INCEPTION Review Thread (SPOILERS!!)

[csdot]

Originally Posted by silversnake

You guys think November / December blu-ray release is too much to ask ?

I hope there is a great making of and maybe even some behind the scenes with Hans Zimmer / cast.

I usually do not care for extras but this is one movie I really want to see as much as possible.

theres no way it WONT be out by christmas. they would be stupid not to have it available for the holidays and it came out the same day as TDK (which came out on blu-ray the first week of December).

[Hep]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

We will have to agree to disagree then. Because, to me,

[Show spoiler]the reason he is able to see his children's faces without looking at the conclusion of the tops spin is because it doesn't matter to him where he is. Therefore, making it obvious to me that the real journey for him was the psychological resolution of his guilt. It's almost as if Nolan created a film within the denouement of a story! WOAH! That just blew my mind as I wrote it!!! The real story of this film starts way before Cobb's extraction attempt on Saito. It starts with the moment he decides to incept his wife in limbo. However, we do not see that part of the story except in quick expositional memories. Therefore, Cobb's journey is to resolve his guilt about that one action. But, like I said before, being human, he is ignoring the pain of dealing with that... as most people would do. And, doing all of these extraction jobs is Cobb "trying to buy his way back." -> A DIRECT QUOTE FROM COBB HIMSELF. But, that hasn't worked for however many years it has been (speculated at about 2 years). And, as time passes, that guilt he feels keeps getting more potent and more integrated into the work he does. THAT is his REAL journey in the film. The "need to get back to my kids" motivation is a distraction from needing to come to terms with himself. Also, as I mentioned previously, subconsciously he knows that getting to his children without dealing with his guilt first won't be what he needs. Which, in turn, explains why his guilt keeps surfacing more and more. And, that explains even more why this job in particular is so susceptible to his guilt (Mal) interfering. He knows consciously that this job could get him home to his children. Therefore, he knows subconsciously that he absolutely NEEDS to deal with the guilt prior to going home. THEREFORE, Mal (his guilt) is able to directly affect the outcome of the job. This also explains why Cobb doesn't want to know the details of the "maze." Subconsciously he knows that his own guilt could ruin the job.

I can't get over how much this film has me fixated! The more I think about it, I'm certain think that Nolan has incepted me.

That is exactly what I thought while I was typing my last post. The thing is that I agree with everything you are saying, and it fits with both of our interpretations of the ending.

[Show spoiler]The only difference is that I see the dénouement as an important aspect after the conflict (guilt) is resolved; you don't.

That is a perfectly fair assessment, and you have made your arguments well, but it just doesn't add up to my perception of the details that played out in the final scenes. I am certainly happy live with the fact that there is more than one valid interpretation.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Belloche

I don't know what kind of curve you're grading on but if you line this movie up against recent big budget action movies I don't know how it comes off as boring and unimaginative. The type of movie the studio is going to let you make with 200 million dollars of their money isn't endless. In a Hollywood where every second movie these days seem to be a sequel or a remake Inception feels like a breath of fresh air to me.

ps - I do agree that there was too much dialogue exposition.

I don't grade on a curve... I mean, you can't compare apples to oranges. I just wasn't impressed at all. I wanted to love it, thought it looked cool.. but I haven't loved any of Nolan's films yet and think none of them really have any gravatas when it comes to human emotion. And Inception to me felt cold and calculating - I never felt any empathy during

[Show spoiler]the storyline with the wife, which was a huge (the only) part of Leo's characterization that was given any screen time. I didn't care for any of the characters, probably because no one was giving any characterization... which opens up the possibility that everyone except Leo was a projection and it was all in his mind... but since Nolan cops out on the end and doesn't know what he wants to say, I guess I'm left with thinking it was just vastly underwritten.

I guess the problem with a breath of fresh air, to me, is that it tries so hard to be fresh, that it can fall even harder. i know some people are loving it, but several of my friends also didn't like it, although they liked it more than I did.

I just wish when filmmakers set up a world or big ideas that they would actually follow through with exploring them, instead of making every single scene a chase, or another boring shootout... it didn't need to be as loud and boisterous to explore dream logic, but somehow, that's how it ended up.

