4K Movies Releases

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Working with 4K scans is one thing but what about the actual finish, my good man?

Doesn't really matter since the theatrical window is gone, but it means the information's there for a full fledged HDR 4K BD in the future, should Disney want it.

[Geoff D]

As long as the scans are archived (and they were oversampled at >4K to begin with), yeah.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Would that include 3D and HFR?

3D is alive and well theatrically. HFR was never pushed as a standard. Compare the ratio to HDR (Dolby Vision) releases to HFR.

Couldn't a studio delegate basically be anyone who works for the studio?

They would delegate who they currently delegate.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

3D is alive and well theatrically. HFR was never pushed as a standard. Compare the ratio to HDR (Dolby Vision) releases to HFR.

I remember that advocates for 3D and HFR made the same argument about directors having to get with the current times. And while 3D is sticking around most directors don't shoot their movies in 3D and instead they make the movie in 2D and than pass it off to the studio who gets a company to do a 3D conversion. I think that HDR has a lot of promise but it is also very new. Dynamic metadata systems for HDR are being developed, Dolby Vision movie theaters are very rare, and the studios haven't announced any plans to add HDR to the DCI standard.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

the studios haven't announced any plans to add HDR to the DCI standard.

Meanwhile they're building entire workflows (infrastructure) around it...

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

You mean everything in 4K. Can you, or anyone, name one U.K. production which had “an end to end 4k finish”, even simply claimed? Just one, mind you, with a reference of course (rather than an opinion).

P.S.
If I recall my London geography correctly, at least Chelsea folks having a bit of culture in them might be familiar with it.

What does the UK have to do with anything?

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

I saw Tomorrowland in dolby vision in the theater. When it comes out in HDR on bluray its going to be ten times brighter if I am understanding all this at all. Is my eyesight now going to notice more detail than in the theater?


Geoff, yes I think that's what I am asking because the original excerpt was talking about 100 nits as if it were a limitation of some kind and I don't really understand that. It sounds like somehow we will get more detail at home, which is amazing to think about.

It won't be ten times brighter. It will likely have the metadata that says what the peak brightness was of the mastering monitor. Since this was a Dolby Vision title, that will most likely be 4,000 nits. The average APL of the movie will probably be in the same range of what you saw theatrically, it will just have more dynamic range for color and highlights. People need to stop with this incessant talk of movies that are 10x brighter or more, that isn't how this works.

[infiniteCR]

Some parts will be 10x brighter based on that excerpt I was referencing. Something in the movie must go from 100 to 1000 nits surely? The information I'm reading here is telling me this extra brightness will result in more visual detail, reference Penton-Man's reply right with his example of visual acuity and dim tests versus brighter ones.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

Some parts will be 10x brighter based on that excerpt I was referencing. Something in the movie must go from 100 to 1000 nits surely? The information I'm reading here is telling me this extra brightness will result in more visual detail, reference Penton-Man's reply right with his example of visual acuity and dim tests versus brighter ones.

Highlights (think very small parts of the image that are already trying to be bright in the images you see today) may be brighter. Colors can be brighter overall because you have more dynamic range for color. This will make A LOT of difference in the picture as the 100 nit grading we are doing now put a serious cap on how bright any color can be within the signal.

But we are not talking about the whole image going up in brightness, you can do that with the TVs that have been on the market for years now. Detail will go up because you don't have to clip in brighter areas of the image anymore as you have more dynamic range within them. So you can now show fine details that are surrounded by highlights. We noticed a lot of them in the Dolby Vision version of Man of Steel while at the Spectracal labs.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Highlights (think very small parts of the image that are already trying to be bright in the images you see today) may be brighter. Colors can be brighter overall because you have more dynamic range for color. This will make A LOT of difference in the picture as the 100 nit grading we are doing now put a serious cap on how bright any color can be within the signal.

But we are not talking about the whole image going up in brightness, you can do that with the TVs that have been on the market for years now. Detail will go up because you don't have to clip in brighter areas of the image anymore as you have more dynamic range within them. So you can now show fine details that are surrounded by highlights. We noticed a lot of them in the Dolby Vision version of Man of Steel while at the Spectracal labs.

Man of steel was lacking dynamic range and colour for an artistic reason

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Highlights (think very small parts of the image that are already trying to be bright in the images you see today) may be brighter. Colors can be brighter overall because you have more dynamic range for color. This will make A LOT of difference in the picture as the 100 nit grading we are doing now put a serious cap on how bright any color can be within the signal.

