INCEPTION Review Thread (SPOILERS!!)

[lDlisturb3d]

Just viewed this flick for the 4th time and it never gets old. What a flick.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by lDlisturb3d

Just viewed this flick for the 4th time and it never gets old. What a flick.

We're going to have to put up a poll at the end of the month asking people how many times they saw it.

[bandapart]

I loved the film until the Fischer inception began to unfold.

The strategy used to convince him to break up and destroy the empire his father spent a lifetime to build was implausible to me.

That's when the film jumped the shark and became a mess giving rise to all the D&D like minutiae.

[lDlisturb3d]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

We're going to have to put up a poll at the end of the month asking people how many times they saw it.

Nice! I bet the mean is gonna be about 2 with the median being 3.

[Azyiu]

Originally Posted by bandapart

I loved the film until the Fischer inception began to unfold.

The strategy used to convince him to break up and destroy the empire his father spent a lifetime to build was implausible to me.

That's when the film jumped the shark and became a mess giving rise to all the D&D like minutiae.

You have a point there, but I also thought Fischer really didn't need much to be convinced. In fact, he only needed to feel wanted and appreciated by his father, that's all.

[ArrestedDevelopment]

Originally Posted by bandapart

I loved the film until the Fischer inception began to unfold.

The strategy used to convince him to break up and destroy the empire his father spent a lifetime to build was implausible to me.

That's when the film jumped the shark and became a mess giving rise to all the D&D like minutiae.

[Show spoiler]Hence going 3 levels down into dreams to give the illusion that the idea was self-generated. It's not implausible considering that his relationship with his father was "complicated".

[Buddy Christ]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

I want to see the script then.

[Show spoiler]Both times I understood it to mean that he could control a longer deep sleep with amazing stability. I still maintain that he can't effect how much longer each dream level will be perceived. That type of thing is far to deeply rooted in the human psyche to be manipulated.

WE ARE IN AGREEMENT THEN.

[Show spoiler]I stated that a kick is only able to be performed as a physical action to the person asleep in the dream level. So, When Arthur performs the kick in the elevator, he is still performing a kick ON THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP. He does not perform the kick on himself. So, the elevator brings the team back from that next level of dreaming. Someone else implied that the scenario you mentioned would have sent Arthur back to the van instead of the van hitting the water sending him back. What I was counterpointing was that somebody was saying something along the lines of, "Why don't Saito & Cobb just perform a kick on themselves to get out of limbo instead of killing themselves?" Or... something like that. THAT is the situation that is not possible. You can't kick yourself from within the dream in which you are consciously (or subconsciously?) active. It either has to happen as a physical jolt to your sleeping body in the previous level or the drug/timer in the machine used in the previous level has to wear out/end.

So, we are in agreement that a kick can take place in a dream, however it cannot be initiated by someone from within their immediate personal experience. And, I don't consider death a kick by the definition of 'kick' in the film. Death within a dream is something completely different than a kick.

I checked tonight and when Cobb first meets Yuseff at the room with 12 dreamers Cobb asks "How long are they sleeping? Yuseff; 4 hours. Cobb: and dream state? Yuseff; With this compound, 40 hours.

This is the first implication that the compound dictates the hours available.


Later when planning the Inception Yuseff states something like (sorry don't remember exact quote) With this sedative we get more brain activity. made this sedative to be able to give you one week at level one. Six months at level 2 and ten years at level 3.


This show that at the first meeting one hour real time meant 10 hrs dream time. And later with the new concoction one hour meant on 1 year ( the flight was 10 hours)


I hope this clears this up

[Buddy Christ]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Dude... you do a horrible job in resonding to other peoples posts. It looks like you are just highlighting what someone else has said. Then, once reading, it looks like the person you quoted is contradicting themself repeatedly.

When you click on Quote, look at the way the text is wrapped in "[QUOOTE]" and "[/QUOOTE]" minus those extra O's. You really should isolate sections of the post and use those tags. Type your response in between.

I understood

[Buddy Christ]

Originally Posted by Blu3

-

They do not plug into Fisher. There was a defib and a dream machine there. But Cobb hooks her and himself up but not to Fischer. Fischer is already in limbo, no need to hook up cause he is already one level down, they do not need to hook up to Saito either cause when he dies he goes down one level also.

