Official Film Noir on Blu-ray Thread

[Le Samourai]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

It's always sad to lose another star from Hollywood's golden age, especially since there are so few left. She was a true noir icon.

Indeed, RIP.

[lordmorpheus72]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Sad news for all of us film noir fans. Lizabeth Scott passed away on January 31.

[Show spoiler]Film Noir Actress Lizabeth Scott Dies At 92

Lizabeth Scott was one of my personal favorite actresses of the classic film noir era, because of her roles in films like The Strange Love of Martha Ivers, Pitfall, Dark City, The Racket, The Weapon, Two of a Kind, and Dead Reckoning. She had perhaps the sexiest voice in cinema history.

Sad news. We're getting to a time where it seems we are losing many of the greats. R.I.P.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by lordmorpheus72

Sad news. We're getting to a time where it seems we are losing many of the greats. R.I.P.

Oh, we've gotten there already. There aren't many left from the Golden Age of Hollywood.

[Leonidas King]

These are good additions to the Modern/Neo-Noir list:


-Gone Girl


-Shutter Island


-A Prophet

[noirjunkie]

I haven't seen A Prophet, but Shutter Island doesn't really have any noir characteristics. It's a psychological thriller. Gone Girl, on the other hand, is probably a borderline case. I can see valid arguments being made either way regarding its inclusion.

[PLG1962]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

Gone Girl, on the other hand, is probably a borderline case. I can see valid arguments being made either way regarding its inclusion.

I'm in the negative camp with this one

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

I haven't seen A Prophet, but Shutter Island doesn't really have any noir characteristics. It's a psychological thriller. Gone Girl, on the other hand, is probably a borderline case. I can see valid arguments being made either way regarding its inclusion.

I haven't seen Shutter Island, but I've read the novel. If the film is like the novel, then I'd agree with you that it's not noir.

I would also agree that Gone Girl has some noir-ish elements, but ultimately, I don't think it fits.

[Feiereisel]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

I haven't seen A Prophet, but Shutter Island doesn't really have any noir characteristics. It's a psychological thriller. Gone Girl, on the other hand, is probably a borderline case. I can see valid arguments being made either way regarding its inclusion.

Shutter Island has war trauma, expressive lighting, a detective conceit, a '50s period setting, and a raft of characters of questionable morality--

[Show spoiler]though some of those things are revealed to be parts of the elaborate ruse the film is built around...which renders the "narrator" (DiCaprio) unreliable and twists the already convoluted plot, two more noir tropes.

It's not a film noir, but it's absolutely a neo-noir in the vein of films like L.A. Confidential and Chinatown.

[LegacyCosts]

Originally Posted by Leonidas_King

These are good additions to the Modern/Neo-Noir list:


-Gone Girl


-Shutter Island


-A Prophet

I personally wouldn't include any of the three but A Prophet is a wonderful movie.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by Feiereisel

Shutter Island has war trauma, expressive lighting, a detective conceit, a '50s period setting, and a raft of characters of questionable morality--

[Show spoiler]though some of those things are revealed to be parts of the elaborate ruse the film is built around...which renders the "narrator" (DiCaprio) unreliable and twists the already convoluted plot, two more noir tropes.

It's not a film noir, but it's absolutely a neo-noir in the vein of films like L.A. Confidential and Chinatown.

It does have the elements you listed, but they don't cohere into a story that fits into anything resembling noir or neo-noir, especially considering the way it ends. The plot is essential to defining whether or not a film fits into noir, and I just don't think the story fits the noir/neo-noir mold.

[Feiereisel]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

It does have the elements you listed, but they don't cohere into a story that fits into anything resembling noir or neo-noir, especially considering the way it ends. The plot is essential to defining whether or not a film fits into noir, and I just don't think the story fits the noir/neo-noir mold.

I'd argue that story is almost irrelevant in determining what is and is not noir--especially given that the term was established in retrospect--many classic noir films can and were classified as other genres. The stylisic elements of a film are far better indicators.

Shutter Island is not a pure noir; I won't even attempt to claim that. But neo-noir is nebulous enough to accommodate it. Again, I cite Chinatown and LA Confidential, among others, as similarly neo-noir films.

[Mansinthe]

Originally Posted by murphywmm

I finally got to watch "Out of the Past" - now I understand why it's so revered among noir fans. Jane Greer must be one of the most evil and best femme fatales ever.

I liked Double indemnity and Night of the Hunter more , BUT out of the past is really a good movie.