But we are not talking about the whole image going up in brightness, you can do that with the TVs that have been on the market for years now. Detail will go up because you don't have to clip in brighter areas of the image anymore as you have more dynamic range within them. So you can now show fine details that are surrounded by highlights. We noticed a lot of them in the Dolby Vision version of Man of Steel while at the Spectracal labs.

Yes, and sometimes the intake almost looks darker because the hdr grading has cleaned up the blowout that happens in outdoor scenes. You see color instead of refections.

Kris what is your opinion on how the martian was rebuilt for 4k using the raw files? Good thing or same oled same ole?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

...Is my eyesight now going to notice more detail than in the theater?

Hmm…you tell me (us) after you’ve watched a Dolby Vision Blu-ray on your Dolby Vision TV as it might be better not to bias you or others one way or another with a preconceived notion as to which is *best* in your eyes….not to mention leaving open the possibility for some future robust theatrical vs. home viewing discussions.

Let’s just say for now that the perceived detail from display technology is not solely dependent upon a device's maximum luminance, as there are other contributing factors involved, e.g. compression of the shown content, pixel value in bits (bit depth), the inherent contrast ratio of the device, ambient lighting (mesopic vs. photopic vision), etc.

[Opips3]

I know mean outside real natural sun....bird....white snowing to my eye 100%.

Tv picture is not 100%. Now UHDTV 4K HDR give me real nature to my eye is 100%.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

...People need to stop with this incessant talk of movies that are 10x brighter or more, that isn't how this works.

Not that it applies to member infiniteCR, who I think understood my rough analogy, but what you say is also true and can’t be overemphasized.

Dolby scientists have long made a point of differentiating diffuse white (scene reflective white) from highlights (specular reflections and emissive light sources that are greater than diffuse white) in a comprehensive report to the international community at least as far back as Oct. 2012 in this ~ 80 page document submitted to Working Party 6C ….https://www.itu.int/md/R12-WP6C-C-0077/en .

And since that time, Dolby scientists have given several public presentations as well as publishing in several journals (SMPTE last year) reiterating the difference, but some in the consumer community as well as the journalistic blogger AV community seem to continue to equate speculars (thousand(s) nits with diffuse white (hundred nits).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Dolby scientists have long made a point of differentiating diffuse white (scene reflective white) from highlights (specular reflections and emissive light sources that are greater than diffuse white)...

Not to mention the value of deeper black levels.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

What does the UK have to do with anything?

Well to be more precise in this case, England. Mike, you live in England, right? Since that being the case, I was asking if you knew of one project which boasted an end-to-end production containing all imagery in the 4K realm. It’s just that I assumed you would be more familiar with what’s going on in your own country rather than any other country in the world, but perhaps no AV *journalists* ever did a write-up on that particular production , I don’t know, as I haven’t 'google' checked, but ratehr heard about it thru personal conversations/communications.

Geoff, do you know what I’m referring to? Think David Attenborough.

[Opips3]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

That's fact.

[infiniteCR]

Thanks everyone for helping inform me on what's going on.

[infiniteCR]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Highlights (think very small parts of the image that are already trying to be bright in the images you see today) may be brighter. Colors can be brighter overall because you have more dynamic range for color. This will make A LOT of difference in the picture as the 100 nit grading we are doing now put a serious cap on how bright any color can be within the signal.

But we are not talking about the whole image going up in brightness, you can do that with the TVs that have been on the market for years now. Detail will go up because you don't have to clip in brighter areas of the image anymore as you have more dynamic range within them. So you can now show fine details that are surrounded by highlights. We noticed a lot of them in the Dolby Vision version of Man of Steel while at the Spectracal labs.

I think I see where the extra detail comes from. The 100 nit grading for Dolby Vision theaters is causing the bright areas to "clip". At home this
"clipping" can be alleviated by using a grading with more capacity for higher nits allowing our eyes to see more of the fine details. Sounds great to me, but oh my how confusing the delivery of all this data is! Looking forward to seeing an example in my own home.


Thanks again.

[Spike M.]

I don't know what the nit level of my Vizio E-series is, but with the backlight at 60%, I think if the projector at my folks home on their 120 inch screen was that bright, I'd need sunglasses.

Trivial point being, the bigger the screen, the rougher on the eyes brightness gets, which is why there's somewhat of a happy marriage between 100 nits and a theatrical presentation.