INCEPTION Review Thread (SPOILERS!!)

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by cvm

I think that he was awake at the end of the movie. As mentioned, he does see his kids faces, which he never sees at any other time in the movie.

He knows that if he sees his kids faces in the dream, that he'll likely stay - so he specifically turns his face away from them. I'm on the side that he's asleep and his totem (the top) will spin indefinitely. Looking at his kids faces @ the end only indicates that he's accepted this dream level as reality. He may never look at the totem again.

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

He knows that if he sees his kids faces in the dream, that he'll likely stay - so he specifically turns his face away from them. I'm on the side that he's asleep and his totem (the top) will spin indefinitely. Looking at his kids faces @ the end only indicates that he's accepted this dream level as reality. He may never look at the totem again.

nonono... he says in the movie that the reason he cant see his kids faces in the dreams is because that is the last vision he has of them, with their backs turned to him...so when he does see is kids faces, you know its noit a dream

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Lacit170

nonono... he says in the movie that the reason he cant see his kids faces in the dreams is because that is the last vision he has of them, with their backs turned to him...so when he does see is kids faces, you know its noit a dream

He says that, but it is more strongly implied that if he allows himself to see his kids faces in the dream, that will make him give into Mal (a projection of his guilt) and stay in limbo instead of getting back to them in reality.

You have to remember this little notion that human psychology often masks its true wants/needs when dealing with a traumatic event. That fact brings a whole knew understanding to the film and the actions of its main character.

[Porkchop Express]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

He says that, but it is more strongly implied that if he allows himself to see his kids faces in the dream, that will make him give into Mal (a projection of his guilt) and stay in limbo instead of getting back to them in reality.

You have to remember this little notion that human psychology often masks its true wants/needs when dealing with a traumatic event. That fact brings a whole knew understanding to the film and the actions of its main character.

That's a good point. I think there is a good arguement for either point of view. I love the discussion that comes from Nolan's movies. As much as I enjoy his Batman movies, I'm anxious for him to finish up with that francise, so we can keep getting movies like Inception, The Prestige, and Memento.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Express

I finally saw this last night , so I'm a little late to this 100+ page discussion. After reading through a bit of this thread, my thoughts on the movie more or less agree with MJbethancourt ideas.

This has probably been discussed, but at the end, does anyone feel that seeing his children's faces serves as a totem. We never saw them in the dreams.

Yes. I too suggested that at one point. Nobody is locked-in to only having one totem.

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

He knows that if he sees his kids faces in the dream, that he'll likely stay - so he specifically turns his face away from them. I'm on the side that he's asleep and his totem (the top) will spin indefinitely. Looking at his kids faces @ the end only indicates that he's accepted this dream level as reality. He may never look at the totem again.

I agree with the bolded part; but I think it works within the "totem" idea. Since he hadn't seen them in so long, he doesn't want to look at their faces and have to accept that the only way he can see them is as dream projections; he's not dealing with his issues. He is punishing himself by imprisoning himself in his regretful memories. At the end, he sees the children grown two years older, and doesn't bother waiting to see what happens to the top... he may not even care what happens to the top. While I don't believe that he is dreaming at the end, I think the closing shot says that in his new state of mind, he doesn't really care if he's dreaming or not, because he's finally happy. That closing shot says more about the movie than I could ever say in a tiresome wall-of-text.

[Pelican170]

If he is still in a dream then that makes the whole movie pointless and never tells us if they actually succeeded in planting that "idea" in the guys head to split the business. Leo says the only way that he can go back home is to help the Asian guy with this plan because the Asian guy has the ties to lift the charges that Leo has against him. At the end, he sees his childeren, implying that he is finally home and the job was completed successfully. The top spinning is just to get people talking but doesnt mean anything more than that. How could it? During the movie, he shows the girl that he is training that top and how it works and he spins it and it falls. This shows that they are in fact awake and then they go into the sleep to do the mission at hand. Therefore, they complete the mission, eventually wake up and he goes home...Besides, hahaha the top is about to topple over right before the credits role anyways lol.

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

He says that, but it is more strongly implied that if he allows himself to see his kids faces in the dream, that will make him give into Mal (a projection of his guilt) and stay in limbo instead of getting back to them in reality.

