81:19 Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers

[tobes]

Geez, those BOGO offers are skewing the Amazon sales figures atm. When I last looked BD had 91 of the top 100 hidef titles.
Even "Final Fantasy" was outselling Transformers and Shrek 3 having no impact yet.
Of course Amazon is not a terribly reliable indicator, but often it tends to flatter HD. I suspect this week will be a bigger win for BD than "Rat" week.

Wonder if these sales have a double edged effect. BD owners buy up big, but a lot of HD-DVD supporters seem to own both formats and they may find it hard to resist the cheap BD prices and spend zero on HD for the week.

[pflieger]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

You mean, finally someone who posted something which doesn't flat out disagree with the lie I believe?

is completely priceless coming from someone who's posted what you have.

I'm not here to fight with anyone who is not open to debate or rational questions.

And I was happy that someone was not attacking me because they did not like the numbers that are obviously accurate or at least as accurate as humanly possible.

I'm here to learn not repeat fanboy FUD, I'm tired of every forum being overun with people that only come to post illogical biased rehashed facts that they gleamed from other biased postings and articles.

I prefer the truth and will accept anything that has a unbiased link provided, most of the examples I've been cited were just opinions given by other biased sources. Sort of like asking a Republican national board member if he thought the President was doing what is right for the country (of course he does) but that does not make it the truth.

So asking a Blu-Ray supporting site if they thought HD DVD actually sold 190,000 Transformers discs (of course they would say no way, it's a lie) because they don't want to have.

And all of your supposed proof are in the from of spins on what Paramount did or did not say.

I will say it once more I believe that both Transformers sold 190,000 and Spiderman 3 sold 135,000.

If preferring the true numbers makes me so sort of evil Troll, then those of you that think so are not open to explaining and providing unbiased links to support their opinions, I'm open to learning but no one has tried to help me learn all they do is attack and repeat the same unsubstantiated biased facts the float around everywhere. The few that don't are in someway lumped in with me as being wrong.

Enough of a rant, I hope to continue to read and post to advance my knowledge here on this forum.

[CptGreedle]

I'm sorry, but its not just us on this forum and BD supporters in general that don't believe the 190k number. Lots of people have questioned it and the fact is, if you include all the numbers that the other companies include, their number goes down to the 80k-130k range. If you include only the information the rest of the studios do, that would be the number, not 190k. If you were to do whatever Paramount did to get that number with all studios, I bet Spidey would have sold about 190k as well.

No, it is not just us. I do not think these numbers are comparable because while Sony is measuring it the same way they always do as well as all the other studios, Paramount decided to do something different this time and no one else can understand how they got that number. It is not the same measuring system at all.

[BluOgre]

Originally Posted by pflieger

I will say it once more I believe that both Transformers sold 190,000 and Spiderman 3 sold 135,000.

If preferring the true numbers makes me so sort of evil Troll, then those of you that think so are not open to explaining and providing unbiased links to support their opinions, I'm open to learning but no one has tried to help me learn all they do is attack and repeat the same unsubstantiated biased facts the float around everywhere. The few that don't are in someway lumped in with me as being wrong.

Enough of a rant, I hope to continue to read and post to advance my knowledge here on this forum.

I'm sorry but why do you describe those as the "true numbers". Haven't the "true" numbers been already explained and they are no where near 190k.

Are you trying to say you believe the stuidos over actual retail sales? Honestly you must not have a lot of experience with studios because they "spin" their numbers all the time. They claim 100k the first day.....and you don't think to question that at all? It's funny how Nielsen is unreliable because it's unfavorable to HD DVD. I don't see Paramount publicly stating Nielsen is wrong.....have you?

[MacDaddyOJack]

The recent firesale of A2's pushed the number of in-home HD players over 500k. So before that there were roughly 400k in home. So you mean to tell me that half of the population of HD-DVD owners went out and bought transformers in the first week it came out? Furthermore, a quarter of HD-DVD owners bought it on the first day?? It is possible, but I still doubt it....