[Buddy Christ]

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Did they say that? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I saw it twice and don't remember that. Also, if it were limbo, how the hell did Fischer get out so easily? Ariadne just threw him off the roof. I thought the whole point was that you had to know and BELIEVE you were lost to get out of it. Things like these are evidence that it's not limbo, but just another dream, Cobb's dream.

Yes they said that

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

Yes they said that

[Show spoiler]Saito didn't know he was down there or he would've gotten out on his own. You just have to die in limbo, doesn't matter what you believe once you do.

[Buddy Christ]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

[Show spoiler]Saito didn't know he was down there or he would've gotten out on his own. You just have to die in limbo, doesn't matter what you believe once you do.

Misunderstanding of his post. My bad.


Evening Gandalf or Morning!

[mjbethancourt]

You rock, Buddy Christ!
You saved me a lot of trouble, I wasn't having any luck finding a copy of the script.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Blu3

Right, they did go into limbo, but nobody explicitly says level "4" - that's the point I was trying to make. Limbo is a level where anyone jumps to if they die, no matter where they are, no matter what dream level they're in when they die. Limbo can be level 4 or level 50, I don't think the movie ever ties a level number to it.

Maybe we're on the same side about this. Originally I thought your post was in support of JTStarkiller's post where he proposes limbo is level 4 (you quoted him). Were you agreeing or disagreeing with him?




I don't think they both had to succeed for it to work (and simultaneously, nonetheless). Nobody zapped Saito and Cobb when they got out of limbo and nobody zapped Cobb's wife when they layed on the train tracks (along with Cobb himself). Why would the rules change for Fischer?

You can go to limbo from ANY LEVEL. Remember what Cobb said to Eames when he wanted to shoot Saito to wake him up? They were on a Level 1 dream and shooting Saito then would have sent him to Limbo. So Level 4 doesn't necessarily mean anything. You go to Limbo when you are lost in your subconscious.

[danman227460]

No. That is incorrect. I believe due to the nature of the sedative that they used, it would have been pointless to shoot him as that wouldn't have woken him up like it normally would have. Which could mean shooting him would just send him into limbo. The sedative was specially made to retain the inner ear balance so a kick would work but shooting someone was ineffective.

Level 4 was you were so far into your own subconscious that nothing would have woken you up and if you die, you will be lost in your own mind.

Originally Posted by radagast

You can go to limbo from ANY LEVEL. Remember what Cobb said to Eames when he wanted to shoot Saito to wake him up? They were on a Level 1 dream and shooting Saito then would have sent him to Limbo. So Level 4 doesn't necessarily mean anything. You go to Limbo when you are lost in your subconscious.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

Because Fischer had not yet completed the mission. They still needed him to get back and open the vault and talk to his father, all before the kick-chain gets them back up through the levels to the van, (where they presumably finish out their "week" at that level, waiting for the sedative to wear off). If Fischer had just used the "kill" method to escape Limbo, he would not have gone back to the Mountain Base where he was still needed, (who knows what would have happened... under that sedative, there's no guarantee that he would just wake up on the plane, he may probably still be "out"). He needed to be defibrillated to get him back to the Mountain Base, instead of merely "out of Limbo". They had to do both in order to stay in control of Fischer. I guess I wasn't very clear what I meant by "they both had to succeed for it to work".

Makes sense to me - thanks!

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

They do not plug into Fisher. There was a defib and a dream machine there. But Cobb hooks her and himself up but not to Fischer. Fischer is already in limbo, no need to hook up cause he is already one level down, they do not need to hook up to Saito either cause when he dies he goes down one level also.

I'm going to have to watch this movie again for sure. Some say they were hooked up to Fischer via a dream machine, others say no. I'm leaning towards "yes", because when you say "one level down" for limbo you're assuming limbo is level 4, which it could be, but not neccessarily, as the movie never ties it to a numbered level. No matter where they are, if they die, they go to limbo - but that doesn't mean limbo is "one level down" - clearly not true if you die in dream level 1, as Saito did, sending him straight to limbo, not level 2. Besides, if Cobb and Ariadne weren't hooked up to Fischer, how did they get to limbo? They never killed themselves in level 3.

Originally Posted by radagast

You can go to limbo from ANY LEVEL. Remember what Cobb said to Eames when he wanted to shoot Saito to wake him up? They were on a Level 1 dream and shooting Saito then would have sent him to Limbo. So Level 4 doesn't necessarily mean anything. You go to Limbo when you are lost in your subconscious.

huh...that's what I said dude. I think you mis-read my posts.

