the Sand People's women and children. Unless Lucas is suggesting that by merely being Sand People is more than enough justification for being murdered, regardless of whether they were involved in any questionable activities related to the kidnap, torture, and suggested rape of Anakin's mother.

#SandPeople'sLivesMatter

LMAO got a good laugh out of that.

And yeah, I think Lucas was more concerned about Anakin pre-Dark Side, not pre-Sand People massacre. Frankly that's one of the OT changes that never really bothered me, but more because I can't stand RotJ anyway and replacing one useless actor with another isn't going to make the movie any better or worse.

[dgoswald]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Don't forget all them poor Geonosians that Ani slices and dices too. IIRC Lucas even says on the commentary that it's good they're non-human because he wouldn't be able to cut them up like that (due to the rating) if they were humanoid

I can't say I was too cut up about that annoying Japanese fish-alien person and his mate getting their comeuppance.

[mrr1]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't mind the HaydenGhost change in principle but the way they did it was beyond terrrible, starting with some weird smirking outtake of HC and then Mr creepy starey eyes for the rest of it.

Totally. Didn't they have footage of Hayden at least cracking a big happy, friendly smile or something?

[SethRex]

I have to bring this up. Just what is everyone's TRUE opinion on Boba Fett? And I don't mean as a whole in the EU, since none of that matters anymore anyway. I'm talking about Boba Fett as seen in Empire and Jedi.

Honestly, I think he's all talk and nothing else. People claim he's the shit but all he does is stand around, talk shit, and the one good thing he did was track Han Solo down by merely following him to Cloud City. It'd have made more sense to his legend if he actually captured Solo himself, but no, Vader and crew does that. And how does he go out? He gets knocked around and falls into the Sarlac simply cause he didn't mind his surroundings and Han was able to get that shot in. He literally does absolutely nothing in 2 films. Jango did more in 1 film than Boba did in 2. Sorry, but that's the way the Rex sees it.

[stvn1974]

"Here Lies Boba Fett
Bad Ass Bounty Hunter
Killed By Blind Man Who Turned Around"


should be on his tombstone.

[dgoswald]

Originally Posted by SethRex

I have to bring this up. Just what is everyone's TRUE opinion on Boba Fett? And I don't mean as a whole in the EU, since none of that matters anymore anyway. I'm talking about Boba Fett as seen in Empire and Jedi.

Don't see the big deal with him tbh. Mystified by the adoration he gets from fans. Am I missing something?

[Astro Zombie]

He has a cool looking suit

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by SethRex

I have to bring this up. Just what is everyone's TRUE opinion on Boba Fett? And I don't mean as a whole in the EU, since none of that matters anymore anyway. I'm talking about Boba Fett as seen in Empire and Jedi.

Honestly, I think he's all talk and nothing else. People claim he's the shit but all he does is stand around, talk shit, and the one good thing he did was track Han Solo down by merely following him to Cloud City. It'd have made more sense to his legend if he actually captured Solo himself, but no, Vader and crew does that. And how does he go out? He gets knocked around and falls into the Sarlac simply cause he didn't mind his surroundings and Han was able to get that shot in. He literally does absolutely nothing in 2 films. Jango did more in 1 film than Boba did in 2. Sorry, but that's the way the Rex sees it.

I've always liked him a lot regardless of how he died; his lame-ass death is something I blame more on the general awfulness of RotJ than on the character. He's still cool.

[MechaGodzilla]

I like Boba, he looks cool and has presence and that's enough for the character. I don't even mind his death, in fact I like it. There's something fun about this supposedly skilled, feared bounty hunter dying in a humorous and random way like that. It feels true to life in a way; no matter how great someone is that doesn't mean they will get a big, epic death to match their reputation. Death can be very sudden and undignified, and it often is.

[Astro Zombie]

[Geoff D]

I think Vader's bit about "noooooo disintegrations" to Fett is what cemented his status as a badass, if Vader's telling him to cool it then he must be a nutter.

I did like the Tales of the Bounty Hunters books back in the day, they covered not only Fett but Dengar, Bossk, 4-LOM, IG-88 etc. I think I'm right in saying that the latter ended up as the brain of the Death Star II. Ah, the wonders of the EU.