Oh well. I'm happy everyone else likes it, I'm a huge fan of Leo, not so much of Nolan though.

[silversnake]

Originally Posted by csdot

theres no way it WONT be out by christmas. they would be stupid not to have it available for the holidays and it came out the same day as TDK (which came out on blu-ray the first week of December).

by your logic, I guess it's not a stretch to hope for a steelbook as well

[vegeta88]

Originally Posted by csdot

theres no way it WONT be out by christmas. they would be stupid not to have it available for the holidays and it came out the same day as TDK (which came out on blu-ray the first week of December).

February is Award season. Believe me, December sounds much better. I might have dreamed it up, but I thought I read something about February.

[csdot]

Originally Posted by vegeta88

February is Award season. Believe me, December sounds much better. I might have dreamed it up, but I thought I read something about February.

6-7 months is way too long for a movie like this, especially nowadays

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by retablo

I don't grade on a curve... I mean, you can't compare apples to oranges. I just wasn't impressed at all. I wanted to love it, thought it looked cool.. but I haven't loved any of Nolan's films yet and think none of them really have any gravatas when it comes to human emotion. And Inception to me felt cold and calculating -

[Show spoiler]I never felt any empathy during the storyline with the wife, which was a huge (the only) part of Leo's characterization that was given any screen time. I didn' care for any of the characters, probably because no one was giving any characterization... which opens up the possibility that everyone except Leo was a projection and it was all in his mind... but since Nolan cops out on the end and doesn't know what he wants to say, I guess I'm left with thinking it was just vastly underwritten.

I guess the problem with a breath of fresh air, to me, is that it tries so hard to be fresh, that it can fall even harder. i know some people are loving it, but several of my friends also didn't like it, although they liked it more than I did.

I just wish when filmmakers set up a world or big ideas that they would actually follow through with exploring them, instead of making every single scene a chase, or another boring shootout... it didn't need to be as loud and boisterous to explore dream logic, but somehow, that's how it ended up.

Oh well. I'm happy everyone else likes it, I'm a huge fan of Leo, not so much of Nolan though.

First... please go back and add the SPOILER tag where I did in my quoting of your post.

Second... you obviously misinterpreted it. You aren't suppose to feel ANY empathy towards his wife Mal because

[Show spoiler]the only version of Mal we ever really see in the film is not his wife. It's a physical representation of his own guilt that takes the shape of the person towards whom he feels the guilt for having planted the idea that led to her suicide in the real world. The only time we see his real wife is when she commits suicide. It's the only time we get a sense of who she is and what her desires are. And, even then, they aren't her own desires. She has been long been destroyed by Cobbs inception of her. You can't possibly feel sympathy or empathize with a character who only really appears for maybe 1 minute and 30 seconds in the film!!!

And, to be perfectly honest, the people that don't like the film will be those who miss this exact and specific detail.

[vegeta88]

Originally Posted by csdot

6-7 months is way too long for a movie like this, especially nowadays

I'm sure you are right. I must have been confused about something or other, maybe crossed wires with something else.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by silversnake

by your logic, I guess it's not a stretch to hope for a steelbook as well

I'm feeling a February release, hopefully with 3-4 exclusive steelbooks to choose from.

[Belloche]

Originally Posted by retablo

I don't grade on a curve... I mean, you can't compare apples to oranges. I just wasn't impressed at all. I wanted to love it, thought it looked cool.. but I haven't loved any of Nolan's films yet and think none of them really have any gravatas when it comes to human emotion. And Inception to me felt cold and calculating

I guess the problem with a breath of fresh air, to me, is that it tries so hard to be fresh, that it can fall even harder. i know some people are loving it, but several of my friends also didn't like it, although they liked it more than I did.

I just wish when filmmakers set up a world or big ideas that they would actually follow through with exploring them, instead of making every single scene a chase, or another boring shootout... it didn't need to be as loud and boisterous to explore dream logic, but somehow, that's how it ended up.

Oh well. I'm happy everyone else likes it, I'm a huge fan of Leo, not so much of Nolan though.

I don't disagree with some of your points. If I were to go into this movie looking for a gripping character study I would be sorely disappointed. What I saw was a clever heist flick with a sci-fi twist and that was fine by me. If you're admittedly sort of cold already on Nolan's stuff maybe your expectations are as much to blame as the movie.