You have to remember this little notion that human psychology often masks its true wants/needs when dealing with a traumatic event. That fact brings a whole knew understanding to the film and the actions of its main character.

but he tells his own projection of his wife that his memory of her will never be as perfect as she really was... and thats why he cant stay

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

If he is still in a dream then that makes the whole movie pointless and never tells us if they actually succeeded in planting that "idea" in the guys head to split the business. Leo says the only way that he can go back home is to help the Asian guy with this plan because the Asian guy has the ties to lift the charges that Leo has against him. At the end, he sees his childeren, implying that he is finally home and the job was completed successfully. The top spinning is just to get people talking but doesnt mean anything more than that. How could it? During the movie, he shows the girl that he is training that top and how it works and he spins it and it falls. This shows that they are in fact awake and then they go into the sleep to do the mission at hand. Therefore, they complete the mission, eventually wake up and he goes home...Besides, hahaha the top is about to topple over right before the credits role anyways lol.

Agree... it's an artistic device, not a clue.

Nolan's filmmaking style of misdirection gets people in the mode of "looking for (and often mis-identifying) clues". I like it, it's stimulating.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Lacit170

but he tells his own projection of his wife that his memory of her will never be as perfect as she really was... and thats why he cant stay

Think about the psychology of the character. His subconscious is trying to find a way to convince him to give up and stay with Mal (his projection of his own guilt) in order to make him suffer. Subconsciously, he wants to punish himself because he believes that he is responsible for the death of his real wife. Cobb tells that to his own projection of his wife, yes. And that is him finally denying his guilt the satisfaction of making him suffer any longer. But, when Mal calls out to the children in that scene, he hasn't come to that cathartic conclusion yet. He knows that if he were to see his kids faces in that environment, that it could potentially be the straw that breaks the camels proverbial back. He might not be able to control the urge to run to them and accept limbo as his reality for another 50+ years. His conscious self fights against that urge.

On a side note:
Ok, I just came back from seeing the film for a 3rd time and I can honestly say that I am disappointed. Buddy Christ and mjbethancourt were right about Cobb & Ariadne not using the dream machine to link to Fischer. Happy now Mr. Inconsiderate? So, that destroys the integrity of the final chapter for me. Nothing should have happened the way it did in the end because of that detail. In my eyes, those last 15-20 minutes are rubbish. Still an amazing film though.

Also, Yussuf does mention that his chemical enhances brain activity within the dream state to allow for a larger time variation than the normal compound. However, he states it more matter-of-factly than as a variable which he knows he can control. Therefore, I still maintain that he can't control the effect. It just so happened that he discovered that this compound makes a difference.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

If he is still in a dream then that makes the whole movie pointless and never tells us if they actually succeeded in planting that "idea" in the guys head to split the business. Leo says the only way that he can go back home is to help the Asian guy with this plan because the Asian guy has the ties to lift the charges that Leo has against him. At the end, he sees his childeren, implying that he is finally home and the job was completed successfully. The top spinning is just to get people talking but doesnt mean anything more than that. How could it? During the movie, he shows the girl that he is training that top and how it works and he spins it and it falls. This shows that they are in fact awake and then they go into the sleep to do the mission at hand. Therefore, they complete the mission, eventually wake up and he goes home...Besides, hahaha the top is about to topple over right before the credits role anyways lol.

Actually the top spinning at the end is tied to the"trick" Cobbs played on Mal while in Limbo. To make her realize that they were in a dream, he used her own totem against her, by making it spin endlessly inside her safe, so that she would realize what was happening when opening it.

The whole point at the end is double: He spins the top to check if he is dreaming, -BUT- he doesn't wait to see what happens. Thing is, at this point, he doesn't care anymore and just wants to be with his kids now that he has dealt with his guilt. At first I thought that seeing the kid's faces was a clear giveaway that it wasn't a dream, but things aren't that easy I think.
The second point is to keep the viewers guessing, of course (the wobbling of the top might indicate that it's about tof all, but we don't know for sure)

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Actually the top spinning at the end is tied to the"trick" Cobbs played on Mal while in Limbo. To make her realize that they were in a dream, he used her own totem against her, by making it spin endlessly inside her safe, so that she would realize what was happening when opening it.

The whole point at the end is double: He spins the top to check if he is dreaming, -BUT- he doesn't wait to see what happens. Thing is, at this point, he doesn't care anymore and just wants to be with his kids now that he has dealt with his guilt. At first I thought that seeing the kid's faces was a clear giveaway that it wasn't a dream, but things aren't that easy I think.
The second point is to keep the viewers guessing, of course (the wobbling of the top might indicate that it's about tof all, but we don't know for sure)

Exactly! The spinning top at the end has absolutely no signifigance. The film isn't about whether he gets home to his kids. The film is about the cathartic purging of his guilt. The plot itself is the means to an end. The plot is the means by which Cobb is able to come to the end of his journey. The film is really a character study cleverly wrapped in an intriguing subconscious thriller story.

