4K Movies Releases

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by saprano

You can get a somewhat similar look like they did with Skyfall, but even then you can tell it was shot digitally. And it lacked the texture of film...

Perhaps I’m incorrect but I don’t recall Roger D. chasing precisely the *filmic look* for Skyfall. On the contrary, his priority was to enter/capture "a new world" - http://www.arri.com/news/skyfall-the-biggest-bond-yet/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

I love film too (especially 70mm/IMAX and I also like the look of 16mm), but I think it's a bit early to say that digital cameras will never reach the quality of film cameras. The Alexa and the Sony F65 produce some stunning images. For example, I thought Oblivion looked very natural and didn't have the glossy/pasty look that I associate with digital acquisition.

While it is important to retain film as a capture option (and I'd like to see it used for distribution again, perhaps on a small scale in major markets), digital cameras will keep getting better. That's a good thing, not a bad thing....

As to your distribution comment, here’s a portion of the press release about 'Inter' from Paramount from about a year ago, bolding by moi…

Paramount Pictures, a division of Viacom, Inc., and Warner Bros. Pictures announced today that principal photography on “INTERSTELLAR” is officially underway in Alberta, Canada. The film will be released in IMAX® and 35mm theaters on November 7, 2014. Paramount Pictures will distribute domestically, Warner Bros. Pictures internationally.Directed and co-written by Christopher Nolan (“Inception,” “The Dark Knight” Trilogy), the production will travel the globe and utilize a mixture of 35mm anamorphic and IMAX film photography to bring to the screen a script based on the combination of an original idea by Nolan and an existing script by Jonathan Nolan, originally developed for Paramount Pictures and producer Lynda Obst. The new script chronicles…."

Given the recent news about film, we’ll see how well it all works out on the exhibition end….at least in terms of transient filmic viewing bliss. There were actually 15/70mm IMAX projector installs (temporary, rented) done to promote The Master.

[Penton-Man]

Now back to Peter, whom I promised a F/U post. Searching...thinking...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Actually, now that anything resembling soccer is safely off the airwaves....

If you’ve become bored of listening to the Dodgers/Angels freeway series on the airwaves, there’s always baseball in Taiwan ….

Sexy yoga baseball pitch: Taiwan coach Nineteen (房�) goes viral after throwing out first pitch - YouTube

I’ll try to remember to remind you the day before the Premier League season for English football (soccer) begins so you’ll have ample time to clear out your DVR of all the junk content to enable recording dem soccer matches from the most exciting professional soccer league in the world.

[Penton-Man]

Hmm, looking back ^….after that Taiwanese baseball YouTube video, I guess I'm obligated to do an asexual politically correct cold shower type post to help out those of us here not yet on Cialis or Viagra and might be having *a moment* like the catcher.

I’ll search for a more academically oriented video or pic in my library. Give me a few minutes.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...the testing involved what the investigators deemed a Grade 2 (https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3320.pdf ) 4K (3840 x 2160) 10 bit LCD monitor….(True 10-bit)

And “uncompressed” as in imagery recorded as 4096x2160 pixels/50p RAW, 4:4:4, 16 bit (S-Log2) with sequences including 180 and 90 degree shutter angles, then -> cropped to 3840x2160 pixels/50p and converted to DPX, RGB, 4:4:4, 10 bit (B.T.709) for presentation. So, a compression codec like for instance HEVC or H.264 was not used to display the ‘4K’ or ‘HD’ source on the ‘4K’ monitor for the testing.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I know of no scientific study that has measured the value in that fashion. You would have to rely on anecdotal evidence from fellow 4K tv owners.

What I can tell you is ….recognizing certain caveats or even possible limitations/flaws in previously presented European scientific testing, evidence has been presented that there is a statistically significant difference between 4K and 1080p and it has been measured in “grades” on a 5 point grade scale. 4K has been determined by such scientific testing to show a ½ grade difference better picture quality than 1080p at a 1.5 picture height screen-to-eye distance. Think of that sort of like 1080p being ‘good’ and 4K being ‘very good’.

Since it is assumed by investigators that many consumers will: 1. refuse to alter their current furniture arrangement to take full advantage of increased spatial resolution (4K), 2. won’t ever use larger desktop monitors in their offices/studies where they normally sit closer to the screen anyway, 3. not have any children who enjoy sitting on the floor closer to the TV to watch their favorite shows….testing was also done at the ‘normal’ seating position or screen-to-eye distance of 9 ft., with a 56” TV and at that distance, there was about a ¼ grade picture improvement for 4K source over 1080p source. Think of that sort of like the difference between ‘very good’ and ‘very, very good’.