[Rustmonsteru]

It would be kind of ironic and amusing if everyone went out and bought the remaining stock of a formerly blu paramount title like Trading Places and have it win the week against Shrek .

[WickyWoo]

I will say it once more I believe that both Transformers sold 190,000 and Spiderman 3 sold 135,000.

If preferring the true numbers makes me so sort of evil Troll, then those of you that think so are not open to explaining and providing unbiased links to support their opinions, I'm open to learning but no one has tried to help me learn all they do is attack and repeat the same unsubstantiated biased facts the float around everywhere. The few that don't are in someway lumped in with me as being wrong.

No, you are equating truth with advertising, oil and water

A press release is advertising. Neither Nielsen nor the press support the 190k figure.

However I have yet to see an official source challenge Sony's numbers on Spidey, nor do I expect there to be one since the HDers would be gunning for them they made sure they were accurate

[The Don]

Originally Posted by pflieger

I'm not here to fight with anyone who is not open to debate or rational questions.

And I was happy that someone was not attacking me because they did not like the numbers that are obviously accurate or at least as accurate as humanly possible.

I'm here to learn not repeat fanboy FUD, I'm tired of every forum being overun with people that only come to post illogical biased rehashed facts that they gleamed from other biased postings and articles.

I prefer the truth and will accept anything that has a unbiased link provided, most of the examples I've been cited were just opinions given by other biased sources. Sort of like asking a Republican national board member if he thought the President was doing what is right for the country (of course he does) but that does not make it the truth.

So asking a Blu-Ray supporting site if they thought HD DVD actually sold 190,000 Transformers discs (of course they would say no way, it's a lie) because they don't want to have.

And all of your supposed proof are in the from of spins on what Paramount did or did not say.

I will say it once more I believe that both Transformers sold 190,000 and Spiderman 3 sold 135,000.

If preferring the true numbers makes me so sort of evil Troll, then those of you that think so are not open to explaining and providing unbiased links to support their opinions, I'm open to learning but no one has tried to help me learn all they do is attack and repeat the same unsubstantiated biased facts the float around everywhere. The few that don't are in someway lumped in with me as being wrong.

Enough of a rant, I hope to continue to read and post to advance my knowledge here on this forum.

you are a complete troll....plain and simple..

I don't see how you are not...

one number has been disputed on two different occasions....the accurate number is 115k after Walmart sales are included....and previous to that it was over 90k....or somewhere around it...

190k is a number with no legs...

there are links all over these forums showing the truth all the while you are spouting off about a whole bunch of nonsense...

[Neo65]

Originally Posted by pflieger

It is the number the Studio gave as sold, not shipped.

I know I'm new here, but I don't care for made up numbers no matter how much better they would make me feel.

The facts are best and are always better then when strong wishes are posted as facts.

With knowledge we become better for it in the long run, inaccurate information is always found out and exposed and then it makes who produced it look stupid and no one will pay attention to them anymore.

I was willing to give Paramount the benefit of the doubt until I saw the leaked FirstAlert numbers for TF, 300.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...at-stupid-lie/

As you recall, Warner announced 250k combined for 300 with a 65:35 ratio for week1. I assume that's also 7 days of sales, which was different from the nielsen videoscan numbers, but the delta was small.

The Warner number of 250k was also 1.55X the number of First Alert (which was incomplete, including only the biggest retailers who could provide early results). The HMM numbers apparently includes the final numbers but they may or may not have scaled it appropriately.

The reason why the Paramount number is suspect is because if you divide 190k by the First Alert, it's 2.11X compared to the 1.55X we got for Warner.

Since the landscape of HDM retailiers did not undergo significant change (ie: no earthquake happened to drive the biggest retailers out of business), there is no statistically significant way the Paramount sales can achieve this 2.11X ratio if Warner's number is real.

So if Paramount's number is to be believed, then Warner and HMM must both be underreporting their number by a huge amount.

Another alternative scenario is that Paramount shipped a lot of disks, but they used sales instead of ship as a convenient spin. I tend to believe this scenario more as I see a lot of unsold TF in red cases compared to 300, which really appear to have been in tighter supply on both formats during release week.

