Star Wars: The Original Trilogy (1977-1983)

[Michael24]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

"I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you—I can't breathe. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating...hoping that kiss will not become a scar."

This makes me think of an exchange I've always liked from the first National Treasure, when Diane Kruger says "nobody talks that way" and Nic Cage replies, "But they think that way." Reading that dialog, it makes total sense to me intellectually, and I can completely understand those kinds of feelings. Written the way it is, though, it comes across as corny and awkward because it's so unlike how people actually talk and express their feelings, even if it does make sense.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Michael24

This makes me think of an exchange I've always liked from the first National Treasure, when Diane Kruger says "nobody talks that way" and Nic Cage replies, "But they think that way." Reading that dialog, it makes total sense to me intellectually, and I can completely understand those kinds of feelings. Written the way it is, though, it comes across as corny and awkward because it's so unlike how people actually talk and express their feelings, even if it does make sense.

That's the trick of writing, especially for movies. You need to get at what they are thinking in a natural way, so it comes off in their words and actions without them just saying it. Lucas fell into the trap of just having the dialog explain their feelings, essentially failing the "show don't tell" rule.

He does this in other instances as well, like having Anakin recite dialog such as-- "I want more, and I know I shouldn't." That same school of thought is what made Lucas add "NOOOO!" to end of Jedi, even thought it took away what made the moment so brilliant. He didn't let it just play out visually, he thought the audience needed Vader to say aloud what was on his mind, and IMO it was much worse.

Notice how everybody is always raving about that one scene in Sith? The silent, starting out at the window scene? It's so much more memorable than anything in Episode II or most of III because it conveys so much without having to say what's going through the character's mind.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Notice how everybody is always raving about that one scene in Sith? The silent, starting out at the window scene? It's so much more memorable than anything in Episode II or most of III because it conveys so much without having to say what's going through the character's mind.

There is dialogue in that scene though, just very faint amidst the music. Palpatine reaches out to Anakin through the Force, reminding him that only he can help save Padme. I think the line is something like this: "You know, don't you? If the Jedi capture me, all chance of saving her is lost." That final taunting by the would-be Emperor is what clinched things for Anakin. He surrendered to desperation, and Palpatine was relying on it.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

As far as I'm concerned, the "romance" in Fifty Shades makes Attack of the Clones look like Casablanca.

Well that's because Anakin and Padme, for all their faults, actually HAVE a romance. There is nothing romantic about Christian and Anastasia. He is an abusive creep, and Ana is a submissive idiot. There is nothing good about there relationship, and it completely has no idea what S&M relationships actually are like. There's a good deal of information out there as to why that relationship is not ok. It's actually quite harmful.

Anakin is just a doofy written cheeseball. And that's totally fine. Padme geniuenly cares about him. The dialogue is stilted and dumb, but it's bearable. Unlike 50 Shades.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Michael24

This makes me think of an exchange I've always liked from the first National Treasure, when Diane Kruger says "nobody talks that way" and Nic Cage replies, "But they think that way." Reading that dialog, it makes total sense to me intellectually, and I can completely understand those kinds of feelings. Written the way it is, though, it comes across as corny and awkward because it's so unlike how people actually talk and express their feelings, even if it does make sense.

Funny, this reminds me of the 40th anniversary panel at Celebration, where Hamill was talking about exactly that. He recalled that old line he managed to convince Lucas to remove from the first film:

"'But we can't turn back, fear is their greatest defense, I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust and what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault."

And he was saying, all of it makes sense on an intellectual level, you get what it means, but it's soooo unnatural and awkward to actually say it. It's nothing like how people actually talk. It's a problem of Lucas', going all the way back to the beginning - but the actors he worked with then were perhaps more likely to protest the real bad clunkers, heh.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Beautifully stated, sir. IMO the market for the truly unaltered originals with crappy sound, non-anamorphic presentation & whatever else is probably very small indeed.

I think what people really want are the special editions with a few of the "bleh" stuff removed like Han Shot first and that awful Jedi rocks song. Other than that stuff the special editons are much better than the unaltered orignals.

Well, even though I said above that I don't believe there really is that large a market for the unaltered originals, there's no reason if they were released that they would have to be released with crappy sound - I'm sure the original mag tracks still exist and there's no reason why they couldn't be released using the full 2.35 frame (if the 35mm is used as a source) or 2.2:1 frame (if the 70mm interneg is used as the source). As a matter of fact, since the originals were totally analog, the sound should be quite sweet sounding, if the original mag tracks aren't damaged. My point above was simply that if you want the originals the way they were originally seen, they would be in either mono or Left-Center-Right-Mono Surround plus the low frequency channels from the 70mm version could be sent to the .1 channel.

Back in the day, I always found it strange that Lucas never went for 70mm split surround, which was first used in 1979 for Apocalypse Now (it was also used in one or two 70 prints in a small section of Superman). It certainly could have been used for Episodes V and VI.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I honestly fail to understand why so many ridicule the romance aspects in the prequels. Are those who believe in genuine love (and not just sex) really becoming a minority?

Speaking only for myself, I ridicule the romance in the prequels because it's so terribly written and so terribly executed.