Originally Posted by danman227460

Level 4 was you were so far into your own subconscious that nothing would have woken you up and if you die, you will be lost in your own mind.

I don't remember a level 4?? Just levels 1, 2, 3 and limbo (which has no level number).

[Buddy Christ]

Originally Posted by Blu3

I'm going to have to watch this movie again for sure. Some say they were hooked up to Fischer via a dream machine, others say no. I'm leaning towards "yes", because when you say "one level down" for limbo you're assuming limbo is level 4, which it could be, but not neccessarily, as the movie never ties it to a numbered level. No matter where they are, if they die, they go to limbo - but that doesn't mean limbo is "one level down" - clearly not true if you die in dream level 1, as Saito did, sending him straight to limbo, not level 2. Besides, if Cobb and Ariadne weren't hooked up to Fischer, how did they get to limbo? They never killed themselves in level 3.

They never hooked up to Saito either.

Limbo = UNCONSTRUCTED dream space (no architect) Ariadne only designed first 3 levels. So going down another level either through death or machine brings you to Limbo. Limbo will either be empty dream space or if another dreamer has been there before (Cobb) you get their constructed space. Now, if Ariadne HAD designed a fourth level then Saito and Fischer would have been on "Level 5" because that is the first level of architecturally unconstructed dream space. But there was no level 5 design henceforth level four and Limbo are the same place.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Blu3

huh...that's what I said dude. I think you mis-read my posts.

I was supporting what you said.

Originally Posted by danman227460

No. That is incorrect. I believe due to the nature of the sedative that they used, it would have been pointless to shoot him as that wouldn't have woken him up like it normally would have. Which could mean shooting him would just send him into limbo. The sedative was specially made to retain the inner ear balance so a kick would work but shooting someone was ineffective.

Level 4 was you were so far into your own subconscious that nothing would have woken you up and if you die, you will be lost in your own mind.

That doesn't make sense. How would Saito have just skipped 2 levels and gone straight to Limbo, unless Limbo is independent of "dream levels"? When Cobb said that about Saito, they were all in a level one dream. Furthermore, Cobb had already escaped from Limbo once, according to Arthur. Additionally there was no indication that Cobb and Mal had been through 3 levels of dreaming before they went into Limbo. There is no hard evidence in the movie that the only thing after level 3 is limbo.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by radagast

I was supporting what you said.

Oh lol

Originally Posted by Buddy Christ

They never hooked up to Saito either.

Limbo = UNCONSTRUCTED dream space (no architect) Ariadne only designed first 3 levels. So going down another level either through death or machine brings you to Limbo. Limbo will either be empty dream space or if another dreamer has been there before (Cobb) you get their constructed space. Now, if Ariadne HAD designed a fourth level then Saito and Fischer would have been on "Level 5" because that is the first level of architecturally unconstructed dream space. But there was no level 5 design henceforth level four and Limbo are the same place.

I see what you're saying now. I suppose it could be.

So, if an architect designs a dream with only one level, level 1, and the dreamer uses a machine within level 1 to go down another level, he will end up in limbo, since essentially he ends un in unconstructed dream space, which is what limbo is.

Normally, if you die in a dream level, you wake up in the real world, but with Yusuuf's powerful sedative, when you die using it in a dream level, you also get sent to limbo (instead of waking up), which is whatever the first unconstructed dream level is - and it doesn't matter what number that turns out to be, since limbo is its own space, so all limbos are one in the same, e.g. if level 2 in a level 1 architectured dream is limbo, it is the same limbo (same space) as a level 4 limbo in a 3 level designed dream. Make sense?

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by radagast

I was supporting what you said.



That doesn't make sense. How would Saito have just skipped 2 levels and gone straight to Limbo, unless Limbo is independent of "dream levels"? When Cobb said that about Saito, they were all in a level one dream. Furthermore, Cobb had already escaped from Limbo once, according to Arthur. Additionally there was no indication that Cobb and Mal had been through 3 levels of dreaming before they went into Limbo. There is no hard evidence in the movie that the only thing after level 3 is limbo.

[Show spoiler]They got to limbo by continuing to push the limits of dreaming, which is how he knew it was possible to get to 3 levels of dreaming when he set up the mission to go after Fischer.