But if the paramount statement really meant ship vs sold, then the person estimating that number must be mistaken.

[Imakida]

Originally Posted by pflieger

I'm not here to fight with anyone who is not open to debate or rational questions.

And I was happy that someone was not attacking me because they did not like the numbers that are obviously accurate or at least as accurate as humanly possible.

I'm here to learn not repeat fanboy FUD, I'm tired of every forum being overun with people that only come to post illogical biased rehashed facts that they gleamed from other biased postings and articles.

I prefer the truth and will accept anything that has a unbiased link provided, most of the examples I've been cited were just opinions given by other biased sources. Sort of like asking a Republican national board member if he thought the President was doing what is right for the country (of course he does) but that does not make it the truth.

So asking a Blu-Ray supporting site if they thought HD DVD actually sold 190,000 Transformers discs (of course they would say no way, it's a lie) because they don't want to have.

And all of your supposed proof are in the from of spins on what Paramount did or did not say.

I will say it once more I believe that both Transformers sold 190,000 and Spiderman 3 sold 135,000.

If preferring the true numbers makes me so sort of evil Troll, then those of you that think so are not open to explaining and providing unbiased links to support their opinions, I'm open to learning but no one has tried to help me learn all they do is attack and repeat the same unsubstantiated biased facts the float around everywhere. The few that don't are in someway lumped in with me as being wrong.

Enough of a rant, I hope to continue to read and post to advance my knowledge here on this forum.

HAHAHA! Your are very funny! You are joking, are you? Well you make my day, believing that transformer sold 190k. We have to show you "non-biased" link.. If you look at the stats, you'll see that only paramount think they sold 190k.. and well I'm not sure but is it probable that Paramount is Bias!

I have a link for you if you want, but I can't prove you they are right...
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...at-stupid-lie/
If transformer sold 190k, 300 sold at least ... humm 250K I'm good at guessing numbers!!

[ikbradley]

Originally Posted by pflieger

And all of your supposed proof are in the from of spins on what Paramount did or did not say.

I will say it once more I believe that both Transformers sold 190,000 and Spiderman 3 sold 135,000.

One thing I can agree on is the fact that all these numbers seem to be pulled out of a hat. The only way to tell is to see is to take the units put on the shelves, take a cross-section of retailers, and then see on average how many units were sold (accounting for price variation, etc.). I never get to find out the methodology so I am always sceptical of the numbers.

I don't know if Transformers sold more than Spiderman 3. One thing I can say is that Spiderman 3 is a teen demographic, so while not every PS3 user purchases blu-ray movies, if one movie was to be purchased by the teen gamer, this is the movie (or Superbad). There are a couple of million PS3s in North America, so the numbers should be pretty high. 135,000 is not unreasonable considering the numbers put out for 300 and Casino Royal.

Transformers was THE HD DVD MOVIE. No question. What I don't trust is notion that over half the people who purchased a HD DVD player got the movie in the first week. I am basing this on the numbers that there are approximately 350k HD DVD players, at a maximum, have been sold in North America, and that you are stating that 190k Transformer units were pushed. That number is insanely high. If it happened, great for HD DVD. That number is stupendous. However, this so eclipses any previous HD DVD movie in its first week that it seems reasonable to question. Plus, Paramount has an inherent interest in fudging the numbers. They need HD DVD to win, because if they lose, Sony is going to hold their foot to the flame if they come crawling back and are forced to pay a penalized licensing fee. If I was Sony, I would put a felatio clause in the contract.

[msallaq]

Originally Posted by pflieger

I'm not here to fight with anyone who is not open to debate or rational questions.

And I was happy that someone was not attacking me because they did not like the numbers that are obviously accurate or at least as accurate as humanly possible.

I'm here to learn not repeat fanboy FUD, I'm tired of every forum being overun with people that only come to post illogical biased rehashed facts that they gleamed from other biased postings and articles.

I prefer the truth and will accept anything that has a unbiased link provided, most of the examples I've been cited were just opinions given by other biased sources. Sort of like asking a Republican national board member if he thought the President was doing what is right for the country (of course he does) but that does not make it the truth.