2 caveats regarding the methodology which lead to the above results though -

1. This testing was done presenting scenes with uncompressed progressive source. It has been theorized (even conceded by the investigators themselves) that the improvement gap between 4K and HD might have been more significant if HEVC (or, for that matter, AVC) compressed contents had been used.

2. This was not a ‘side-by-side’ comparable 1080p display (less pixels) vs. a 4K display (more pixels). The 4K source was fed into a 4K tv….and… the 1080p source (downconverted from the same 4K source) was fed into the same 4K tv. Some people, such as Charles Poynton, believe that 4K tvs ‘work’ better than HD tvs because the 4K display pixels are so invisibly small that they don’t contribute any visible aliasing by themselves. So…in regards to those previous European tests, perhaps if a 4K display had been directly compared to a 1080p display; likewise, as in caveat #1, a larger improvement gap in picture quality difference may have been demonstrated between 4K and HD.

Anyway, for comparison purposes, other testing has shown HDR and HFR to offer a full grade improvement in picture quality, i.e. ‘good’ to excellent…independent of close or ‘typical’ viewing distances.

P.S. ‘Grades’ may seem a funky quality scale in comparison to a specific numerical value but there is some science behind it, see Fig. 6 around half way down the page in B.T.500-13…http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/...1-I!!PDF-E.pdf

An admittedly boring but , illustrative pic from some of the 4K European scientific testing described above….i.e. one individual at a time tested where the recipient/observer has no knowledge (as to whether 4K or HD) of the source material displayed. This is also known as a ‘single-blind test or trial’.



* the room lighting is for showing the venue and not precisely accurate to actual ambient light viewing conditions for the test.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

As to your distribution comment, here’s a portion of the press release about 'Inter' from Paramount from about a year ago, bolding by moi…

Paramount Pictures, a division of Viacom, Inc., and Warner Bros. Pictures announced today that principal photography on “INTERSTELLAR” is officially underway in Alberta, Canada. The film will be released in IMAX® and 35mm theaters on November 7, 2014. Paramount Pictures will distribute domestically, Warner Bros. Pictures internationally.Directed and co-written by Christopher Nolan (“Inception,” “The Dark Knight” Trilogy), the production will travel the globe and utilize a mixture of 35mm anamorphic and IMAX film photography to bring to the screen a script based on the combination of an original idea by Nolan and an existing script by Jonathan Nolan, originally developed for Paramount Pictures and producer Lynda Obst. The new script chronicles…."

Given the recent news about film, we’ll see how well it all works out on the exhibition end….at least in terms of transient filmic viewing bliss. There were actually 15/70mm IMAX projector installs (temporary, rented) done to promote The Master.

Thanks. I plan on seeing this movie at the Apple Valley, MN IMAX theater. Not the shoddy LieMAX- the 45/70 IMAX with real film!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Thanks. I plan on seeing this movie at the Apple Valley, MN...

In the meantime, as a digital aside, I’m not really familiar with what’s available in your neck of the woods but, if you can find a theater auditorium with a 4K projector (Mall of America??) showing the 2D version of dem Turtles (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1291150/) this coming Friday, the playlist should include a 4K trailer for Interstellar and a 2K trailer for SpongeBob 2.

Might be interesting to compare the two trailers for perceived difference in spatial resolution.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In the meantime, as a digital aside, I’m not really familiar with what’s available in your neck of the woods but, if you can find a theater auditorium with a 4K projector (Mall of America??) showing the 2D version of dem Turtles (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1291150/) this coming Friday, the playlist should include a 4K trailer for Interstellar and a 2K trailer for SpongeBob 2.

Might be interesting to compare the two trailers for perceived difference in spatial resolution.

That would be interesting. A lot of theaters here have the 4K Sony projectors (AMC, Regal, Paragon, etc) but I avoid them as they routinely have the 3D lenses installed for all showings. The MOA has 4K projectors so I assume they are Sony's as I have never encountered a 4K projector that wasn't one. The Carmike chain has 2K Christies, but thankfully those move the lens out of the way automatically so I go there.