The romance in Empire was awesome. The romance in Jedi and Clones was cringeworthy. The romance in Sith was somewhere in between.

Originally Posted by Hardback247

It's a form of romance called "courtly love."

Every quarterback who throws an interception is trying to hit one of his own receivers. Every batter who strikes out is trying to hit the ball. Every business that goes bankrupt is trying to make money.

What Lucas might have been trying to do is far less relevant than whether he succeeded. It might be possible for a contemporary adventure film to channel 500 year old courtship rituals in an engaging and entertaining way but the prequels simply did not pull that off.

Sorry

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Funny, this reminds me of the 40th anniversary panel at Celebration, where Hamill was talking about exactly that. He recalled that old line he managed to convince Lucas to remove from the first film:

"'But we can't turn back, fear is their greatest defense, I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust and what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault."

And he was saying, all of it makes sense on an intellectual level, you get what it means, but it's soooo unnatural and awkward to actually say it. It's nothing like how people actually talk. It's a problem of Lucas', going all the way back to the beginning - but the actors he worked with then were perhaps more likely to protest the real bad clunkers, heh.

More like they had the ability to tell him no. Lucas wasn't an icon yet. It wasn't considered a blessing worthy of begging your contacts to get you in as just an extra. Telling Lucas no in ANH was just telling your director no. Telling Lucas no in the prequels was like spitting in the face of a mob boss. It just didn't happen. Sadly, we have no idea if Lucas would have been ok with criticism like that, simply because people just didn't even try. They believed he knew best.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

More like they had the ability to tell him no. Lucas wasn't an icon yet. It wasn't considered a blessing worthy of begging your contacts to get you in as just an extra. Telling Lucas no in ANH was just telling your director no. Telling Lucas no in the prequels was like spitting in the face of a mob boss. It just didn't happen. Sadly, we have no idea if Lucas would have been ok with criticism like that, simply because people just didn't even try. They believed he knew best.

Yeah, I realize it was different for a number of reasons. Obviously, after all those decades and his growing in fame, fortune and power (and indeed the reverence for the franchise itself), he would be much more intimidating to work for than he was while they were shooting the first film.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Notice how everybody is always raving about that one scene in Sith? The silent, starting out at the window scene? It's so much more memorable than anything in Episode II or most of III because it conveys so much without having to say what's going through the character's mind.

There's another really good scene in Sith that directly applies to the whole romance angle. The bit on the balcony where she starts teasing him by deliberately misinterpreting his words and he playfully tries to get out of her verbal traps was really good, I thought.

For one (all too brief) moment they actually felt like a real couple that actually felt something real for each other.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by octagon

There's another really good scene in Sith that directly applies to the whole romance angle. The bit on the balcony where she starts teasing him by deliberately misinterpreting his words and he playfully tries to get out of her verbal traps was really good, I thought.

For one (all too brief) moment they actually felt like a real couple that actually felt something real for each other.

The exchange about love blinding Anakin? I think I remember that scene, it was actually decent (on an absolute scale). Of course that means I rated it about 6 std. deviations higher than that film's average dialogue score.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by svenge

The exchange about love blinding Anakin? I think I remember that scene, it was actually decent (on an absolute scale). Of course that means I rated it about 6 std. deviations higher than that film's average dialogue score.

Yeah, that's the one.

[Rodney-2187]

Control Panel Shoots First - YouTube

[aiman04]

Just FYI the romance scenes in Clones mostly written by Jonathan Hales. Kindly refer to the making-of book.

[Petey Parker]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

[Show spoiler]Control Panel Shoots First - YouTube

Ha ha that's over 10 years old and I've never seen it before.

[Ernest Rister]

Well, I think I figured out what's coming on 7/28/17...and it's not Star Wars. I think it's the first two episodes of the ABC Marvel TV series, The Inhumans, which was shot in partnership with IMAX and will receive a limited two-week run in IMAX.

From the Hollywood Reporter last November:

Foster said the first two episodes of The Inhumans, around 80 minutes of content, will debut exclusively in Imax theaters across all territories on or around Sept. 1, ahead of a two-week theatrical run. ABC will then premiere the first episode of the TV drama on Sept. 26. All eight episodes are expected to run on the network over consecutive Tuesdays, barring unforeseen interruptions.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...nhumans-951191

The Inhumans is also listed on the official IMAX website with a September 1 date.

https://www.imax.com/movies/marvels-inhumans

So, unless Star Wars is going to play 7/28-7/31, sounds like the mystery "untitled live action fairy tale" is The Inhumans.

[captveg]

I don't know, that's two months before its premiere on TV. Too big of a gap to have any marketing value, IMO.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by captveg

I don't know, that's two months before its premiere on TV. Too big of a gap to have any marketing value, IMO.

Man, I had just had the most epic brain fart of my life...maybe my first senior moment. Incredibly, the month following July is not September, it's this nasty hot month called August. How did that happen...maybe I need to start taking these...

[Ernest Rister]

[captveg]

Ha! Well, we all have our moments.

Besides, I always thought the old Roman calendar before they added July and August was underrated.