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think Vader's bit about "noooooo disintegrations" to Fett is what cemented his status as a badass, if Vader's telling him to cool it then he must be a nutter.

I did like the Tales of the Bounty Hunters books back in the day, they covered not only Fett but Dengar, Bossk, 4-LOM, IG-88 etc. I think I'm right in saying that the latter ended up as the brain of the Death Star II. Ah, the wonders of the EU.

Yep, Vader's line absolutely solidified his undisputed bad-ass status. It told the audience with one line and gesture that Boba Fett is a ruthless, kill-first, ask-questions-later bounty hunter. It's a shame we never really got to see him in action aside from Cloud City and on Jabba's barge (which I'll admit, how Fett was handled is one of the most disappointing things about ROTJ).

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

The only problem with that is the most heroic thing Anakin/Vader did in the movies was killing the Emperor to save his son. Why would his ghost revert back to the cry baby that killed kids 2 minutes after joining the dark side?

If you view the younger Anakin as an inherent weakling with no redeeming value, then its hard to explain what Lucas was aiming for. From his own statements on the commentary, plus interviews and such, Lucas basically wrote Anakin as a "reverse Christ" figure. He's the one guy in all the galaxy that no one thinks would ever go bad; in fact, they expect the ultimate goodness from him, at all times. However, Anakin's still a fallible human being, prone to the same failures as the rest of us...and his biggest weakness was fear of loss. The kind of pressure he was under would crack almost anyone's resolve, and losing his mother only increased his desperation. He didn't know who to trust; the Jedi had become too blinded by tradition, and Palpatine promised him the power to save those closest to him. Its very much like Jesus being tempted by Satan in the desert from Scripture; the fallen angel offers Him every comfort possible, if only He will compromise His integrity. But unlike the Messiah in that account, Anakin submits to his weakness, believing the Jedi would never accept him after aiding in Mace Windu's death. That was the moment of Darth Vader's birth: Anakin believing the classic lie that he wasn't worth saving. He saw himself as a monster, and Palpatine gleefully pulled his strings like a ventriloquist's dummy.

By the time "Return of the Jedi" takes place, Vader's become a kind of Gollum figure, both loving and hating the darkness within himself. When Luke begs him to let go of his hate, you can tell he wants to...but he fears the wrath of his "master" too much. He's done so much killing across a 25-year time span; we only see a very small portion of it. Those outside view him as the ultimate evil, but Vader knows different; he's a doomed slave to someone infinitely worse than he could ever be. Vader believes Luke is strong enough to defeat Palpatine, but he also thinks that strength comes from embracing darkness. When Luke refuses to kill him after cutting his hand off, you get the sense Vader's somewhat confused for a second...until Palpatine's wrath finally shows him the truth. In that moment, Anakin realizes there's only one choice: both Sith have to die. That act restores the former Jedi to the light...which for Lucas, means his spiritual form reverts to the last time he was ever pure.

[KRW1]

I met Boba Fett when I was a kid, blew my mind. After Empire came out, he did a personal appearance at a toy shop. I'm pretty sure I still have his autograph somewhere, wonder what it's worth? He signed 'Boba Fett' across a picture of himself.

Mind, it has occurred to me since, it might just have been a random bloke in a suit.

[JasonHensley]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

If you view the younger Anakin as an inherent weakling with no redeeming value, then its hard to explain what Lucas was aiming for. From his own statements on the commentary, plus interviews and such, Lucas basically wrote Anakin as a "reverse Christ" figure. He's the one guy in all the galaxy that no one thinks would ever go bad; in fact, they expect the ultimate goodness from him, at all times. However, Anakin's still a fallible human being, prone to the same failures as the rest of us...and his biggest weakness was fear of loss. The kind of pressure he was under would crack almost anyone's resolve, and losing his mother only increased his desperation. He didn't know who to trust; the Jedi had become too blinded by tradition, and Palpatine promised him the power to save those closest to him. Its very much like Jesus being tempted by Satan in the desert from Scripture; the fallen angel offers Him every comfort possible, if only He will compromise His integrity. But unlike the Messiah in that account, Anakin submits to his weakness, believing the Jedi would never accept him after aiding in Mace Windu's death. That was the moment of Darth Vader's birth: Anakin believing the classic lie that he wasn't worth saving. He saw himself as a monster, and Palpatine gleefully pulled his strings like a ventriloquist's dummy.