[ScarredLungs]

Originally Posted by Foggy

When he's in the real world his ring is off, but when he's in a dream his ring is on. At the end when he see's his children his ring is off.

That is what I've heard, but I've never taken notice out of my 4 times in the theater That gives me reason to go see it a 5th time!

After I heard that I often that made sense for him to have another totem. If he was using Mal's totem that means she knew the weight of it and how it spins. She could then manipulate it in the dream state. I think the reason he spins it to see if Mal is around, in any dream state. The ring is to show that he is awake. If his ring if off, he is awake. If his ring is on, depending on the top totem, depends if Mal is around....

Just an idea..

[ScarredLungs]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Exactly! The spinning top at the end has absolutely no signifigance. The film isn't about whether he gets home to his kids. The film is about the cathartic purging of his guilt. The plot itself is the means to an end. The plot is the means by which Cobb is able to come to the end of his journey. The film is really a character study cleverly wrapped in an intriguing subconscious thriller story.

Very well said. I agree 100%. That is what I have been saying for a long time. Whether he is awake or sleep has no effect on the message the film has to offer.....

although my vote goes to him being awake.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

So, that destroys the integrity of the final chapter for me. Nothing should have happened the way it did in the end because of that detail. In my eyes, those last 15-20 minutes are rubbish. Still an amazing film though.

No, I'm not happy. I really hoped that you would be open-minded about the explanation I offered for the ending, once you saw for yourself. That's a shame, that you can't accept a perfectly reasonable explanation for the ending, and accept the movie on the terms in which it is presented, instead of what you thought you saw the first time. Oh well, it made perfect sense to me, but if it didn't make sense to you, that's your loss... at least you still like most of the movie.

P.S.: When Eames first recommended Yusuf, he described him as a chemist who tailored his own compounds.

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As for the spinning top:

Among other things, the closing shot is visual irony: the thing that he has "dreamed" about for so long, has now become reality.

It was a brilliant choice for a closing shot. I'm impressed. Those are the little touches that I really like about Nolan films. He's very good at provoking thought with simple images.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Finally saw this today. My wife and I both thought it was great. It was kind of long, but we were anxious to see how it turned out. Nolan delivers again. I don't know if I can say he is the best modern director, but he's the most consistent right now.

I thougt the sfx were great, nothing looked overtly fake except

[Show spoiler]when Page and Leo first stepped up the sideways street.

The fight scene with JGL in the hotel with no gravity was amazing. I am still trying to figure out how they filmed that.

I gave it a 4 out of 5, but my vote would be 4.5.


Bring on the Blu!

[lDlisturb3d]

Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai

Finally saw this today. My wife and I both thought it was great. It was kind of long, but we were anxious to see how it turned out. Nolan delivers again. I don't know if I can say he is the best modern director, but he's the most consistent right now.

I thougt the sfx were great, nothing looked overtly fake except

[Show spoiler]when Page and Leo first stepped up the sideways street.

The fight scene with JGL in the hotel with no gravity was amazing. I am still trying to figure out how they filmed that.

I gave it a 4 out of 5, but my vote would be 4.5.


Bring on the Blu!

i gave the film 5/5 and im stingy with the 5's but you cant argue the fact that he is consistent. Nice review

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai

The fight scene with JGL in the hotel with no gravity was amazing. I am still trying to figure out how they filmed that.

Maybe in a vertical hallway set (or maybe like with '2001', where they used "movable" or rotatable sets), with a combination of wire-harness work and some CG work?

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai

The fight scene with JGL in the hotel with no gravity was amazing. I am still trying to figure out how they filmed that.

This article gives a pretty good and fascinating overview of how it was done.

[SleeperAgent]

This movie is still number 3 on the IMDB top 250 with over 150,000 votes. I do believe it will be in the top 10 for quite some time.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by SleeperAgent

This movie is still number 3 on the IMDB top 250 with over 150,000 votes. I do believe it will be in the top 10 for quite some time.

It could easily stay there for a very long time. It's not as if any of the older high-ranked movies are going to make a surge in popularity. As enthusiasm dies down, the vote influx will slow to a trickle, so it won't drop much in it's average score, and that will only move it down a couple spots. Much in the same way that 'The Dark Knight' has only moved down from it's peak of a virtual tie for #1, to where it sits now at #11. It can only get dislodged through (inevitable) over-exuberance for the next great movie, and the next, and so on. I think it will probably be a few years before it gets bumped out of the top 10.