So asking a Blu-Ray supporting site if they thought HD DVD actually sold 190,000 Transformers discs (of course they would say no way, it's a lie) because they don't want to have.

And all of your supposed proof are in the from of spins on what Paramount did or did not say.

I will say it once more I believe that both Transformers sold 190,000 and Spiderman 3 sold 135,000.

If preferring the true numbers makes me so sort of evil Troll, then those of you that think so are not open to explaining and providing unbiased links to support their opinions, I'm open to learning but no one has tried to help me learn all they do is attack and repeat the same unsubstantiated biased facts the float around everywhere. The few that don't are in someway lumped in with me as being wrong.

Enough of a rant, I hope to continue to read and post to advance my knowledge here on this forum.

omg im tired of troll coming in here and starting bs. WickyWoo please banned him before i get a heart atack.

[GregBlu5]

Originally Posted by tobes

Geez, those BOGO offers are skewing the Amazon sales figures atm. When I last looked BD had 91 of the top 100 hidef titles.
Even "Final Fantasy" was outselling Transformers and Shrek 3 having no impact yet.
Of course Amazon is not a terribly reliable indicator, but often it tends to flatter HD. I suspect this week will be a bigger win for BD than "Rat" week.

Wonder if these sales have a double edged effect. BD owners buy up big, but a lot of HD-DVD supporters seem to own both formats and they may find it hard to resist the cheap BD prices and spend zero on HD for the week.

Yeah. Well, it's been clear to just about everyone that this war has gotten down and dirty in recent weeks. You've got Tosh giving away, what?, 10 free disks, some of which count toward "sales". Of course, as with any other kind of product wars, such as, in the past, when airlines had fare wars or (god, how long ago was this?) gasoline stations had gas wars, they do tend to help the consumer for the time being.

Hi Def disks have been more expensive than they ought to be, to gain more widespread acceptance of the format. Same with players. Now that both titles and players are coming down across the board, to varying degrees, I'm happy. I am buying titles that I certainly would not buy otherwise.

I do wish that a few of the remaining $27.95 Blu-ray titles would drop in price 'cause then I would buy them, and there aren't as many at that price any more; and that's to be applauded.

-Greg

[Slapper]

Originally Posted by ikbradley

One thing I can agree on is the fact that all these numbers seem to be pulled out of a hat. The only way to tell is to see is to take the units put on the shelves, take a cross-section of retailers, and then see on average how many units were sold (accounting for price variation, etc.). I never get to find out the methodology so I am always sceptical of the numbers.

I don't know if Transformers sold more than Spiderman 3. One thing I can say is that Spiderman 3 is a teen demographic, so while not every PS3 user purchases blu-ray movies, if one movie was to be purchased by the teen gamer, this is the movie (or Superbad). There are a couple of million PS3s in North America, so the numbers should be pretty high. 135,000 is not unreasonable considering the numbers put out for 300 and Casino Royal.

Transformers was THE HD DVD MOVIE. No question. What I don't trust is notion that over half the people who purchased a HD DVD player got the movie in the first week. I am basing this on the numbers that there are approximately 350k HD DVD players, at a maximum, have been sold in North America, and that you are stating that 190k Transformer units were pushed. That number is insanely high. If it happened, great for HD DVD. That number is stupendous. However, this so eclipses any previous HD DVD movie in its first week that it seems reasonable to question. Plus, Paramount has an inherent interest in fudging the numbers. They need HD DVD to win, because if they lose, Sony is going to hold their foot to the flame if they come crawling back and are forced to pay a penalized licensing fee. If I was Sony, I would put a felatio clause in the contract.

LMAO

[JAGUAR1977]

Originally Posted by tobes

Geez, those BOGO offers are skewing the Amazon sales figures atm. When I last looked BD had 91 of the top 100 hidef titles.
Even "Final Fantasy" was outselling Transformers and Shrek 3 having no impact yet.
Of course Amazon is not a terribly reliable indicator, but often it tends to flatter HD. I suspect this week will be a bigger win for BD than "Rat" week.