[Batman1980]

That's actually the one big complaint I would have if I were to complain about this movie, his wife was a bit idealized. Oh and retablo you misspelled spoiler in your code, it's not spolier.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

First... please go back and add the SPOILER tag where I did in my quoting of your post.

Second... you obviously misinterpreted it.

LOL I "obviously" did, huh? That's quite presumtuous of you to think so... I guess I can't have an opinion if it differs from yours, and if I do, i obviously missed something? lol. Maybe everyone else is giving it a pass because they are Nolan apologists and think he is a genius when he's far from that?

I disagree with this because

[Show spoiler] the whole point of the dang story was that he felt guilty for using inception on her in the first place and that it drove her to kill herself... but if i don't care about her - or him, for that matter - then there's absolutely nothing left of the film but a couple of effects and loud clanging every 10 seconds. The basis for EVERY film is emotion... and human emotion and interaction. That is the basis for daily life as well... and I doubt very seriously that a filmmaker wouldn't want you to feel empathy for a character driven to suicide by the act of another... she was, in a sense, helpless. But I'm not supposed to feel anything about that?
Well, I didn't, because the whole thing was too concentrated on exposition and explosions to even care about it's characters. It's a shame, too. Better luck next time.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

That's actually the one big complaint I would have if I were to complain about this movie, his wife was a bit idealized. Oh and retablo you misspelled spoiler in your code, it's not spolier.

How can hes wife be idealized?

[Show spoiler]She wasn't even real 99% of the time we see her. She was a representation of Cobbs guilt. Therefore, she never has been, nor never was, designed to be anything but a tool through which Cobb comes to his own catharsis. See my post I quoted below which was a response to retablo.

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Second... you obviously misinterpreted it. You aren't suppose to feel ANY empathy towards his wife Mal because

[Show spoiler]the only version of Mal we ever really see in the film is not his wife. It's a physical representation of his own guilt that takes the shape of the person towards whom he feels the guilt for having planted the idea that led to her suicide in the real world. The only time we see his real wife is when she commits suicide. It's the only time we get a sense of who she is and what her desires are. And, even then, they aren't her own desires. She has been long been destroyed by Cobbs inception of her. You can't possibly feel sympathy or empathize with a character who only really appears for maybe 1 minute and 30 seconds in the film!!!

And, to be perfectly honest, the people that don't like the film will be those who miss this exact and specific detail.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Belloche

I don't disagree with some of your points. If I were to go into this movie looking for a gripping character study I would be sorely disappointed. What I saw was a clever heist flick with a sci-fi twist and that was fine by me. If you're admittedly sort of cold already on Nolan's stuff maybe your expectations are as much to blame as the movie.

I didn't go into it looking for a character study, I just expected it to have at least more depth than your average B-grade actioner. But I guess they needed yet another chase in the film and forgot that human characters are in it.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by retablo

I didn't go into it looking for a character study, I just expected it to have at least more depth than your average B-grade actioner. But I guess they needed yet another chase in the film and forgot that human characters are in it.

[Show spoiler]To me that was actually part of the point of the movie. Outside of Cobb I think you're supposed to question whether or not the rest of his team really exists or if they're just projections as part of his false reality.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by retablo

LOL I "obviously" did, huh? That's quite presumtuous of you to think so... I guess I can't have an opinion if it differs from yours, and if I do, i obviously missed something? lol. Maybe everyone else is giving it a pass because they are Nolan apologists and think he is a genius when he's far from that?

I disagree with this because

[Show spoiler] the whole point of the dang story was that he felt guilty for using inception on her in the first place and that it drove her to kill herself... but if i don't care about her - or him, for that matter - then there's absolutely nothing left of the film but a couple of effects and loud clanging every 10 seconds. The basis for EVERY film is emotion... and human emotion and interaction. That is the basis for daily life as well... and I doubt very seriously that a filmmaker wouldn't want you to feel empathy for a character driven to suicide by the act of another... she was, in a sense, helpless. But I'm not supposed to feel anything about that?
Well, I didn't, because the whole thing was too concentrated on exposition and explosions to even care about it's characters. It's a shame, too. Better luck next time.

