4K Movies Releases

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

true, but in terms of shooting, DI, and then DCP encoding it was

4K - 2K - 4K (not ideal in my book).

Hm?

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

JW wasn't finished @ 4K though, according to Penton the source DI itself was finished at about 2.4K.

Big shout to the studio for futureproofing all that work for about 10 or 11 weeks.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Hm?

oh disregard my nonsensical ramblings ... must be another movie rattling around in my brain.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Simply, what most consumers might really appreciate in knowing for certain, rather than speculating about it is whether a Dolby Vision movie can play back HDR10 on a non-Dolby Vision TV (having only HDR10 as solution). I’ve read many posts on this forum where the presumption by members is that they will not.

I have read that Dolby Vision can use an enhancement layer on top of HDR10.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

So anyway, now that the Premium specs milestone has been achieved, one might ask, what’s up next on the Standards front? but now working in a comparatively more complex scenario, how to go from the camera all the way thru to the consumer TV?

Well, current work be centered on investigating and achieving a consistent HDR image on a monitor by using an OOTF framework for incorporating the PQ transfer function and the hybrid log gamma solution for the EIDR (aka HDR] standard for broadcast (given its live nature) this year with hopefully some documented progress made next month.

Hopefully that will go well in the ITU and they will be able to select the HDR systems for broadcast as well.

[5meohd]

So I'm headed to Revenant at a Dolby Cinema.. What do you think I will actually get?

So far I went to Inside Out, The Martian and Star Wars VII. Inside Out was the only one that seemed "better" than my Panasonic ST50 with blu-ray. The other two seemed to be similar. Whereas.. typical 2k presentations (and even Hateful Eight in 70mm) seem much worse than my home setup.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I thought the UHD Blu iteration of Dolby Vision uses an HDR10 base layer anyway? Or do you mean the Dolby Vision rollout across all delivery formats (which may use different layer options or may even be the single layer solution)?

I mean the later…..especially in reference to OTT (streaming) because although we all love our discs, you have to figure that some (or many?) consumers who drive the business by purchasing Ultra HD Premium logoed TVs will stream at least some of their 4K HDR movies, rather than watching their movies solely on Ultra HD Blu-ray discs.

Also, even with the ability of players to recognize and play the baseline SMPTE 2084 standard layer on the DV discs, something to keep in mind is that despite the UHD Alliance Ultra HD Premium designation, the criteria are far from perfect in guaranteeing reproducible creative intent consistency in what all home viewers will see between individual brands, for when thee incoming Open HDR signal is processed in those ‘Premium’ logoed TVs of differing brands as the consumer display mapping has not been standardized for every manufacturer is doing their own thing.

but alas, one has to start somewhere and to get agreement from so many differing business interests on just the basic parameters is an accomplishment in itself.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I have read that Dolby Vision can use an enhancement layer on top of HDR10.

For all forms of content delivery? See post above.

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Hopefully that will go well in the ITU and they will be able to select the HDR systems for broadcast as well.

I’m thinking/hoping, actually now expecting that there will be a consensus for that dual approach.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

4K

A big EARLY believer and proponent of the 4K DI, was Vilmos Z., one of the true greats, and it’s recently come to my attention that this fine man passed last Fri. in Big Sur. A short tip of the hat...

Vilmos Zsigmond Dead -- Close Encounters Cinematographer Vilmos Zsigmond dies at 85 -- RIP - YouTube

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

oh disregard my nonsensical ramblings ... must be another movie rattling around in my brain.

That's why I questioned it mate. Seemed extremely odd that Sony would lowball the DI seeing as they're so crazy about 4K and the movie was shot on 35mm anamorphic, Alexa 65, 8/35 etc, all formats which would lend themselves handsomely to a proper 4K finish. Which it got.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

....reproducible creative intent consistency...

So, why should discerning enthusiasts interested in best possible picture quality (like Kris Deering astutely was with the mastering gamma topic back in the day) care or concern themselves about such esoteric things like the various HDR solutions and implementations as such for home viewers?

Well because, as I mentioned last May in the ‘4K Blu-ray Confirmed’ sticky thread (of which I note is moving along at a lightning pace and I just don’t have time to keep up with right now, so apologies to anyone whose asked me questions in that thread, plus the reporters should be covering a lot of what's happening), anyway, as I said last May (long before it became in fashion to talk about) in response to jono3000

“Not all metadata is equal. There is static metadata and dynamic metadata“

So, to reiterate again for new readers….

For HDR10….think static metadata.

