Official Film Noir on Blu-ray Thread

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

I've been meaning to get this myself. A hefty 648 pages. Taschen puts out elaborate pictorial coffee-table books. Not too many words, usually. It's really cheap right now:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/3836561697...8035347&sr=1-1

I've got it and the pictures are beautiful but the last 200 or so pages are Neo-Noir titles and there are quite a few classic titles not included.

Oops! My error, the Taschen book I have is Film Noir 100 All-Time Favorites.

[tallguy58]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

I've got it and the pictures are beautiful but the last 200 or so pages are Neo-Noir titles and there are quite a few classic titles not included.

Can someone confirm that the articles in there are reprints from the Film Noir Readers?

[Craig Beam]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

I've been meaning to get this myself. A hefty 648 pages. Taschen puts out elaborate pictorial coffee-table books. Not too many words, usually. It's really cheap right now:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/3836561697...8035347&sr=1-1

Ordered! Can't say no to $20.00.

[silverlakephil]

There's another Taschen book called Dark City:The Real Los Angeles Noir. I believe they're pictures from real crime scenes in L.A. from the 1920s through the 1950s including the notorious Black Dahlia murder from 1947.

https://www.taschen.com/pages/en/cat...saAsdvEALw_wcB

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Craig Beam

Ordered! Can't say no to $20.00.

For any international buyers, bookdepository.com has it for around US$21-22 shipped free worldwide. I was about to jump on the Amazon deal, but Book Depository saves me $10 in shipping

[Richard--W]

Mifune Man:

May I suggest
ACROSS 110TH STREET (1972)
THE FRIENDS OF EDDIE COYLE (1973) Criterion,
THE POLICE CONNECTION (1973)
BRING ME THE HEAD OF ALFREDO GARCIA (1974)
REPORT TO THE COMMISSIONER (1975)
INTERNAL AFFAIRS (1990)
CHINA MOON (1994)
CROUPIER (1998)

be added to the originating neo-noir post?

[chas speed]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

Forgive me for sounding argumentative, I don't mean to be. Odds Against Tomorrow was not made in the 1940s nor was it intended to look as if it were made in the forties. It was made in 1958 for release in 1959 when movies were composed in widescreen ratios for cinemas equipped with widescreens. The extraneous information at the top and bottom was intended to be masked off by a plate inserted into the projector. Classic movies of the late 1950s were not in the Academy ratio, they were in the widescreen ratios.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but most classic film noir movies of the 50's were shot in a 1:33.1 ratio. The genre had pretty much died off before Cinemascope showed up. That's why many people consider "Odds Against Tomorrow" to be the last of the classic noir films coming very late in the genre. I have often found that the people who made the movies often know and remember very little about them and are not the final word on the subject. I prefer to watch the film as IMDB said it was intended to be seen. They are right about 99% of the time on aspect ratios.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by chas speed

I'm not sure if you are aware, but most classic film noir movies of the 50's were shot in a 1:33.1 ratio.

Unless you're referring exclusively to pre-1953 films, this is not true. No genre was exempt from the shift to widescreen in 1953-54, including noir. A cursory glance through the noirs of this era, including those in the OP, provides ample evidence of this.

Originally Posted by chas speed

The genre had pretty much died off before Cinemascope showed up.

Also not true. The genre was alive and well into the late 50s. Touch of Evil, the last noir masterpiece of the classic cycle, was released in 1958.

Also, CinemaScope wasn't the only widescreen format -- it was just the widest. Many noirs were shot in the 1.66, 1.75, and 1.85 ARs.

Originally Posted by chas speed

I have often found that the people who made the movies often know and remember very little about them and are not the final word on the subject. I prefer to watch the film as IMDB said it was intended to be seen. They are right about 99% of the time on aspect ratios.

This statement makes no sense. You're basically saying the actual filmmakers shouldn't be trusted about their own works, and you should instead trust an internet database that often includes inaccurate, user-generated information instead.

[Richard--W]

Literally thousands of feature films were shot in 4-perf full frame, exposing the entire negative in the frame. When the shift to widescreen happened in mid-1953 studios, directors and cameramen wanted to take advantage of the new widescreen without sacrificing the sharpness and depth of primary, spherical lenses. So they continued in the full-frame process but composed for widescreen. They intended the extraneous top and bottom information to be masked off by the projection plate. The aspect ratio was often written on the leader of the first reel and always in the film's I.D. card inserted into the reel cans delivered to the theater. This is how the Projectionist's Guild worked in tandem with the Director's Guild and Cameraman's Guild. They communicated. They observed the industry practices.

Studios also published the intended aspect ratio as part of the announcement in the industry's trade journals, such as Hollywood Reporter.

And then there were anamorphic widescreen processes, but that's another story.

Now every film buff who finds out that the entire negative frame was exposed assumes it's the intended aspect ratio and fights for it relentlessly regardless of the director's intentions and the technical evidence, because he doesn't understand the capture processes or the exhibition procedures.

[Richard--W]

Mifune Fan:

A couple more thoughts for the Neo-Noir post:

The Gambler (1974)
The Nickel Ride (1974)
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976) -- Criterion, the short theatrical version.
Atlantic City (1980) -- on a French Gaumont region-free bluray in native English.

