HDR Discussion Thread

[GunZenBomZ]

Good to see them showing 8K chip info.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Basically, broadcast audio standards. I just wish Dolby had stuck with Dolby Atmos as is rather than dumb it down further than the Blu-ray version to try and squeeze it into a smaller space.

Dolby AC-4 is so cut down that it feels a bit cheap. A basic Dolby AC-4 decoder supports 7 audio objects and 5.1 speaker output while a cinema Dolby Atmos decoder supports 128 audio objects and 64 speaker output. The basic Dolby AC-4 decoder is so limited that it is almost a step back from Dolby Digital Plus.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

lol, Richard, I’m informed thru email that we are “discreetly” being closely monitored by a twitter news account that never acknowledges this thread as a resource, but eagerly references other websites like HDD, etc.

14 hours after your post….https://twitter.com/UHD4k/status/807953424016883712

What is ironic is that some of the tech blogs have given him the courtesy of naming his twitter account as the source.

http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?sub...&id=1481526782

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by GunZenBomZ

Good to see them showing 8K chip info.

Zen, you do love your 8K.

Anyway, with regards to optimal recording for thee best quality possible HDR imagery, readers should also make note of the Recorded Bit Depth column (i.e. 16 bit vs 12/10 bit cameras) and just as important, if you're dealing with a cutting edge post facility, to maintain that 16bit bit depth throughout the workflow, as described to ray…… https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post12534569

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

What is ironic is that some of the tech blogs have given him the courtesy of naming his twitter account as the source.

http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?sub...&id=1481526782

Rather than ironic….more like pathetic.
Ah, the echo chamber of the blogger internet . Much the same thing happened after this video clip was first posted on this thread of Blu-ray.com - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post12192776 ,

then, lo and behold, 16 hours later ->
https://twitter.com/UHD4k/status/729740751974899712

then, a few days after that -> -> http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1463138030

Of course they’d never post the math of ST 2094 Application #1 as noted in the hyperlink (before the SMPTE doc was published), nor for that matter the SEI payload Syntax for ST 2094-40 (Samsung’s dynamic metadata solution) - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...i#post12940066
because that would be too obvious to well informed readers they were regularly monitoring and sourcing this thread without acknowledgment.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Zen

Or a couple letters back in thee alphabet to X en, reminds me,

Public Service Announcement

My ophthamological (man, that’s a mouthful) friends with whom I have regular conversations with about vision science, color science, visual acuity, etc. as their clinical perspective to such topics is always valuable and quite a few have B.S. degrees (or higher) in engineering despite ultimately choosing medicine as a profession, inform me that this little device is a rather big deal…. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300367113.html

So, if readers have any friends or family not experiencing successful outcomes with prior glaucoma surgeries (and there are a lot of people suffering with that dilemma), inform them to keep a serious eye out for the XEN45 launch in the U.S. It could very well make a profound difference in the quality of their lives.

Footnote ( https://twitter.com/billmckibben/sta...91393569243140 )
Some of the greatest things have been done by people you may have never heard of….quietly dedicating their lives to improving other peoples’ quality of life. One such individual and the principal investigator for the XEN’s FDA trial.….. https://wuphysicians.wustl.edu/for-p...am-sheybani-md

[Penton-Man]

Follow-up to heads-up from last November’s post…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post12908556 regarding Planet Earth II for attendees -

The PTS screening of the episode will be enabled by Panasonic's new 4K HDR laser projector.

[Penton-Man]

Little pictured green animals with big red eyes ^ seem to get a lot of face time in promotions…..as well as in the grading suite -

[Penton-Man]

That is an SDR monitor with gamma set to 2.4 on the far right ^.

[Penton-Man]

Cropped for the sake of PeterTHX -



And SG in the caption of the above pic stands for?....anyone?

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Cropped for the sake of PeterTHX -



And SG in the caption of the above pic stands for?....anyone?

Well, I'll bite.

How about S-Log gamma? (hopefully Google was my friend...)

"Pat, can I spin the Wheel again?"

[DanBa]

There are many flavors of HDR.
The TV business logic should be "to manufacture and sell interoperable televisions to consumers".




I’d be very surprised if the 2017 LG OLED TVs won’t support all currently functional HDR formats (i.e. HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR and VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR) due to the following facts:

. Pledge to support all major formats:
"In regards to HDR, LG has made an important pledge to support all major formats, including Dolby Vision, which other TV manufacturers have shied away from backing." [CES 2016]
http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/5/107...unced-ces-2016

. HLG demos at IFA 2016:
"LG used a HLG broadcast signal to demonstrate HDR video on one of its existing E6 OLED TVs (2016 line-up). The company says that its OLED TVs are “compatible with the full range of HDR technologies”. However, the E6 OLED model at IFA was a customized model and LG would not promise a firmware update to add HLG support to the 2016 TV line-up. "
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...JaoYWtELaIj.99

. YouTube HDR demos at CES 2016:
"LG has also teamed up with a number of major global content providers to ensure that the best streaming content is readily available for HDR viewing. Visitors to the LG booth will also be able to experience YouTube’s HDR content for the first time, demonstrated using Google’s VP9-Profile 2 codec. YouTube will start to provide HDR playback through their TV app later this year."
http://www.lg.com/au/press-release/l...ontent-in-2016


As the industry is unable to reach a consensus on HDR, a (2017) HDR TV shall support all HDR formats in the same way AVRs have universal support for audio formats.