For Dolby Vision….think dynamic metadata….meaning every time the scene changes in a movie, there is a new set of metadata that informs the display management engine inside a Dolby Vision television on how best to map the color volume of the source content.....and remember....color volume is the combination of the dynamic range and the color gamut (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post11011071 )

So, for those who don’t catch the drift nor venture into a mastering suite, as far as ‘Premium’ HDR content for movies in terms of elegance…..
Dolby Vision > HDR10 > ST 2084 with no metadata > plain old SDR

Now, as a footnote, not to give Dolby all the HDR accolades because the PQ approach (Dolby) actually codes the picture on a reference display and needs metadata to do so…..with regards to broadcast of live content (sports and such) you don’t have reference displays nor the luxury of a lot of time; ergo, the hybrid log gamma approach in which coding what the camera sees in the signal is an appetizing solution for live material.

[XJF]

Based off specs alone, which one do you all think is better, the Sammy or the Panny?

[Adrian Wright]

Originally Posted by XJF

Based off specs alone, which one do you all think is better, the Sammy or the Panny?

Whichever releases first and cheapest would be my choice. This will only be a stopgap until Oppo dip their toe into UHD BD territory. Neither the Samsung or the Panasonic would approach their level of quality

[XJF]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

Whichever releases first and cheapest would be my choice. This will only be a stopgap until Oppo dip their toe into UHD BD territory. Neither the Samsung or the Panasonic would approach their level of quality

I just need something to hold me off until the SONY. [emoji12]

[bailey1987]

I need something to hold me off until Full Ultra HD 3D comes along.

[Opips3]

Originally Posted by XJF

I just need something to hold me off until the SONY. [emoji12]

Sony don't need THX certain logo

7.1 multichannels output and digital out and HDMI one jack.

[eriaur]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

Whichever releases first and cheapest would be my choice. This will only be a stopgap until Oppo dip their toe into UHD BD territory. Neither the Samsung or the Panasonic would approach their level of quality

Noel 2016 early 2017 for the Oppo.

edit: A Oppo rep. reconfirmed that at CES

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I need something to hold me off until

we can add another 'H' to the mix - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post11562405

^ At least that applies to me. Now how to modify the UHD Alliance Ultra HD Premium logo when that time comes?

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For all forms of content delivery? See post above.

It might depend on the video service and I have heard that Dolby Vision can use a base layer that is either SDR or HDR10.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’m thinking/hoping, actually now expecting that there will be a consensus for that dual approach.

Hopefully that will happen since the ITU process on HDR is delaying things and the HDR standard for broadcast might not even be in the HDR TVs next year if they don't start making progress soon.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

..
“Not all metadata is equal. There is static metadata and dynamic metadata“

So, to reiterate again for new readers….

For HDR10….think static metadata.

For Dolby Vision….think dynamic metadata….meaning every time the scene changes in a movie, there is a new set of metadata that informs the display management engine inside a Dolby Vision television on how best to map the color volume of the source content.....and remember....color volume is the combination of the dynamic range and the color gamut (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post11011071 )

So, for those who don’t catch the drift nor venture into a mastering suite, as far as ‘Premium’ HDR content for movies in terms of elegance…..
Dolby Vision > HDR10 > ST 2084 with no metadata > plain old SDR

For an HDR display I would agree with that but I think it will look like this for an SDR display:

Dolby Vision or SDR > HDR10 > ST 2084 with no metadata

Without dynamic metadata I think HDR10 is going to have a hard time looking good on a SDR display since the dynamic range has to be compressed by up to 20,000:1 in real time by a video processor.

[ray0414]

might as well pass along a rumor thats going around, I got this from a pretty good source on another forum.


But currently the VUDU 4k app is locked to only the VIZIO R series, and a couple other vizio models, and also the ROKU 4 (but the roku doesnt do HDR). so a birdie is saying that the new 4k blu ray players will have the vudu 4k app allowing access to the 25 HDR movies on there.

[ray0414]

Excellent interview here with the rep from DOLBY talking with avforums.

In this interview, the dolby rep says that when they are done grading the movie, the director himself or an appointed person from very high up from the film production must go and approve the dolby graded movie to ensure that it meets the directors intent. The also mention that someone who was involved in the movie helps out with the grading process too. they call it "artistic approval"

he also explains the procedure for how they go about getting the correct file to use.

he says they would go after the negative or the raw file. so in the case of pacific rim, even though the master format is 2k, the negative is redcode raw in 5k. so this would not be a 2k upscale correct?

"if you shoot raw, store the raw, and have access TO the raw, that is the perfect starting point for dolby vision"

https://www.avforums.com/video/video...ces-2016.12260