The independent chains like Riverview/Lagoon/Heights don't have 4K but have excellent digital projectors as well as 35mm showings, particularly the Heights as they specialize in that. If you were ever to travel to my neck of the woods, it is a magical place to watch a movie.

http://www.heightstheater.com/

The Trylon has some nice choices too. I saw Stray Dog and High and Low for the first time in 35mm.

I saw Lawrence in 4K at the AMC theater in Eden Prairie a few years back and it was very impressive- very close to the 70mm print I saw at the Heights PQ wise although 24-bit, 48 KHz PCM sound doesn't hold a candle to the 70mm's 6-track magnetic sound.

Calling around and getting managers or "projectionists" to tell me if they had 4K projectors, 4K DCPs, and if they would remove the 3D lens for the showing was a simultaneously hilarious and depressing experience. Most just said that they had digital projectors or that they had 4K projectors and that's all I could get out of them. Only 2 out of 10 places knew what a DCP was and I finally found a manager that was adamant that he would get the 4K DCP. He was a stand-up guy with a lot of integrity. Shame he isn't working at that AMC anymore.

Overall, we Fargo folk have a lot of good theaters to choose from. It especially comes in handy when you feel like the outside world is instant death like the people on the Snowpiercer train did during the winter months. Uff da.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

...although 24-bit, 48 KHz PCM sound doesn't hold a candle to the 70mm's 6-track magnetic sound

People in the age of D-Cinema don't like to highlight that fact.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

That would be interesting. A lot of theaters here have the 4K Sony projectors (AMC, Regal, Paragon, etc) but I avoid them as they routinely have the 3D lenses installed for all showings. The MOA has 4K projectors so I assume they are Sony's...

My memory is fuzzy on this but I think when Theaters of Mall of America converted to all digital about a couple years ago they went with Christie? thusly assuring yourself of seeing the trailer of Interstellar in real 4K....at least if they're showing it in one of those 4K capable auditoriums you've mentioned.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

My memory is fuzzy on this but I think when Theaters of Mall of America converted to all digital about a couple years ago they went with Christie? thusly assuring yourself of seeing the trailer of Interstellar in real 4K....at least if they're showing it in one of those 4K capable auditoriums you've mentioned.

Possibly... the website just mentions 4K projectors but not a brand. I thought Christie didn't have 4K projectors? You may be right on this one.

[Steedeel]

http://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2014...ls-partnership

For Penton man.

The wheels are in motion for more exposure it seems. Good news all around.

As a side note, it looks like the oculus could be a future way of viewing movies. I read that the Oculus crew are having talks with several film companies. (I will try to find the link) Even if that is just a short lived fad I can't wait to try it out! 4k immersive goodness many years from now? Yes please!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Possibly... the website just mentions 4K projectors but not a brand. I thought Christie didn't have 4K projectors?

I really don’t know….just throwing it out as a possibility for you to investigate if you ever hang out at the Mall of America. But yes, Christie manufacturers a few 4K projectors. Even upgrade kits since 2011 - http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us...e-Program.aspx

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

now that anything resembling soccer is safely off the airwaves....

You think so?

Is It Safe? - Marathon Man (4/8) Movie CLIP (1976) HD - YouTube

Think again ….

Originally Posted by Steedeel

For Penton man.

http://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2014/8/8/5982463/sunderland-announce-link-up-with-dc-united-mls-partnership
The wheels are in motion for more exposure it seems. Good news all around.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

...As a side note, it looks like the oculus could be a future way of viewing movies. I read that the Oculus crew are having talks with several film companies. (I will try to find the link) Even if that is just a short lived fad I can't wait to try it out! 4k immersive goodness many years from now? Yes please!

When one of the best stereographers there is (Captain 3D), leaves his position at a Hollywood Studio (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...+d#post7704305)

Insider Context- https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...+d#post7844505

And transplants himself to another company collaborating with dem googles people…http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...mersive-705094, you know there is something(good) to that Oculus stuff.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

When one of the best stereographers there is (Captain 3D), leaves his position at a Hollywood Studio (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...+d#post7704305)

Insider Context- https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...+d#post7844505

And transplants himself to another company collaborating with dem googles people…http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...mersive-705094, you know there is something(good) to that Oculus stuff.

It's got the geek in me a little giddy!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It's got the geek in me a little giddy!