The only way to feel empathy towards the wife is through

[Show spoiler]Cobbs suffering. The only Mal we know is the woman we see constantly attacking people in the dream space. THAT is a projection of Cobbs guilt trying to protect itself from outside influences within the subconscious realm. They state this clearly in the film about the populating of the dreams with "people." So, we see the woman commit suicide and we hear Ariadne find out from Arthur that in real life "she was nice." How can anyone feel for a character based on 1 minute and 30 seconds of screen time and another character saying that they were nice? I can't believe that Nolan didn't have to remind Cotillard of that during filming. As an actor, I know how difficult it can be to play an abstract role instead of a real one. And she did an amazing job at KEEPING THE AUDIENCE FROM EMPATHIZING WITH HER! The audience is not suppose to empathize with her. They are meant to empathize with Cobb. Everyone has felt guilty about something or other in their lifetime. Most still have some guilt brewing deep inside. THAT is the beauty of this film. THAT is why everyone can relate so long as they understand what Mal actually represents almost the entire length of the film. ACTUALLY, in that way, SHE IS THE ANTAGONIST OF THE FILM! It's hard to enjoy an antagonist when the antagonist is made out to be the reason that the hero can't achieve his goals.

As for caring about Cobb?

[Show spoiler]I can see where Nolan used the children as a device for getting the audience to WANT Cobb to be successful. So, by saying that you didn't feel empathy towards Cobb is saying that you probably didn't care whether he got to his children. Which, in turn, is saying that you probably didn't care if he conquered his guilt. Which, in turn, is saying that you probably just didn't care about anything at all about the film. Which probably means that you went into the film knowing that you wouldn't like a Christopher Nolan film. Which probably means that you won't allow yourself to like a Christopher Nolan film.

Please note how often I used the term "probably" and where I used it.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

The only way to feel empathy towards the wife is through

[Show spoiler]Cobbs suffering. The only Mal we know is the woman we see constantly attacking people in the dream space. THAT is a projection of Cobbs guilt trying to protect itself from outside influences within the subconscious realm. They state this clearly in the film about the populating of the dreams with "people." So, we see the woman commit suicide and we hear Ariadne find out from Arthur that in real life "she was nice." How can anyone feel for a character based on 1 minute and 30 seconds of screen time and another character saying that they were nice? I can't believe that Nolan didn't have to remind Cotillard of that during filming. As an actor, I know how difficult it can be to play an abstract role instead of a real one. And she did an amazing job at KEEPING THE AUDIENCE FROM EMPATHIZING WITH HER! The audience is not suppose to empathize with her. They are meant to empathize with Cobb. Everyone has felt guilty about something or other in their lifetime. Most still have some guilt brewing deep inside. THAT is the beauty of this film. THAT is why everyone can relate so long as they understand what Mal actually represents almost the entire length of the film. ACTUALLY, in that way, SHE IS THE ANTAGONIST OF THE FILM! It's hard to enjoy an antagonist when the antagonist is made out to be the reason that the hero can't achieve his goals.

[Show spoiler]Mal isn't just the antagonist, she's the driving force behind Cobb, she defines him and makes him the person he is. Probably why he uses her totem, even if that's not supposed to be possible

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

[Show spoiler]Mal isn't just the antagonist, she's the driving force behind Cobb, she defines him and makes him the person he is. Probably why he uses her totem, even if that's not supposed to be possible

See, this is a brilliant pardox within the film!

[Show spoiler]The thing that defines and drives him (his guilt defines, the conquering of his guilt drives) is also the thing that is fighting against him and standing in his way of achieving his goal!

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by retablo

I don't grade on a curve... I mean, you can't compare apples to oranges.

I have no problem with people disliking this movie, or any movie for that matter. I just don't understand the need to "attention grab" with a score of a 1. A 1 should be reserved for something you found completely despicable. Like "I wanted to walk out on this movie" kind of bad.

If you take any offense to me saying so, I apologize. But that's just how I feel on the matter.

[SleeperAgent]

Best movie of the year by far. Maybe the decade IMO. I loved the ending. The only thing I didn't like about the movie was it felt short to me. I was expecting something closer to 3 hours or more.