[Richard--W]

Late 1960s film noir period:

The Chase (1966) a Twilight Time bluray.
The Detective (1968) a Twilight Time bluray.
Madigan (1968) Universal needs to put Don Siegel's noir on bluray.

Two British neo-noir on blurays:

The Long Good Friday (1980)
Mona Lisa (1986)

[John_Drake]

The Japanese BD of Madigan looks just fine and is Region A.

[Richard--W]

Thanks for the alert on Madigan. I've never understand why this police noir is overlooked; it's been very influential on other directors including Michael Mann.

I'll probably get the Japanese bluray. No doubt the transfer is new? One can never be sure what one's getting when buying from Asia until it arrives. The DVD was okay in its time but the transfer is outdated now.

[chas speed]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

Unless you're referring exclusively to pre-1953 films, this is not true. No genre was exempt from the shift to widescreen in 1953-54, including noir. A cursory glance through the noirs of this era, including those in the OP, provides ample evidence of this.



Also not true. The genre was alive and well into the late 50s. Touch of Evil, the last noir masterpiece of the classic cycle, was released in 1958.

Also, CinemaScope wasn't the only widescreen format -- it was just the widest. Many noirs were shot in the 1.66, 1.75, and 1.85 ARs.



This statement makes no sense. You're basically saying the actual filmmakers shouldn't be trusted about their own works, and you should instead trust an internet database that often includes inaccurate, user-generated information instead.

Why are part of the opening credits of "Odds Against Tomorrow" matted off if it was intended to be shown at a 1:85.1 ratio? I said for the most part the film noir era was dead around the time Cinemascope came out. After Cinemascope came out there were many aspect ratios and I didn't say their weren't. I would think most people would admit that most classic film noirs came out before the mid 50's and I think you know what I meant. I didn't say there were absolutely no film noir movies past that point. It seems like you lost the debate and are grasping at straws. Get over it.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by chas speed

Why are part of the opening credits of "Odds Against Tomorrow" matted off if it was intended to be shown at a 1:85.1 ratio? ...

Because a change was made shortly after the film was completed but before it was released. I've addressed your question in the ODDS AGAINST TOMORROW thread here

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=304705

and will have more to say about it later.

Originally Posted by chas speed

... I said for the most part the film noir era was dead around the time Cinemascope came out. After Cinemascope came out there were many aspect ratios and I didn't say their weren't. I would think most people would admit that most classic film noirs came out before the mid 50's and I think you know what I meant. I didn't say there were absolutely no film noir movies past that point. It seems like you lost the debate and are grasping at straws. Get over it.

Your premise -- that film noir was dead around the time Cinemascope started -- is demonstratively incorrect. Like all generes, film noir continued to evolve. It evolved in the forties and it evolved in the fifties. Of course film noirs were being made throughout the decade and beyond. Your wording compounds double-negatives in the past tense and the present tense so that I don't understand which position you're not committing yourself to.

[Craig Beam]

My copy of the Taschen book arrived today---- wow, what a gorgeous tome. So many full-page theatrical posters on display... and they're almost the perfect size for custom DVD/Blu-ray covers....!

[benedictopacifico]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

Mifune Man:

May I suggest
ACROSS 110TH STREET (1972)
THE FRIENDS OF EDDIE COYLE (1973) Criterion,
THE POLICE CONNECTION (1973)
BRING ME THE HEAD OF ALFREDO GARCIA (1974)
REPORT TO THE COMMISSIONER (1975)
INTERNAL AFFAIRS (1990)
CHINA MOON (1994)
CROUPIER (1998)

be added to the originating neo-noir post?

Bring me the Head of Alfredo García is not a neo-noir.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by benedictopacifico

Bring me the Head of Alfredo García is not a neo-noir.

Thanks for the feedback.

How isn't it a noir?

It's as much a noir as They Drive By Night (1948) and Gun Crazy (1950) which it resembles.
I'd say it's 100% pure noir and 100% aged-in-the-keg proof noir.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by Craig Beam

My copy of the Taschen book arrived today---- wow, what a gorgeous tome. So many full-page theatrical posters on display... and they're almost the perfect size for custom DVD/Blu-ray covers....!

Sounds good.
Lotsa big black & white photos?

[benedictopacifico]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

Thanks for the feedback.

How isn't it a noir?

It's as much a noir as They Drive By Night (1948) and Gun Crazy (1950) which it resembles.
I'd say it's 100% pure noir and 100% aged-in-the-keg proof noir.

One of the main features in film-noir and neo-noir, is that the main character (sometimes this is transferred to a secondary character) knowingly has to do something, whether in the movie or in the past, that will eventually led to a irremediable downfall.

In Bring me the Head of Alfredo García,

[Show spoiler]when Bennie takes the decision of going on a road trip for an easy job, there is nothing at stake, as far as he knows, so Elita getting killed was his fault? Partly, but it will not condemn him, as it would happen in a noir, instead of that, it places him on a path of revenge/redemption in memory of the woman he loved.

If anything it could be placed in the western genre, it has parallels with The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Peckinpah even makes one of the bad guys say that his name is "Fred C. Dobbs" after the character played by Humphrey Bogart.


And I do not understand nor could find out what "aged-in-the-keg proof" means.