No more industry-driven HDR TV incompatible with other HDR content, but consumer-driven interoperable HDR TV able to play any HDR content!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Well, I'll bite.
How about S-Log gamma? (hopefully Google was my friend...)

gkolb, you got the gamma part correct , but missed the bullseye on the ‘S’ part.

Originally Posted by gkolb

"Pat, can I spin the Wheel again?"

Certainly, as well as for that matter anyone else willing to leave their knowledge-based comfort zone. A tip of the hat to you for giving it a go . Plus, there are a lot of things that I and others don’t know….like if your town ever saved ‘the sign’ ? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=holBS44V5gU#t=1m59s as I always kinda wondered about that.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

I’d be very surprised if the 2017 LG OLED TVs won’t support all currently functional HDR formats....

HLG demos at IFA 2016:http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...JaoYWtELaIj.99

After what’s transpired in our country over the past couple months and what could happen in the future, I’m pretty much not surprised at anything in life. Someone sent me the HFR hyperlink originating from that reporter’s article back in October…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post12834208 while we here were in detail specific discussion regarding the building blocks and testing of HFR/HDR.

As to HLG, I’m an advocate , as I believe it is a great stepping stone in promoting awareness of HDR to the masses especially thru live transmission and it’s certainly superior to what we have now (SDR). But alas, nothing in life is perfect, and a potential weakness of HLG as compared to the PQ transfer function (which I doubt has been mentioned by reporters given their rather superficial knowledge of the subject) is something I think we should mention in fairness to assessing both approaches….at least in terms of what the future may hold for a possible consumer TV nits race. Does anyone know specifically what I’m alluding to without me offering a hint as to how it could detrimentally effect certain imagery...at least without adding a higher degree of complexity to the solution?

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Plus, there are a lot of things that I and others don’t know….like if your town ever saved ‘the sign’ ? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=holBS44V5gU#t=1m59s as I always kinda wondered about that.

That sign has been refurb'ed and is up just outside the Buck Owens Crystal Palace (large performance hall, and dining venue). If anyone is going North on CA 99 thru town, the sign is just east of the highway a few hundred feet, near the Rosedale Hwy interchange.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...something I think we should mention in fairness to assessing both approaches….at least in terms of what the future may hold for a possible consumer TV nits race. Does anyone know specifically what I’m alluding to without me offering a hint as to how it could detrimentally effect certain imagery...

o.k. then, on with a hint -

HLG dealing with higher nits (2,000, 3,000, 4,000) possibly in years to come can pose a problem, but will not matter much to soccer fans given the cameras’ wide angle coverage of the field play and will be of negligible significance to American football fans given that players wear helmets and are pretty much all covered up these days. I’m referring to the main component of the integumentary System.

[Penton-Man]

So, for those not processing the hint, I’m talkin skin tones.

Although HLG skin tones with today’s monitors and TVs may be quite acceptable (even HLG conversions from PQ as viewed by independent observers - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post12847729), if future years bring consumers TVs with markedly higher luminances, then this may well become an issue. This is a busy time for me, preparing for the Holidays, traveling down to our get-away place in San Diego, etc. so I’ll have to elaborate later as to the how and why.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Cropped for the sake of PeterTHX -



And SG in the caption of the above pic stands for?....anyone?

SG stands for system gamma which is briefly mentioned in ITU BT.2100:

https://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BT.2100

SG is explained more fully in this BBC document on HDR from 2015:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper309

Originally Posted by DanBa

...
No more industry-driven HDR TV incompatible with other HDR content, but consumer-driven interoperable HDR TV able to play any HDR content!

That might be asking a bit much since every proprietary HDR method will add an additional royalty to the product and some of them are doing rather poorly. For example the pure metadata HDR method from Technicolor.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Dolby AC-4 is so cut down that it feels a bit cheap. A basic Dolby AC-4 decoder supports 7 audio objects and 5.1 speaker output while a cinema Dolby Atmos decoder supports 128 audio objects and 64 speaker output. The basic Dolby AC-4 decoder is so limited that it is almost a step back from Dolby Digital Plus.

The point was to squeeze down the bitrate without losing fidelity. AC-4 does what DD+ does using less data.

7.1.4 @144-288kbps

After the demos DTS threw in the towel because they had absolutely nothing that could compete.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

That might be asking a bit much since every proprietary HDR method will add an additional royalty to the product and some of them are doing rather poorly. For example the pure metadata HDR method from Technicolor.

"I’d be very surprised if the 2017 LG OLED TVs won’t support all currently functional HDR formats (i.e. HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR and VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR)"

I should be more precise:

No more industry-driven HDR TV incompatible with other HDR content, but consumer-driven interoperable HDR TV able to play any functional HDR content!

Functional: endorsed and put into practice by a Hollywood major or a big broadcaster.


At the end of the day, it is content that matters most, not content format.


I prefer music in lossless FLAC, but my music collection includes some lossy MP3 music files, otherwise unavailable in lossless format.

I cannot imagine my digital audio player doesn't support all major formats.

[DanBa]

Your Samsung TV now supports YouTube HDR - if you're lucky:
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome...URL=&referrer=

"Samsung has announced that from today (December 20th 2016) it will begin rolling out a new firmware update to some of its TVs that will enable them to play high dynamic range (HDR) videos from YouTube."