Wonder if these sales have a double edged effect. BD owners buy up big, but a lot of HD-DVD supporters seem to own both formats and they may find it hard to resist the cheap BD prices and spend zero on HD for the week.

Depends what you mean by skewing, a sales a sale, and is no doubt costing Sony/Disney pennies compared to HD-DVD's Paramount deal and Toshibas firesale.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by MacDaddyOJack

The recent firesale of A2's pushed the number of in-home HD players over 500k. So before that there were roughly 400k in home. So you mean to tell me that half of the population of HD-DVD owners went out and bought transformers in the first week it came out? Furthermore, a quarter of HD-DVD owners bought it on the first day?? It is possible, but I still doubt it....

Per Toshiba's own numbers, the firesale pushed the total number of HD-DVD players to 420,000.

[Blu-Light]

Originally Posted by pflieger

I'm not here to fight with anyone who is not open to debate or rational questions.

And I was happy that someone was not attacking me because they did not like the numbers that are obviously accurate or at least as accurate as humanly possible.

I'm here to learn not repeat fanboy FUD, I'm tired of every forum being overun with people that only come to post illogical biased rehashed facts that they gleamed from other biased postings and articles.

I prefer the truth and will accept anything that has a unbiased link provided, most of the examples I've been cited were just opinions given by other biased sources. Sort of like asking a Republican national board member if he thought the President was doing what is right for the country (of course he does) but that does not make it the truth.

So asking a Blu-Ray supporting site if they thought HD DVD actually sold 190,000 Transformers discs (of course they would say no way, it's a lie) because they don't want to have.

And all of your supposed proof are in the from of spins on what Paramount did or did not say.

I will say it once more I believe that both Transformers sold 190,000 and Spiderman 3 sold 135,000.

If preferring the true numbers makes me so sort of evil Troll, then those of you that think so are not open to explaining and providing unbiased links to support their opinions, I'm open to learning but no one has tried to help me learn all they do is attack and repeat the same unsubstantiated biased facts the float around everywhere. The few that don't are in someway lumped in with me as being wrong.

Enough of a rant, I hope to continue to read and post to advance my knowledge here on this forum.

Well you can believe what you like but I strongly believe that you are wrong on this. Based on what I have heard through the retail channel this movie did NOT do well at all on HD-DVD. 190K shipped is closer to reality.

[Blu-Light]

The next two weeks of numbers are going to be DUD slaughters. SO they think they caught up to BD eh? Wait til this friday.

[pflieger]

Originally Posted by The Don

you are a complete troll....plain and simple..

I don't see how you are not...

I'm certain you can't, someone new with an open mind comes onto the forum and doesn't just swallow any old number that is posted as fact (when it is open to discussion) must be Troll.

I don't believe everything HD DVD supporters state as so called facts so I should just flip over and take any kind of statements Blu-Ray supporters state are set in stone honest to god facts.

The numbers on Spiderman 3 were posted by PaidGeek (I think on this forum) so is he also a Troll?

And the numbers on Transformers although released by Paramount have been only disputed by undisclosed Blu-Ray studios in the previous links.

So I will stay with my original numbers, I'm not a Troll but if believing what appears to be true numbers makes you so then just about everyone is a Troll.

If you don't agree with everything I say without reservation then 'YOU ARE A TROLL"!

Brilliant way to influence people to adopt the Blu-Ray format, NOT!

[BluOgre]

Originally Posted by JAGUAR1977

Depends what you mean by skewing, a sales a sale, and is no doubt costing Sony/Disney pennies compared to HD-DVD's Paramount deal and Toshibas firesale.

I have a problem with saying it's costing Sony/Disney pennies. The way I look at it a Buy One Get One Free DOES NOT lose them money. They still get money. My guess is they are making money off this buy one get one deals because it increases sales by a LARGE margin.

On the other hand Toshiba is GIVING away software completely free with hardware at the point of sale, there is NO money being made from these titles. Stuidos get paid because the product is NOT returned from retailers but Toshiba is basically eatting all the costs. They are not getting any money and basically paying full retail price to give them away for free.