Same with me, but especially with those devices built to significantly change/help the lives of others; for instance, as compared to the Argus II that consists of 60 electrodes - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...sc#post6848325 with the next gen Argus, the Argus III, (not yet available to the general public) that will have 200+ electrodes which should provide even more improved vision for patients. Alas, the greatest device there is…. is still the human body…feel the tie-in coming?

In that vein, premiering tonight on Cinemax at 10 P.M. is Steven Soderbergh’s The Knick.
http://www.cinemax.com/the-knick/vid...=3625658601001

Shot with a RED camera and mastered in 4K (contrary to what is currently listed on imdb) and with the main character in the TV series (Dr. John Thackery), *Hollywood* inspired by the real life of Dr. William Halstead, who among other things, when he was the ripe old age of 29 years old, saved his sister’s life by giving her a direct blood transfusion of his own blood (reportedly being the first known transfusion in the U.S.) and ”performed one of the first gallbladder operations in the United States (a cholecystotomy performed on his mother on the kitchen table at 2 a.m.)”.

Short read - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted
Long read - http://halstedthedocumentary.org/halsted.php
Peer reviewed read - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448951/

“He was one of the first surgeons to employ courtesy in surgery, to show any consideration for the insides of a man he was operating on. The old method was to slit a man from the chin down, take out his bowels, and spread them on a towel while you sorted them. Halsted held that if you touched an intestine with your finger you injured it and the patient suffered the effects of the injury. That was a new doctrine when he began.

Halsted introduced rubber gloves. He invented the technique of shutting off the area of operation, blocking it with shots of cocaine in the surrounding nerves so there would be less general shock. He was gentle and a little inhuman. He had to be because he was so sensitive.”

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Same with me, but especially with those devices built to significantly change/help the lives of others; for instance, as compared to the Argus II that consists of 60 electrodes - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...sc#post6848325 with the next gen Argus, the Argus III, (not yet available to the general public) that will have 200+ electrodes which should provide even more improved vision for patients. Alas, the greatest device there is…. is still the human body…feel the tie-in coming?

In that vein, premiering tonight on Cinemax at 10 P.M. is Steven Soderbergh’s The Knick.
http://www.cinemax.com/the-knick/vid...=3625658601001

Shot with a RED camera and mastered in 4K (contrary to what is currently listed on imdb) and with the main character in the TV series (Dr. John Thackery), *Hollywood* inspired by the real life of Dr. William Halstead, who among other things, when he was the ripe old age of 29 years old, saved his sister’s life by giving her a direct blood transfusion of his own blood (reportedly being the first known transfusion in the U.S.) and ”performed one of the first gallbladder operations in the United States (a cholecystotomy performed on his mother on the kitchen table at 2 a.m.)”.

Short read - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted
Long read - http://halstedthedocumentary.org/halsted.php
Peer reviewed read - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448951/

“He was one of the first surgeons to employ courtesy in surgery, to show any consideration for the insides of a man he was operating on. The old method was to slit a man from the chin down, take out his bowels, and spread them on a towel while you sorted them. Halsted held that if you touched an intestine with your finger you injured it and the patient suffered the effects of the injury. That was a new doctrine when he began.

Halsted introduced rubber gloves. He invented the technique of shutting off the area of operation, blocking it with shots of cocaine in the surrounding nerves so there would be less general shock. He was gentle and a little inhuman. He had to be because he was so sensitive.”

Thanks for that, interesting stuff.

[Penton-Man]

File under Retina vs. Guts (bowels)

“seeing is believing” and 4K tv interactive tutorials are beginning today at some Best Buy locations. Note to singhcr: Apple Valley made the list….http://www.bby.com/learn-why-4kultra...h-ultra-hd-tv/

A question for those geek-i-fied attending to ask the presenters (aside from 4K resolution and human visual acuity because as with consumers on audio/video forums, they do not have first hand expert experience in that field, like so - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...er#post8892838 ) is whether or not today’s top-of-the-line 4K LCD tvs have better *guts* than their comparable 1080p LCD counterparts. Meaning, are the panels themselves, the video processing, etc. being used for flagship 4K LCD tvs better than that offered for counterpart 1080p LCD TVs? As that may also be a contributing factor to the overwhelmingly positive results for viewing 4K in excellent but non-scientific tests like this – http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-re...1312153517.htm

But, all that said, despite the ‘root cause’, if in person, Best Buy customers can see the difference with their own eyes…..4K wins…..easily.