By the time "Return of the Jedi" takes place, Vader's become a kind of Gollum figure, both loving and hating the darkness within himself. When Luke begs him to let go of his hate, you can tell he wants to...but he fears the wrath of his "master" too much. He's done so much killing across a 25-year time span; we only see a very small portion of it. Those outside view him as the ultimate evil, but Vader knows different; he's a doomed slave to someone infinitely worse than he could ever be. Vader believes Luke is strong enough to defeat Palpatine, but he also thinks that strength comes from embracing darkness. When Luke refuses to kill him after cutting his hand off, you get the sense Vader's somewhat confused for a second...until Palpatine's wrath finally shows him the truth. In that moment, Anakin realizes there's only one choice: both Sith have to die. That act restores the former Jedi to the light...which for Lucas, means his spiritual form reverts to the last time he was ever pure.

To bad your description of Anakin in the PT isn't displayed onscreen well. Everyone knows there's an interesting concept behind the terrible acting, poor directing, over abundance of CGI, and terrible pacing but movies can't go on a concept that is written on paper alone. Again, the hate for the PT comes from what is on screen.

[Moviefan2k4]

I'll grant you that the pacing is bad on "Sith", and a select few of the blue-screen shots needed more work...but overall, I still like most of the prequels.

[SkyderHouseMafia]

Originally Posted by dgoswald

If there's any SW die-hards reading, is it still worth reading some of the best books from the recently erased extended universe? Are there any that look into the various societies / communities in greater detail, or is it mostly fighting and whatnot between major characters?

Cloak of Deception explains in great detail all the events procceding TPM. Really adds a lot of depth and weight to the movie.

Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter is fantastic. Set on coruscant, mostly in the seedly underworld. Maul hunts a man. Thrilling stuff. If you're a fan of maul you'll like this!

There are a few more but those are the two I remember the most!

[SkyderHouseMafia]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

I've always just chalked this up to George forcefully inserting something from the PT into the OT. Hayden showing up as a force ghost was probably his worst offense in that regard.

I actually don't mind Hayden as a force ghost too much (things like Vader's nooo is a million times worse imo)...BUT if you make the decision to put Hayden in...make them all young! eg. Mcgregor, Hayden and a younger Yoda...OR have them all old, Shaw, Guiness and old Yoda. Having a young Anakin and old Obi and Yoda makes no sense.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by SkyderHouseMafia

I actually don't mind Hayden as a force ghost too much (things like Vader's nooo is a million times worse imo)...BUT if you make the decision to put Hayden in...make them all young! eg. Mcgregor, Hayden and a younger Yoda...OR have them all old, Shaw, Guiness and old Yoda. Having a young Anakin and old Obi and Yoda makes no sense.

It's a spiritual thing, at least, how I read it. If the whole Force Ghost thing was literal, Anakin would be an old, charred, legless stump on the ground waving at Luke with one left arm. Anakin appearing as his purer soul before he lost himself is not an issue for me.

[dgoswald]

Purists will most likely baulk at the changes made to the OT (even the 1997 edits), but watching ANH a few days ago I thought most were quite decent, with a few falling into a grey area of "good but unnecessary."

My favourite addition is the X-wing group shot as they fly towards the Death Star. That added to the feeling of anticipation at the battle ahead.

The one completely unnecessary edit was the various shots over the course of 30 seconds of that stegosaur-type creature in Mos Eisley, that rears up on to its hind legs as Luke and Obi arrive. That particular example doesn't really enhance those moments except for, IMO, Lucas showing off his CG skills back in 1997. The bit where the arse of another creature obscures the screen as it lumbers across when Luke and Obi are stopped by the Stormtroopers was completely unnecessary. Although the tiny CG bots that hover around in Eisley are a decent addition; they added to what might have been the sparseness of the original scene.

Hans running into a large group of Stormtroopers on the Death Star was decent too, as opposed to a handful of troopers in the original scene. Although for some reason I didn't quite buy the CG in that particular shot; seemed a bit out of place.