[Movie Nut]

Originally Posted by murphywmm

I finally got to watch "Out of the Past" - now I understand why it's so revered among noir fans. Jane Greer must be one of the most evil and best femme fatales ever.

You forgot to add stone cold, drop dead gorgeous. Which just seals poor Jeff's fate even further. She knows he's doomed, you know he's doomed, everyone else in the theater knows he's doomed. Hell the only one that doesn't know it is Jeff...until it's too late.

Ah yes...death by lipstick. He's a goner...but what a way to go.

Gotta love noir.

:

[Leonidas King]

Gone Girl, Shutter Island, A Prophet are not considered Neo-Noir but John Wick totally is, mmm okay.

[Leonidas King]

Originally Posted by Feiereisel

Shutter Island has war trauma, expressive lighting, a detective conceit, a '50s period setting, and a raft of characters of questionable morality--

[Show spoiler]though some of those things are revealed to be parts of the elaborate ruse the film is built around...which renders the "narrator" (DiCaprio) unreliable and twists the already convoluted plot, two more noir tropes.

It's not a film noir, but it's absolutely a neo-noir in the vein of films like L.A. Confidential and Chinatown.

Thank you! Of course it is. These people unfortunately don't know Neo-Noir when its right in front of them.

[kuro_sawa]

Originally Posted by Leonidas_King

Gone Girl, Shutter Island, A Prophet are not considered Neo-Noir but John Wick totally is, mmm okay.

I haven't seen A Prophet (thanks for the heads up!), but I would actually argue John Wick fits much more snug in this category over the other two. It has a lot more to compare to classic noir. While Shutter Island is essentially a mystery we are solving along the way, I feel that it is ultimately more of a horror film with nods to classic thrillers ala Hitchcock.

[lordmorpheus72]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I haven't seen Shutter Island, but I've read the novel. If the film is like the novel, then I'd agree with you that it's not noir.

I would also agree that Gone Girl has some noir-ish elements, but ultimately, I don't think it fits.

I've seen both and am in the not "neo-noir" camp as well.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Movie Nut

You forgot to add stone cold, drop dead gorgeous. Which just seals poor Jeff's fate even further. She knows he's doomed, you know he's doomed, everyone else in the theater knows he's doomed. Hell the only one that doesn't know it is Jeff...until it's too late.

Ah yes...death by lipstick. He's a goner...but what a way to go.

The more that I watch Out of the Past, the more I'm convinced that

[Show spoiler]Jeff himself actually knows that he's doomed the split second that he sees Joe Stefanos at the service station at the beginning of the movie and realizes that Whit Sterling has found him. That's one of the things that I love about this film. Jeff is trying his best, but all of his mannerisms and moves have an air of resignation about them.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by Feiereisel

I'd argue that story is almost irrelevant in determining what is and is not noir--especially given that the term was established in retrospect--many classic noir films can and were classified as other genres. The stylisic elements of a film are far better indicators.

Almost all criticism written on the topic disagrees with your central premise. The term "noir" was applied after the fact because critics looked back at the films of the 40s and 50s and saw similar thematic (i.e., story) elements that tied together the films we now call noir. The style was not enough to determine genre, especially given that that same filmmaking style (chiaroscuro lighting, dutch angles, etc.) is present in other genres; it originated in classic horror films, none of which are labeled noir.

That's also why I would argue that Shutter Island is not a neo-noir, because while some of the style markers are present, neo-noir updates the story elements of classic noir and places them into contemporary (or even futuristic) settings.

I understand your argument and I can see where you're coming from; you just happen to fall into the minority in terms of how you define both noir and neo-noir.

Originally Posted by Leonidas_King

Thank you! Of course it is. These people unfortunately don't know Neo-Noir when its right in front of them.

Speaking as one of "these people" you so cavalierly discard, unless you've studied this topic at the graduate school level, teach it professionally, and have published several essays on it in both magazines and books, I'd say I have more experience understanding what does and does not constitute noir and neo-noir than you do.

[Feiereisel]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

That's also why I would argue that Shutter Island is not a neo-noir, because while some of the style markers are present, neo-noir updates the story elements of classic noir and places them into contemporary (or even futuristic) settings."

What of LA Confidential and Chinatown, then? Those don't track as neo-noirs based on that definition.

No indignance intended--I'm just curious.

And also, due respect to your cred, we know the noir--and neo-noir, especially--goal posts aren't fixed, right? Canon is negotiable.